The harp is a lie.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reika

On that note. I really wish there was a 'Disgaea online'. I would ditch ffxiv for that in a heartbeat!

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I'm right behind you on that one.

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Originally Posted by Galliano

Laughing my FA off!

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Decided to make this when I saw your comment. Enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Decided to make this when I saw your comment. Enjoy.

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Well done lol

I'd still like to point out a minor error in the whole 'bowharp' idealism.

How many harps have you seen that only have 4 strings?

How many harps have you seen that have strings THAT thick?

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Y'know what does have that many strings and they're that thick?

A bass guitar.

Does this now make it a bassbow?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Konachibi

I'd still like to point out a minor error in the whole 'bowharp' idealism.

How many harps have you seen that only have 4 strings?

How many harps have you seen that have strings THAT thick?

-----------------------------

Y'know what does have that many strings and they're that thick?

A bass guitar.

Does this now make it a bassbow?

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IRL? Nowhere. Doesn't exist. In-game? A harp (lyre) with that few strings of that level of thickness can easily be found by checking out the singing elezen within the MRD guild. Here, have a look at the DAT packet for it.

Ta-daaa.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

IRL? Nowhere. Doesn't exist. In-game? A harp (lyre) with that few strings of that level of thickness can easily be found by checking out the singing elezen within the MRD guild. Here, have a look at the DAT packet for it.

Ta-daaa.

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A seven stringed harp with strings as thick as shoe laces...

That things only going to be good for playing heavy metal tunes! ...... badly!

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Originally Posted by Konachibi

A seven stringed harp with strings as thick as shoe laces...

That things only going to be good for playing heavy metal tunes! ...... badly!

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If the strings were thinner, we wouldn't be able to see them when in-game, I think that's the point. Either way, they're not meant for playing classical masterpieces, just a scale and a few simple chords associated with it. I think that's all a good minstrel needs for a foundation on which to throw out a good tune. I'm sure Eorzeans aren't difficult to impress with music, not like they have iPods or anything for comparison. They're probably just happy to hear it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

If the strings were thinner, we wouldn't be able to see them when in-game, I think that's the point. Either way, they're not meant for playing classical masterpieces, just a scale and a few simple chords associated with it. I think that's all a good minstrel needs for a foundation on which to throw out a good tune. I'm sure Eorzeans aren't difficult to impress with music, not like they have iPods or anything for comparison. They're probably just happy to hear it.

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We can see threading detail on hempen and cotton cloth items so I don't think making the strings thinner would be a problem really. It'll all be down to how high you've got your resolution :3

Still, I'd expect a harp like that to sound more like a banjo. It'd be hard to play a whistfull dreamy melody on something that can be played along to Cotton-Eye Joe.

[QUOTE]Warning! FFXI Comparison Alert! (and Wall O' Text)

In XI you could unlock any and all Advanced Jobs upon reaching level 30. You just had to do 1 quest (although a multi-part quest in some cases) and once unlocked, you could play as that job. In other words a r30 White Mage could immediately become a Samurai.

Of course you would want to have War leveled for a good subjob instead of /gimp Whm but the point is that once a Job is unlocked, everyone was instantly that Job regardless of previous training.

At least in XIV it appears that you have to level the appropriate Class 1st that unlocks the Advanced Job for that Class. Gladiator ^ Paladin; Lancer ^ Dragoon; Marauder ^ Warrior; Pug ^ Monk, etc.

Now if the argument is that Bard is not the most logical Advanced Job for Archer...that certainly is debatable (which we are...debating). My personal opinion is that it may not be logical for Archer to become Bard, but it is logical for Bard to come from Archer (as opposed to the other "Starting Classes").

(In my lore) Archers tend to be solitary wanderers who learn the weaknesses of enemies and acquire "Hit & Run" tactics for survivability but also acquire "Debilitating Damage" techniques for grouping up with others when the need arises, whether it be the Archers need or the parties need.

I see Bards also as wanderers who gain much knowledge in their wide travels and learn to survive through Soothing Songs and Battle Cries which especially shine in Party situations. An Archer could certainly learn these "songs" in his many travels and encounters with various humanoids, Beastmen and monsters, further enhancing both his Survivability and Party Tactics.

Lore can always be written (or rewritten) to fit almost any scenario in a Fantasy World but we don't get to write it. We just either accept it or not, enjoy it or not and play the game or not. "Barcher" is not a gamebreaker for me...however...

I agree with others who wanted to see a new "Minstrel Class", (essentially a Bard) that advanced to Dancer/Puppetmaster/Beastmaster, but that is obviously not going to happen. We will get new Classes eventually though as well as new Jobs for those Classes in addition to Multiple Jobs for all Classes old & new...eventually.

I believe that all these changes will increase our options for solo and party play rather than limit them because in reality you only need 3 Jobs in any party... Tank, Healer, DD...everything else is just icing on the Sweet Rice Cake and almost any combination of 5 Classes and/or Jobs will fill a viable Party. And with the Class System remaining largely intact even a party missing a Paladin or a White Mage will still be viable with multi-ability Classes instead of Jobs.

Even an "Elite Party" consisting of Paladin, Warrior, Dragoon, Monk, White Mage, Black Mage, Bard will still have room for one jobless Class that will still be effective either as a backup to the weakest link or as an additional DD or healer. Parties will obviously prefer Jobs over Classes but if any 1 Job is not available, the other Classes will still be able to fill the role of the missing job through custom class abilities.

In XI if you did not have a Paladin and a White Mage you were pretty much screwed unless you had a Bard and massive DD to kill quickly (Yes, Ninja's could tank but it took alot of effort on the rest of the PT to work).

In XIV (it seems to me) they are giving us many more options to create an effective party for any circumstance. The Class-Ability Armoury System will continue to shine no matter how many Jobs they introduce because Classes will always be able to fill whatever "Role/Job" is missing and if you are not needed to fill a Role, then you are free to be what you want to be (as long as you're not just leeching).

Summation of long incoherent boring post: I like the concept of Jobs built on top of Classes as I think it increases personal choice and increases party based adaptability. But of course, we will see and I'm sure adjustments will be made to imbalances in the system....Oh and I like Barcher whether it makes sense or not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Konachibi

How many harps have you seen that only have 4 strings?

How many harps have you seen that have strings THAT thick?

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http://www.acoustics-engineering.com..._with_lyre.jpg
http://www.historyforkids.org/learn/...tures/lyre.jpg
http://www.eleonoravulpiani.com/lire/mosaico%202.jpg
http://www.zeldawiki.org/images/7/71/Medli_TWW.png

There are actually probably 5 or 6 strings on it. The 5th string could be hidden behind the top "bow" part on the intrument, and the 6th might be the bowstring itself when folded. Whatever the case, it's an artistic interpretation of an instrument and as such is up for iconic simplification.

The problem is not that bard comes from archer... it's that when you change to bard it takes the place of your archer.

If it was just that you needed to level archer to a certain point to unlock bard and then you leveled bard I would care far less. But you unlock bard.. and it can immediately take the place of your archer. For those people who have archer at 50, they are going to effectively have bard at 50 too.

You can level as nothing but archer and your bard progresses too. That is what creates dissonance with me. You don't ever have to pick up a harp to know how to use it.

Yeah, your level 30 white mage in ffxi could unlock bard or samurai or ninja... but once unlocked, you started those jobs at level one and you had to level them up for them to be effective... You didn't hit level 30 and magically get a brand new role to play that was also level 30.

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Originally Posted by Ferth

when you change to bard it takes the place of your archer.

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That's a very bold claim to make. Citation needed?

I was under the impression that "Jobs" were a set of quests that gave you access to abilities and traits that would otherwise have been left unavailable to you, thereby specializing and strengthening your class.

Where are you getting your info? o.0

Where does it say jobs are a set of quests? I've not seen this information either.

From what Yoshi has said regarding jobs they don't have a rank or a level associated with them, they don't progress. They are supposed to be a more restrictive skill set for a class designed to be used in parties. As such, archers who have bard can either play as Archer, or they can play as Bard, either way they gain levels for the archer class.

If anyone has seen information contrary to this, by all means, please share.

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Originally Posted by Ferth

Where does it say jobs are a set of quests? I've not seen this information either.

From what Yoshi has said regarding jobs they don't have a rank or a level associated with them, they don't progress. They are supposed to be a more restrictive skill set for a class designed to be used in parties. As such, archers who have bard can either play as Archer, or they can play as Bard, either way they gain levels for the archer class.

If anyone has seen information contrary to this, by all means, please share.

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He alluded to such when we (GamerEscape) were granted an interview back in July.

Gamer Escape: Currently each class has a guild where they can use marks to upgrade their class etc. How will the new Job System tie into the guilds?

Yoshida-san: The methods of upgrading your class and the methods of upgrading your jobs will follow different paths. We plan to make it so guild marks do not exert a direct affect on jobs. For jobs, we plan on upgrading them via quests known as specialized trials.

If you haven't read the interview over, please check it out. ^u^

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Originally Posted by Ferth

.... But you unlock bard.. and it can immediately take the place of your archer. For those people who have archer at 50, they are going to effectively have bard at 50 too.

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Except that they stated "..you do not level Jobs..", so you are probably never really a r50 Bard but rather an r50 Archer with whatever Bard Abilities are available from r30, although I suspect that there will be extra abilities your Job can learn as you progress on the Archer Class Quests every 10 levels or so. Will the r50's magically have all the abilities as soon as the patch goes live? Perhaps but I am betting they will still have to complete some quests (easy for r50's) to unlock all the abilities.

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Originally Posted by Ferth

...You can level as nothing but archer and your bard progresses too. That is what creates dissonance with me. You don't ever have to pick up a harp to know how to use it.

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Well, I would guess that you have to pick up the Harp and learn to use it when you do the quest that unlocks it.

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Originally Posted by Ferth

...Yeah, your level 30 white mage in ffxi could unlock bard or samurai or ninja... but once unlocked, you started those jobs at level one and you had to level them up for them to be effective... You didn't hit level 30 and magically get a brand new role to play that was also level 30.

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Again..the new Job is not r30 but rather your r30 Archer has now unlocked some new abilities (Bard Abilities) and will likely unlock more upon r40, r50, etc by completing the required quests. Even current r50's will probably have to do these quests to unlock the new abilities.

I understand your concerns because if not done delicately, it could all be a disaster but I try to have some faith that the Devs are not complete morons and that they will have a workable, logical progression for new characters/players. The r50's unfortunately just get a "me so sorry" for leveling their classes beyond new content recommendations. That is why I stopped leveling my Archer and just do a little gathering/crafting to maintain my once-a-month requirement for venting on these forums.

Hmm. Thanks for finding that for me. That atleast gives me a little hope for jobs, though from other information Yoshi has given job level is still the same as that of the class that unlocks it.

I'd still like more information regarding this, especially given how simple quests have been in the game so far.

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Originally Posted by Davorok

...

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Your tone says arguing... but your points are really the same as my points.

Thanks to anonymoose for the link and the quote from Yoshi about Job upgrades.

But a level 30 archer with the bard job activated however you choose to say it is still a level 30 character, and now we get back to the bigger issue of bard skills and archer skills not being overly compatible. You are contradicting your point about archer unlocking bard... because now it isn't unlocking bard and you can choose one or the other... you are an archer and suddenly you start playing the harp too... they are completely different skill sets.

And that's the crux of the debate, and the crux of my dissatisfaction with the proposed job system. Right now I can turn my gladiator into a pseudo paladin, I can learn protect, shell, cure, I can distribute my attributes so I have a decent MP pool. In practice I'm functioning as a paladin.

If they are going to add the job paladin I'd like it to rely on the class system more than just getting gladiator to a certain level and doing a quest. It makes sense that if I level up Gladiator and level up Conjurer I can take skills from both of those classes to unlock the paladin job.

If they are going to add instrument use to the game I'd much rather see them implementing the class system to do it. Introduce a minstrel or a musician class and then have it be one of the required classes to unlock the bard job... if another of those classes happens to be archer that's ok.

Here I thought we were all on the same page on Jobs if we were discussing Barcher in such detail.

It is indeed as a few others have said before me. From what little we know so far, a Job will in fact be something you explicitly unlock. It is not simply extra abilities for Archer. You will, in some fashion, have the ability to switch into a Bard. The level of the job will be based on the level of the class that it is linked to. However, in a similar fashion to how classes gain access to new skills via guild marks, jobs will gain access to new skills via special quests.

So simply put, even a rank 50 Archer will not be a fully developed Bard just by unlocking it, but will have to do numerous quests to gain further abilities.

How I expect Jobs to play out is once you unlock the job itself, you receive some starter gear, such as starter weapons, for said job. They clearly appear to be specialized. It is known that the level to unlock jobs will not be 50, so whatever starter gear one gets would be at the level of the quest that unlocks it - leaving further room to develop the job since you will want the highest level job-specific gear. It only makes sense to me, because I can't imagine Archers simply turning their Crab Bows into lyres after unlocking a Bard. It would also be equally silly if you unlocked the Job and could not switch to it.

In any case, there isn't much known about Jobs as it is clear they do not want to say too much about them just yet. Much too early to pass judgement on the job system overall at this point.

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Originally Posted by Ferth

And that's the crux of the debate, and the crux of my dissatisfaction with the proposed job system. Right now I can turn my gladiator into a pseudo paladin, I can learn protect, shell, cure, I can distribute my attributes so I have a decent MP pool. In practice I'm functioning as a paladin.

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This actually popped up in my linkshell today when we were watching our main tank solo Slithery Sykes.
He has cure, protect, shell, sacrifice and a whole range of other buff + heal spells, and his armour looks very 'paladiny'. So as we watched him we began thinking:
"Since jobs won't be able to use seperate class abilities (e.g/ Paladins unable to use Pugilist skills etc.) what will a Paladin, or any other job for that matter, possess that would give a player a good reason to want to use that job over operating a hybrid class?"

The only real answer is if they introduce dungeons that simply aren't doable using hybrid classes. For example giving a Paladin an ability that let's it increase it's defence by 100% so it can take the damage a dungeon enemy would throw at it, that a Gladiator couldn't survive against since it would lack the ability.

The only way they can make jobs a usable function really is to make content 'too hard for hybrids'.

Just my thoughts on that bit >.>'

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Originally Posted by Konachibi

This actually popped up in my linkshell today when we were watching our main tank solo Slithery Sykes.
He has cure, protect, shell, sacrifice and a whole range of other buff + heal spells, and his armour looks very 'paladiny'. So as we watched him we began thinking:
"Since jobs won't be able to use seperate class abilities (e.g/ Paladins unable to use Pugilist skills etc.) what will a Paladin, or any other job for that matter, possess that would give a player a good reason to want to use that job over operating a hybrid class?"

The only real answer is if they introduce dungeons that simply aren't doable using hybrid classes. For example giving a Paladin an ability that let's it increase it's defence by 100% so it can take the damage a dungeon enemy would throw at it, that a Gladiator couldn't survive against since it would lack the ability.

The only way they can make jobs a usable function really is to make content 'too hard for hybrids'.

Just my thoughts on that bit >.>'

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The thing with classes as they are is once you level up most if not all of them to cap or near cap with all the cross-classing you can do, every job becomes solo-viable. Some more than others, of course, but overall the classes become meshed together. Jobs, however, are much more about clearly defined roles and specialization.

The idea behind Jobs is that equipping it will make you very proficient at a certain duty, but not useful at much else.

A Paladin will be amazing at taking hits and keeping hate. It will be all about survival and protection. It won't be able to kill efficiently at all.

A White Mage will be a master of cures and recovery skills, but like the Paladin will not have any offensive use.

Black Mage is a glass cannon. It can dish out amazing hurt, but only if someone else is there to take the hate.

The way the Armoury system is, anyone can be anything on any class almost. Except, to keep this in check, they have it designed so you still cannot effectively specialize. Class balance would go out the window.

Therefore a Paladin will have the stats, gear and skill to tank much better than a Gladiator with all the proper skills equipped now. If that is not the case, Jobs would be pointless. However, a Gladiator would be a DPS machine compared to a Paladin.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

The thing with classes as they are is once you level up most if not all of them to cap or near cap with all the cross-classing you can do, every job becomes solo-viable. Some more than others, of course, but overall the classes become meshed together. Jobs, however, are much more about clearly defined roles and specialization.

The idea behind Jobs is that equipping it will make you very proficient at a certain duty, but not useful at much else.

A Paladin will be amazing at taking hits and keeping hate. It will be all about survival and protection. It won't be able to kill efficiently at all.

A White Mage will be a master of cures and recovery skills, but like the Paladin will not have any offensive use.

Black Mage is a glass cannon. It can dish out amazing hurt, but only if someone else is there to take the hate.

The way the Armoury system is, anyone can be anything on any class almost. Except, to keep this in check, they have it designed so you still cannot effectively specialize. Class balance would go out the window.

Therefore a Paladin will have the stats, gear and skill to tank much better than a Gladiator with all the proper skills equipped now. If that is not the case, Jobs would be pointless. However, a Gladiator would be a DPS machine compared to a Paladin.

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That's what I was getting at. Unless they make content harder so that players will have to play Paladins to do content because a Gladiator couldn't survive it, there'd be no reason to be a Paladin in the first place, people would still go with Captain Healytank.

It's funny how they have to create all these loopholes and contingencies just to make up for their stupid decision of combining a bard (which should be a class) with an archer to make a new job. It's like a carwreck that's been cellotaped together in a bid to seem road-worthy.

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Originally Posted by Ferth

Your tone says arguing... but your points are really the same as my points.

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I prefer the term "Conversation" rather than "Arguing" (I just tend to ramble so I like to multi-quote). Your points are good valid points. That is why I feel the need to attempt to respond with where I think they are going. I wish I had solid info to base my theories on but it is a mixture of 33% Speculation, 33% Observation, 33% Flatulation (BS) and 1% Verification (truth).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ferth

And that's the crux of the debate, and the crux of my dissatisfaction with the proposed job system. Right now I can turn my gladiator into a pseudo paladin, I can learn protect, shell, cure, I can distribute my attributes so I have a decent MP pool. In practice I'm functioning as a paladin.

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I think it comes down to the basic human desire to feel needed. With the old Class System, anyone could tank...literally anyone. People also want to feel special, that they are really good at something which means better than someone else.
So now we are getting Jobs that are specialized and probably better at a Role.
That still doesn't phase out Classes though because almost anyone can still tank and almost anyone can still heal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ferth

If they are going to add the job paladin I'd like it to rely on the class system more than just getting gladiator to a certain level and doing a quest. It makes sense that if I level up Gladiator and level up Conjurer I can take skills from both of those classes to unlock the paladin job.

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I agree with this. I feel to unlock Paladin you should have to level Gad AND Con to r30. I think they should require 2 Classes to r30 for each Job. They could have introduced new Classes (like Minstrel and Arcanist) to make this viable. Sort of a spin on the old XI subjob system but rather than becoming a hybrid, you become a Job.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ferth

If they are going to add instrument use to the game I'd much rather see them implementing the class system to do it. Introduce a minstrel or a musician class and then have it be one of the required classes to unlock the bard job... if another of those classes happens to be archer that's ok.

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Agreed. And introduce Arcanist Class to unlock jobs that use magic.

Maybe all of you are looking at the bow wrong. Maybe it's not a harp at all. I've heard a few people say that the "harp" on the bow may be simply a quiver attached to the bow to hold a few arrows, and they may just be aesthetic... However, when i look at the bow I don't see those arrows (not a harp) being for looks at all. There is a REASON they're shorter than the normal arrow, and I will show you why I think that is, below.

Crappy MS Paint Depiction

Now, they have already confirmed the bow does in fact transform, but I'm thinking we all have been coming up with the wrong ideas of how that happens. What I think this "harp" which happens to clearly have fletchings and arrow heads on the "strings" flips down, into a platform that holds 4 additional, smaller arrows. Then when the string is released, it hits some sort of firing mechanism in the center of the arm that folds down, and launches these additional arrows. In other words, i think archer is going to be getting more AOE potential once the jobs hit. I don't think each of these arrows will hit the same target, but any target in a cone before them when using basic attacks like Light Shot and Heavy Shot.

My opinion on the matter is that the "transformation" will be entering AoE mode, or Single target firing mode.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MeowMeow

Maybe all of you are looking at the bow wrong. Maybe it's not a harp at all. I've heard a few people say that the "harp" on the bow may be simply a quiver attached to the bow to hold a few arrows, and they may just be aesthetic... However, when i look at the bow I don't see those arrows (not a harp) being for looks at all. There is a REASON they're shorter than the normal arrow, and I will show you why I think that is, below.

Crappy MS Paint Depiction

Now, they have already confirmed the bow does in fact transform, but I'm thinking we all have been coming up with the wrong ideas of how that happens. What I think this "harp" which happens to clearly have fletchings and arrow heads on the "strings" flips down, into a platform that holds 4 additional, smaller arrows. Then when the string is released, it hits some sort of firing mechanism in the center of the arm that folds down, and launches these additional arrows. In other words, i think archer is going to be getting more AOE potential once the jobs hit. I don't think each of these arrows will hit the same target, but any target in a cone before them when using basic attacks like Light Shot and Heavy Shot.

My opinion on the matter is that the "transformation" will be entering AoE mode, or Single target firing mode.

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So that would make the Archer job.......what?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MeowMeow

Maybe all of you are looking at the bow wrong. Maybe it's not a harp at all. I've heard a few people say that the "harp" on the bow may be simply a quiver attached to the bow to hold a few arrows, and they may just be aesthetic... However, when i look at the bow I don't see those arrows (not a harp) being for looks at all. There is a REASON they're shorter than the normal arrow, and I will show you why I think that is, below.

Crappy MS Paint Depiction

Now, they have already confirmed the bow does in fact transform, but I'm thinking we all have been coming up with the wrong ideas of how that happens. What I think this "harp" which happens to clearly have fletchings and arrow heads on the "strings" flips down, into a platform that holds 4 additional, smaller arrows. Then when the string is released, it hits some sort of firing mechanism in the center of the arm that folds down, and launches these additional arrows. In other words, i think archer is going to be getting more AOE potential once the jobs hit. I don't think each of these arrows will hit the same target, but any target in a cone before them when using basic attacks like Light Shot and Heavy Shot.

My opinion on the matter is that the "transformation" will be entering AoE mode, or Single target firing mode.

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It transforms into a lyre/harp. Much more evidence to suggest that then some auto-multishot bow idea.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Let's look at what the lyre/bow theory has going for it:

1. Bard is one of the jobs that were announced by SE in an interview months ago. Although it wasn't certain they were the initial 7, being that the cover clearly displays the other 6 quite obviously, it is safe to assume that those are the initial release. By process of elimination, Bard is left for Archer.
2. Mages are getting BLM and WHM, and are therefore taken up based on SE's announcement of there initially being 1 job per class. Bard must go to a DoW. Out of all of them, coupled with this controversial cover art, it is logical to connect the bow to the lyre. As far as DoW weapons resembling musical instruments go, Archer takes the cake.
3. Archer has the highest base MP pool out of the DoW.
4. Latest response by community rep confirms the bow is a weapon that transforms.

If someone is going to argue against the bow/lyre theory, instead of making it based on denial or personal opinion how about they show some game-related facts that support their notion?

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Do not try and play the harp. That's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth.
What truth?
There is no harp.
There's no harp?
Then you'll see that is is not the harp that gets played, it is only yourself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Resheph

Do not try and play the harp. That's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth.
What truth?
There is no harp.
There's no harp?
Then you'll see that is is not the harp that gets played, it is only yourself.

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That was in a movie!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

It transforms into a lyre/harp. Much more evidence to suggest that then some auto-multishot bow idea.

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Wrong, entirely.

Evidence against a harp:

-No harp ever made has strings that are all the same length
-No harp ever made used "rivets" which people claim the arrowheads are, to hold strings in place. Never. They use brass spool-like things, and it has always been brass because they make better sounds.
-No harp has the spools for adjustment at the bottom half of the harp, which people are suggesting the arrowheads are. They are always at the top, front side. For ease of use, and to ensure they dont get bumped when youre setting the harp down.
-Most harps dont have strings all of equal thickness. They get gradually thicker as they go just like a guitar.
-No harp has ARROW FLETCHINGS at the top of it ON THE STRINGS.
-No harp has ARROW HEADS.
-No harp is attached to a freakin' bow.

-if it was a lyre, every string would always be different thicknesses to produce different sounds. No exceptions.

I can't stop laughing at the insane amount of people that are trying to apply real world musical instrument construction rules to A VIDEOGAME SET IN A FANTASY WORLD WITH DRAGONS AND BEAST PEOPLE.

Seriously.

To the OP: I agree with poster 3 or 4, can't remember who it was. But they said it was a mix of a harp/musical instrument, and a bow/crossbow of some sort. TO me, that's freaking awesome! And given the way FF does things, I think it's completely reasonable and a realistic guess. It has my vote

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MeowMeow

Wrong, entirely.

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Personally, I wholly disregard the opinion of anyone who puts forth their speculation as a violently defended fact. Have you read back through the thread and seen the image I posted of the Bow in "expanded," and "collapsed" mode compared to the image of the harp that already exists in the game? Even the DAT Art Packet for the already existent bard harp (clearly visible in the Marauder's Guild) breaks most of the "rules" you just created.

I'm sorry your mind can't wrap itself around the idea that sometimes, in fantasy worlds, real world standards are not maintained. It doesn't have to make sense, it just has to be fun. It might very well be a bow-harp, and I think it probably is. Does that mean I'm claiming that there's no way that the bow could collapse into that shape, be held horizontally, and fire 5 crossbow bolts at a time? Not at all.
It could be anything - they do look like little arrows just as much as they do locks and swivels for strings. The image is very ambiguous with the little details.

Where were you naysayers when FFXI introduced airships? "BUT THOSE PROPELLERS COULD NEVER LIFT A SHIP OF THAT SIZE! F##K THIS GAME, IT'S GOING IN A TERRIBLE DIRECTION! BOOOO!"

Next thing you guys know, SE will be coming up with various types of gunweapons from blades to lances, big ass flightless yellow birds, and little squirrel things with rubies on their foreheads.

That'd be so stupid.

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Originally Posted by MeowMeow

Wrong, entirely.

Evidence against a harp:

-No harp ever made has strings that are all the same length
-No harp ever made used "rivets" which people claim the arrowheads are, to hold strings in place. Never. They use brass spool-like things, and it has always been brass because they make better sounds.
-No harp has the spools for adjustment at the bottom half of the harp, which people are suggesting the arrowheads are. They are always at the top, front side. For ease of use, and to ensure they dont get bumped when youre setting the harp down.
-Most harps dont have strings all of equal thickness. They get gradually thicker as they go just like a guitar.
-No harp has ARROW FLETCHINGS at the top of it ON THE STRINGS.
-No harp has ARROW HEADS.
-No harp is attached to a freakin' bow.

-if it was a lyre, every string would always be different thicknesses to produce different sounds. No exceptions.

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Notice how all the evidence I put up for pro-harp/lyre is based on actual dev posts and confirmed information as well as in-game facts whereas your evidence is just a bunch of facts about real-life harps. Not to mention what you see as "arrowheads" is simply negative space - look at the shape again.

Comparing to a real-life harp design is silly once you wrap your head around the idea that this design is meant to transform into and from a bow. The idea of comparing real life design to how it is represented in-game is silly. There is something called iconic simplification - often used in video games and other artwork:

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Originally Posted by Gramul

http://www.acoustics-engineering.com..._with_lyre.jpg
http://www.historyforkids.org/learn/...tures/lyre.jpg
http://www.eleonoravulpiani.com/lire/mosaico%202.jpg
http://www.zeldawiki.org/images/7/71/Medli_TWW.png

There are actually probably 5 or 6 strings on it. The 5th string could be hidden behind the top "bow" part on the intrument, and the 6th might be the bowstring itself when folded. Whatever the case, it's an artistic interpretation of an instrument and as such is up for iconic simplification.

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@MeowMeow: Nice try. I wouldn't start my post with "Wrong, entirely." though. In this case, it's quite ironic.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Personally, I wholly disregard the opinion of anyone who puts forth their speculation as a violently defended fact. Have you read back through the thread and seen the image I posted of the Bow in "expanded," and "collapsed" mode compared to the image of the harp that already exists in the game? Even the DAT Art Packet for the already existent bard harp (clearly visible in the Marauder's Guild) breaks most of the "rules" you just created.

I'm sorry your mind can't wrap itself around the idea that sometimes, in fantasy worlds, real world standards are not maintained. It doesn't have to make sense, it just has to be fun. It might very well be a bow-harp, and I think it probably is. Does that mean I'm claiming that there's no way that the bow could collapse into that shape, be held horizontally, and fire 5 crossbow bolts at a time? Not at all.
It could be anything - they do look like little arrows just as much as they do locks and swivels for strings. The image is very ambiguous with the little details.

Where were you naysayers when FFXI introduced airships? "BUT THOSE PROPELLERS COULD NEVER LIFT A SHIP OF THAT SIZE! F#@K THIS GAME, IT'S GOING IN A TERRIBLE DIRECTION! BOOOO!"

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Now now moose, take a chill pill, eat some grass, relax, were all friends here, no need for such profane language, I suggest you edit it before a Mod gets whiff of your profanity.

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Originally Posted by Colino

I can't stop laughing at the insane amount of people that are trying to apply real world musical instrument construction rules to A VIDEOGAME SET IN A FANTASY WORLD WITH DRAGONS AND BEAST PEOPLE.

Seriously.

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no joke, this has gotten out of hand. We're even talking about how many strings the harp/lyre in question is drawn with? hell in 4 warriors of light the harp weapons have 3 strings. Its to get the point across....

Whether it's a bow or a harp or some kind of amazing redesign of a fishing net, there's one simple thing that people are ignoring whilst shouting their "real harps/lyres don't do this" pieces:

Final FANTASY XIV

I will also admit I got mixed into that crowd during the spur of the moment and 'harped' on about what a harp/lyre looks like in reality, but then it only took one look at the game case to remind why reality means so little in this game.

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Originally Posted by AsterBarnivere

Now now moose, take a chill pill, eat some grass, relax, were all friends here, no need for such profane language, I suggest you edit it before a Mod gets whiff of your profanity.

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B---butbut.... but ...
but that outburst was calculated and purpouseful... [sniffles and eats his grass]

You're right about the f-bomb, though. Usually I remember to censor those, lol. (Might wanna do that in your quote as well).

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Originally Posted by Colino

I can't stop laughing at the insane amount of people that are trying to apply real world musical instrument construction rules to A VIDEOGAME SET IN A FANTASY WORLD WITH DRAGONS AND BEAST PEOPLE.

Seriously.

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I can't stop laughing when people make stupid comments like this about the game with the most realistic armor and weapon designs. This game's armor and weapon designs are far less fantasy than every major MMO out there.

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Originally Posted by MeowMeow

I can't stop laughing when people make stupid comments like this about the game with the most realistic armor and weapon designs. This game's armor and weapon designs are far less fantasy than every major MMO out there.

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And so is our ability to shoot fireballs, magically heal wounds and make arrows glow bright purple before firing them from bows.

mmm, realism...