Stop the Grind-to-the-Endgame madness!

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

I follow a reallllllly simple concept. If a game isn't fun I *gasp* don't play it.
So instead of making an MMO where you have fun while you play you find it okay to have fun at the end?

I cannot even fathom how one would come to such a conclusion. It defies everything a game (made to entertain, mind you) stands for.
Would you buy a single player game that bores you to tears because the last 10% are finally worth being played?

Gamers really have changed then within the last decade and not for the better from my point of view.

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The truth is that "end game" is a lie. For most people it is far from the end of the game, they're probably going to spend 70% of their time at level cap vs the journey of 1-49. That is why there is such an emphasis on the "end game" in MMOs.

I think it's funny how someone else can post this. but if Rokien did it we'd all punch him in the face because he's a douche.


anyway.

The only low-level content I think is really needed is story. Having a couple different story arcs would be ideal, then you could level a couple different jobs going through the story. or maybe have more class story quests.

A couple of low level, level capped instances would be awesome. I'd love toto-rak if it was capped. but it's not so it's basically a 'lets farm GC seals'

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

And instead of speeding up the process we should reward MMO developers who actually care for the journey as much as the destination.

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Kay, I don't see the conflict here.

SWTOR had a good pacing of leveling and it filled that leveling process full of content. The problem there was the endgame severely lacked and there was no feeling of reward of going back and helping those leveling multiple characters or just leveling slower.

As an alternative, we could implement a system where you opt out of a portion of your experience for some other reward, like more gil, GC seals, or something that would reward a player more in a different area, by leveling more slowly. Sort of an Opt Out for quick EXP gains.

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Originally Posted by Onisake

I think it's funny how someone else can post this. but if Rokien did it we'd all punch him in the face because he's a douche.

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Roiken is beligerant to anyone who disagrees with him. He also posts an insane number of threads purely out of the desire to garner attention and tumbs ups for striking popular ideas, which he then attempts to take personal credit for. He's earned his reputation.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Roiken is beligerant to anyone who disagrees with him. He also posts an insane number of threads purely out of the desire to garner attention and tumbs ups for striking popular ideas, which he then attempts to take personal credit for. He's earned his reputation.

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He also wants more grind and for it to last longer and require groups.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Roiken is beligerant to anyone who disagrees with him. He also posts an insane number of threads purely out of the desire to garner attention and tumbs ups for striking popular ideas, which he then attempts to take personal credit for. He's earned his reputation.

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ehhh, having been on the internet for a number of years, i don't think he is beligerant as much as very strong in his opinions. seeing some people argue about nothing on 4chan has made me pretty immune to that kind of thing. He's a douche. we all know it. but some of the stuff he says i agree with, regardless of who started it and who he stole the idea from. if its something i like i'll throw my support behind it.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

He also wants more grind and for it to last longer and require groups.

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some people like grind. NA players generally don't. he's in the minority. let him ask for it. it's not like SE is going to add it in just to please him. they'll do it because the majority of the playerbase is asking for it, or it's the direction they want to take the game.

i do not mind requiring groups. as long as there is incentive for repeating. this is not a solo game. most content should require groups.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

I, too, was surprised at FF XIII's sales numbers.

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I don't recall FFXIII ever boring me.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Seeming the basis of your argument hinges on this assumption that all classes level at the speed of Thamaturge, which could be considered a class balance issue, not a leveling speed issue. I'm going to have a much tougher time respecting the full of your statements. I will, however, go back and still break your reply down into the bullet points I wish to respond to.

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Every Thaumaturge I've seen grinding for about the same number of hours has always leveled faster than other classes, especially before those classes get their AoE's. On top of that their spells hit harder than most abilities. Duoing Thaumaturges can be unbelievably fast -- in a 3-Fire to kill situation in a mob-dense area, you can tag up to 6 enemies with the lower damage caster going first; threat switches to second caster, and then back to third, playing ping-pong with the whole group of mobs. Many of these areas will even respawn a third to two thirds their population at once as soon as the last mob is slain. They get AoE-fest strategy of grinding from level 10 on.

If that were all my leveling experience was based on, I'd find it to have gone ridiculously fast. (If. This is not related to Jynx's opinion specifically seeing as I have no idea what other classes he has leveled.)

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Originally Posted by Velhart

I don't recall FFXIII ever boring me.

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This is the XIV community, you're not allowed to:

A. Like FFXI
B. Like FFXIII
C. Like FFXIII-2
D. Say FFVII was bad in any way
E. Want the game to succeed by not being a clone of an MMO most people are tired of seeing re-released every few years.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Every Thaumaturge I've seen grinding for about the same number of hours has always leveled faster than other classes, especially before they get their AoE's. On top of that their spells hit harder than most abilities. Duoing Thaumaturges can be unbelievably fast -- in a 3-Fire to kill situation in a mob-dense area, you can tag up to 6 enemies with the lower damage caster going first; threat switches to second caster, and then back to third, playing ping-pong with the whole group of mobs. Many of these areas will even respawn a third to two thirds their population at once as soon as the last mob is slain. They get AoE-fest strategy of grinding from level 10 on.

If that were all my leveling experience was based on, I'd find it to have gone ridiculously fast. (If. This is not related to Jynx's opinion specifically seeing as I have no idea what other classes he has leveled.)

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That would then be a balance issue with Thaumaturges - which isn't uprising. I've been toting around the opinion that their AoE spread damage should get toned down a bit or have a greater expense for a while now. (Or even maybe an XP penalty if we're concerned with impact on raid performance.) It's the primary reason why grind parties and leveling is considered too fast, and if its broken down to more reasonable levels then we'll see a bit more balance.

There just does not seem to be enough magical resistance in this game. Tough mobs, or pinpoint enemies that are highly physically resitant, yeah, I can see a merit for having such a quick weakness to magic. But cannon fodder? I just feel like those should be able to reduce magical damage when they're in large groups, like how Garuda's Plumes are.

But that's just one idea and one opinion. I'm sure there are other solutions.


Elexia, your Hyperbole is showing, better tuck that in before someone actually believes you.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

That would then be a balance issue with Thaumaturges - which isn't uprising. I've been toting around the opinion that their AoE spread damage should get toned down a bit or have a greater expense for a while now. (Or even maybe an XP penalty if we're concerned with impact on raid performance.) It's the primary reason why grind parties and leveling is considered too fast, and if its broken down to more reasonable levels then we'll see a bit more balance.

But that's just one idea and one opinion. I'm sure there are other solutions.

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Well, it's a really simple solution that goes a long way. Just adding some spread-damage mechanics instead of duplicating it for all AoEs would go a long way in reducing the huge advantage of AoE attacks. Keep them strong, just not let them act like some manner of a industrial size woodchipper where mobs are brought it on conveyor belts.

That said, the next obvious connection becomes "what other purpose can AoE serve other than damage?", which then turns to the creation of more interesting mechanics, and upon seeing the large possibilities for more fun and tactical gameplay but also the work involved, SE may refuse to touch the subject at all.