G-give it Back T---T; !!

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Originally Posted by Deo14

I said "pretty much unanimously", yet you somehow made whole argument that I was saying that every 100% of players agrees with it. Also, there was other person in the thread who wanted those links, so just link it not for me, but for her? And yes, I don't want those links in good faith, I know I'll just laugh reading them, just like you wanted links for my data back in "Just quit" thread in a bad faith, except that I did give them to you, and then you discredited them.

Just some interesting info for others - this guy doesn't even have leveled SAM.

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Why are you trying to bring this up here? We already have a thread talking about it here: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6314748

I get you're desperate to try and discredit me and/or get some people on your side, but that thread's in the DPS forum where "Kaiten removal was bad" is almost unanimously held. It's the one place on the planet that is so. You have even LESS support here, nd if you aren't careful, you're going to entice people like Awesome and Twinpeaks to go there to harass you more.

I already answered the question:

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Originally Posted by Renathras

I WASN'T TALKING TO YOU. THIS IS THE POST I WAS TALKING TO:
(Ggwppino)

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Something you seem to have a problem understanding: Not everything is about you. People in threads you happen to be in talk to people who aren't you.

The "argument" came about because me pointing out - to someone else who wasn't you - that opposition to Kaiten's removal wasn't unanimous was somehow heresy to you and you had to butt into the conversation and accuse me of moving goal posts. When I pointed out to you that was literally the conversation we were having, you tried to make the conversation about you. Then you made mocking "posts of meaningless things" quotes, a crying gif, tried to bring up past discussions to disparage me, etc, while not admitting the fact you made a mistake and were wrong.

And I did, in fact, provide links for her. In the post I just linked here.

Unlike you, I don't lie and breath Kaiten, so I don't save every last link. So I just did a google search of Reddit and found people dissenting, found people IN THIS VERY THREAD doing so, and even some YouTube folks saying so.

GET OVER IT.

You keep going on these unhinged rants and trying to spread this garbage dirty laundry all over different parts of the forum, including referencing past threads to disparage me over instead of sticking with the topic, going on and on about technicalities, all while accusing ME of not wanting to stick to the topic and being snippy about technicalities.

Someone doesn't have to have leveled SAM...to be able to say that OPPOSITION TO KAITEN'S REMOVAL IS NOT UNIVERSAL ON THE PLANET AND THERE ARE PEOPLE ON FORUMS AND COMMENT SECTIONS THAT DO NOT SHARE YOUR VIEWPOINT.

That doesn't take a 90 SAM, it only takes being ABLE TO READ.

Stop being insufferable and just take the L.

.

EDIT:

I don't want to call you out like this, but you JUST. WON'T. STOP.

And the WORST part is?

You're doing this to a person literally saying/arguing FOR KAITEN'S RETURN!!!! Someone who is saying THEY WANT YOU TO GET WHAT YOU WANT!! For the love of Zodiark, TAKE YES FOR AN ANSWER ALREADY!!!!!!!

If anything, you should be fighting with the people here (and in that thread) openly mocking you and saying they hope you never get Kaiten back. They actually are opposing you. YOU just want to rag on and disparage me personally.

...I'm almost honored I live so rent free in your head that there are TWO things you will go after any time: Me and Kaiten. I feel so loved. <3

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Originally Posted by Renathras

I WASN'T TALKING TO YOU. THIS IS THE POST I WAS TALKING TO:

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So why did you respond to me with 5 essays if you weren't talking about me? Curious that you changed your argument to this right after I disproved even your attempt at gotcha with technicalities.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

You're doing this to a person literally saying/arguing FOR KAITEN'S RETURN!!!! Someone who is saying THEY WANT YOU TO GET WHAT YOU WANT!! For the love of Zodiark, TAKE YES FOR AN ANSWER ALREADY!!!!!!!

If anything, you should be fighting with the people here (and in that thread) openly mocking you and saying they hope you never get Kaiten back. They actually are opposing you. YOU just want to rag on and disparage me personally.

...I'm almost honored I live so rent free in your head that there are TWO things you will go after any time: Me and Kaiten. I feel so loved. <3

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Why should the fact that you agree with me influence me? Especially since you made whole argument about something else? Why do you even think I'm "fighting" people, I multiple times asked you for the links you were talking about so the discussion can lead to actual topic, and you finally did, so I'm happy, since discussions can lead to somewhere.

Who's even opposing me? Except the pedophiles who spam reported my comment and got me banned few weeks back. Aside from few rage baiters, and people who are annoyed by the Cult of Kaiten people who want Kaiten back, there doesn't seem to be much opposition, so the word of our lord and saviour, Hissatsu: Kaiten feedback can spread.

Too much arguing in this thread now and not enough Kaiten. Because of this, I think the only solution is that we bring back Kaiten.

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Originally Posted by Avoidy

you meme, but after watching them gut AST and distribute its skills across the healer role and then cleave out its sect system so sage wouldn't feel intimidated, I'd bet 11 dollars that the new melee job has some pre-emptive button you press before doing your actual chunky skill that reminds people of kaiten. they kinda did it with the aoes too, didn't they? removed conal from jobs that had it for years, replacing it with awkward circle aoes. but then randomly gave conal aoes to other slightly newer jobs ... was it rpr? I don't remember. main point being, they love removing stuff and then returning it later but to other jobs entirely lol

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Seen argument points before with Pre-changed Tenka Goken, on how it would be to outdated for the new EW content with gigantic sized mobs... Yet it's not like Conal shaped attacks from us have been deleted from XIV. Other Jobs have them still and hell even we have Ogi Namikiri, proving that Tenka Goken could work just as fine if they buffed it's Radius. Instead? the following changed happened...

• Tenka Goken shape changed from Cone to Circle
• Tenka Goken does not require Tab target
• Tenka Goken radius increased

Coupled with Hissatsu: Kaiten removal, turned fun darting in and out + slight thinking of your positioning to deal maximum efficient damage ( which isn't hard to do ) into stand still in the center of the pack and just spam Hissatsu: Kyuten i.e your AoE Shinten version, thoughtlessly and effortlessly... It doesn't feel as rewarding. Yet this really sounds silly as the content you will do AoE rotations is already dumb as bricks. Dungeons, Fates etc... but the content is already that boring, coupled with bland AoE rotation = extra extra Boring...

For me it always felt satisfying to be able to do the old rotation properly to help make any dungeon or fate farming go faster ever so slightly. I'd get compliments that we never have done this so fast by random strangers. Makes me want to do that tiny bit of extra for the party I'm with. Now instead its expected... The emphasis is no where near to highlight the user piloting the Job, it's the Job itself that feels like it plays itself like duh you picked Samurai of course you deal damage who cares who plays it... doesn't matter if its you, them or a monkey piloting it now... It never was complicated to play, but now its really extra dumb to - I'm essentially doing Roulettes and Savage content while watching Netflix... That should not be the point of a game, I play the game to play the game not feeling like a mehh? + let me watch Edgerunners or something again while I coffee sip weave mid pull for funzies...

I would not mind seeing what other Jobs actually have lost in detail like AST mhm

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Originally Posted by Renathras

It IS an obsession, people that want it back ARE irrational in how they will lash out at anyone they perceive as preventing that (even if said person has actual arguments or is offering fair rebuttal to them)

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You can't disagree with these people, they're a cult. My position is literally just "why not add an even better button to replace Kaiten" and they still act like a swarm of angry hornets because it wouldn't bring back the object of their obsession. Let me repeat that again. They are against an even better and more interesting version of Kaiten because it's not the thing that they spent a year obsessing over.

This is literally just wanting something only because you can't have it.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

You can't disagree with these people, they're a cult. My position is literally just "why not add an even better button to replace Kaiten" and they still act like a swarm of angry hornets because it wouldn't bring back the object of their obsession. Let me repeat that again. They are against an even better and more interesting version of Kaiten because it's not the thing that they spent a year obsessing over.

This is literally just wanting something only because you can't have it.

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Simply because I'll repeat it again...

They can remove anything and replace it with Nothing. So they removed Kaiten? and replaced it with Nothing. To willingly accept giving up anything in exchange for something better? is accepting an empty promise as that something better might never arrive as we're still waiting. In fact? that might be the case for other Jobs even more then ours... I am against SE/Dev's and Co's bad decisions that affected gameplay they lost and liked. For the future if you ask me, I'd rather Square not remove anything from any Job? unless they have something new or better immediately to show for it to replace it with. Instead of like you said... waiting years for nothing, as Kaiten removal fixed and improved absolutely nothing.

Personally.. I think the obsession around
obsessing about others obsessions is more obsessive
then my own passion mislabeled as obsession
by obsessive obsessionists.

https://i.ibb.co/wMpWnTC/Whaa.png

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Originally Posted by CelestiCer

They can remove anything and replace it with Nothing. So they removed Kaiten? and replaced it with Nothing.

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Which was stupid on the devs part. I don't even disagree with you on this.

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Originally Posted by CelestiCer

To willingly accept giving up anything in exchange for something better? is accepting an empty promise as that something better might never arrive as we're still waiting.

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Asking for a better Kaiten replacement has an equally low chance of working as asking for Kaiten back does, so if we're going to spend a year constantly asking for something, why the worse option of the two?

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Originally Posted by CelestiCer

I am against SE/Dev's and Co's bad decisions that affected gameplay they lost and liked. For the future if you ask me, I'd rather Square not remove anything from any Job? unless they have something new or better immediately to show for it to replace it with.

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I literally agree. DRK has the same problem where it needs to wait eons to get much needed changes that people were asking for for years.

However, you don't see me going into threads that have nothing to do with gameplay design to mention the removal of things like Dark Arts. If the constant mentioning of Kaiten was supposed to be a joke, it was funny the first few times you did it, but the joke's been worn out.

I'm literally not disagreeing that Kaiten's removal was a problem. Shinten spam absolutely sucks. The two things we disagree on is that I think we should ask for a better replacement than just bringing Kaiten back, and that I don't think that spamming threads/posts about it for this long is healthy. Again, if you think that this is still a relevant topic, at least spam it on the DPS forums where it might get seen.

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Originally Posted by CelestiCer

Personally.. I think the obsession around
obsessing about others obsessions is more obsessive
then my own passion mislabeled as obsession
by obsessive obsessionists.

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Tell me which is more obsessive.
1) Making Kaiten whining posts for at least months. (Again I'm not checking to see if it's been longer)
2) Pointing out #1 in two threads over the course of a few days.

If you choose #2, then I'm sorry but that's pure copium. You guys are acting like a cult, and the object of your worship is a single button that got removed from a video game. I want SAM to be a more interesting and fun job, I just don't agree with the Kaiten worship. Call me a heretic if you want, but it just wasn't THAT good of a button where we need to have this level of devotion to it for an entire year.

https://i.ibb.co/D8hqPH1/Kaiten-Tshirt.png

https://i.ibb.co/HHMmJ70/kaiten.pnghttps://i.ibb.co/Q67vX04/X.gif https://i.ibb.co/HHMmJ70/kaiten.png

W-Was making a T-Shirt out of c-cope (obviously)
What do you t-think? mhm...

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

You can't disagree with these people, they're a cult. My position is literally just "why not add an even better button to replace Kaiten" and they still act like a swarm of angry hornets because it wouldn't bring back the object of their obsession. Let me repeat that again. They are against an even better and more interesting version of Kaiten because it's not the thing that they spent a year obsessing over.

This is literally just wanting something only because you can't have it.

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Personally i liked Kaiten, it added a small amount of decision making to the rotation.

If they wanted to cull button bloat, all they had to do was combine Shota/Shota2 into a single target+cleave and it would have made the same difference in bloat that removing Kaiten did.

The current state of SAM players in savage is enough to show how low the skill ceiling for samurai is now, you can play like hot garbage and still do well, because the class no longer allows for meaningful decision making, and you just dump your job bar whenever you have it.

Next time I wonder why the devs and mods interact absolutely never with the community, I'll just look at this thread.