Thank you Yoshi for your stance on DPS meters

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Originally Posted by linay

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While I do see your point that still doesn't tell if you individually are getting better at your dps rotation. It tells you're getting better at not being dead.
And even if you play regularly with the same people, that still doesn't mean you as an individual are pulling the numbers you're supposed to in order to progress a fight. This I say from experience, because I've been in many groups in which someone would execute mechanics flawlessly but still not be very good at their own class rotation to the point of severely underperforming. And when someone underperforms, someone else has to make up for it. A party being able to clear content, it being fast or slow, does not mean in any way, shape or form that all 8 players are on the same skill level. Not without numbers to back it up.

I was also on the other side of that same perspective, thinking that I was a really good DPS throughout fights when in reality I was being mediocre at best.

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Originally Posted by DevilsDontFly

While I do see your point that still doesn't tell if you individually is getting better at your dps rotation. It tells you're getting better at not being dead.
And even if you play regularly with the same people, that still doesn't mean you as an individual is pulling the numbers you're supposed to in order to progress a fight. This I say from experience, because I've been in many groups in which someone would execute mechanics flawlessly but still not be very good at their own class rotation to the point of severely underperforming. And when someone underperforms, someone else has to make up for it. A party being able to clear content, it being fast or slow, does not mean in any way, shape or form that all 8 players are on the same skill level. Not without numbers to back it up.

I was also on the other side of that same perspective, thinking that I was a really good DPS throughout fights when in reality I was being mediocre at best.

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Your original question that I responded to asked how people can tell if they're getting better at the game, not if they're performing at a certain level. Getting better at your DPS rotation will help you with all the things that I listed and you would thus be able to see the change.

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Originally Posted by Gula

It's almost as though the hostility brought to Yoshi-P and staff from these very forums are proof enough that the NA community does not deserve in game meters. Let alone encouragement to use them for group play.

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Yet those same people will be using these things regardless of everything said. Your notion of "punishing" the whole community makes me to search your parses right now, just for...scientific reasons. And before you hit that report button, no, going to the website with these parses is not against any rule. And no, I'm not gonna publish anything I find, just your arrogance makes me curious!

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

That's just the thing though. Sure you can Ask for that but then what if everybody or a vast majority starts asking for that? You end up locking out a ton of players and that wouldn't be fun for anybody but people that have statics or get lucky with high skilled pugs.
Then there are players that CAN get a 80 or higher percentile but can't because they pug, and get healers that let them die or tanks and other problems in their pug runs that's not their fault.

I mean...look at it in someone else shoes and don't give me that BS "Well I'll try to improve and get a better parse" How would you like if everybody is setting these very high standards which you know you can get but can't because all those bad pugs.
Tanks have it the worst since they're the most valuable to dying due to the healers.
I know some very skilled Tanks but they always have a bunch of greens and blues because they die from lack of healing.

All I'm saying is if you were a samurai in stormblood(mid stormblood), just imagine that but for everybody that's not a high purple parse. No matter how good I was, nobody wanted my job and it was VERY hard for me to find a group that lets my job in.

Don't get me wrong. I know this sorta happens already but an official parse would just make it worst since at least now, People can't demand that kind of requirement(At least openly) giving people at least a chance.

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You do realize those players can just... make their own parties, yes? If there were a ton of them, they'd likely have an even larger pool of players than those demanding 80%. And once again, this already happens. If a party lists "skip Black Smokers" and the group isn't able to because they have a 10k SAM. That person will likely be kicked except no one will say why.

I've pugged this whole tier and parsed 80 to 99 on several different jobs. It's very doable even in a non-optimized group. Bear in mind, plenty of groups won't have such requirements. As for how I'd feel, well... I wouldn't be all that bothered. I'd make my own if needs be. As for Samurai being unpopular. That was partly due to SE's poor design choices and how FFlogs used to rank. Samurai was woefully undertuned and had to compete against piercing—a battle it'd never win because what Bard or Machinist would join a party without a Dragoon? This is no longer the case and you see practically every job in PF these days. Making parsers public wouldn't change that. In fact, it may make things better as more people would understand how rDPS works.

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Originally Posted by linay

I think it's partly about prevention. If less people are using it, and especially using it in the open, then there would be less chance of toxicity of this kind to occur. Of course, either way, harassment would still be forbidden.

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No. They simply want to maintain the illusion of a hugbox. Perhaps I'd be proven wrong but I firmly believe that outside the initial month or two, the community would settle right back down to how it is now provided SE did proper due diligence. The actual toxic players would get suspended or banned while everyone else just goes about their business. The issue is that requires work they don't want to deal with.

I donno how raids go but I can't imagine that a static deliberating how to round out the rough edges in their attempts is the issue?

It's usually when people bring it up in DF that it's harassment - there's no reason to mention DPS or individual performance in something like roulette or queued content. Figure if the queue is the one building the party then no one has the right to judge who's in it.

But I imagine it's a lot different in PF.

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Originally Posted by Zsplash

I'm always amused by the community's lack of desire for improvements in the game, the only time people get upset is if they're not able to glam female/male specific gear or be a male bunny.

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Look at healer forum. They spoke even on stop healing because they want improvements to their jobs, because healer gameplay is way too boring.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Honestly, that isn't the worst thing in the world. You need to give it a chance and practice it, but if you're finding minor parts of your rotation are losing you more than you gain it can sometimes be better to drop them. For example in SB when Hagakure was a thing, I took it off my hotbar entirely and could still hit orange. You take the 1-2% potential loss but can play much more easily so that you're 10% better than you would be otherwise. ST mouseover macros for healers are another one, it's a tiny loss over the fight but if you heal far more efficiently with no hesitations it works out a gain.

Some rotations are more rigid and can't be altered without big losses, so it takes a little figuring out whether you can fine tune your rotation for personal use. Sam's a little more rigid now Shoha has been buffed. As I mentioned earlier though, the main thing is uptime and APM (actions per minute), getting that down with an almost-right rotation will get you most of the way there.

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Aye that was my logic too. I generally don't have the free time to join a raid static (mostly because I can't promise the regular hours they demand) so mostly I don't bother, or make plans with my FC in advance. I figured that if I can get it reasonably close to the intended idea though, that would be good enough for 98% of what I do and for the remaining 2% it wouldn't be a huge deal as long as I was geared decently.

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Originally Posted by Gula

It's almost as though the hostility brought to Yoshi-P and staff from these very forums are proof enough that the NA community does not deserve in game meters. Let alone encouragement to use them for group play.

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Has it ever occurred to you that hostility has grown because they routinely ignore the NA forums? Not that I'm saying being rude is a good practice but lets not pretend it's just all our fault. This argument also rings a tad hollow when instead of developing an actual damage meter they allow us to use a third party version they don't actually like.

Maybe a Damage report at the end of the Dungeon/Trial/Raid just like in Frontlines would suffice?

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

YoshiP is a former WoW enthusiast, so no wonder why he is against the DPS meters.

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Not true at all. WoW dungeon/raid finder content people don't care as long as it gets done; if anything there's people who should get kicked but dont. In PUG or harder content then yes dps is an issue and people should be pulling their weight.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

That would be illegal in certain countries. Yoshi-P said as much himself during the Live Letter.

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That's nonsense. I'd like to know what countries these are.

Using WoW as an example they have a monitoring program called Warden that's been in the game for as long as the game had been out. Several imports have much more intrusive anti-cheat systems and they are perfectly legal, unfortunately.

Third party parsers have been given a wink and a nod by him so they are allowed by the back door. It's unfair on people who dont use them and stick to the EULA.