[Suggestion] Remove the role restrictions on the YoRHa gear?

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Originally Posted by CazzT

I keep seeing people saying that unlocking everything for glams would create more diversity in looks, yet in this very thread we evidence to the contrary. First two pages alone you have two pieces of gear that several people want to be able to use on other roles. Doesn't sound very diverse with so many people wanting those specific pieces.

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People would wear it for a while and then move on to the next new thing. More options means you have a lot of samples to draw from when creating a look, thus giving you more diversity. Not the other way around. Character creation in the game is the perfect example of how restriction leads to homogenization.

Or you know.. just make more lvl1 all class stuff for glamour instead of role/level/ilvl/gender/ps2/ps3/ps4 locking them. Jobs can keep their identity, while we also have more options to create identities for our characters.

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Originally Posted by rachcouture

Asking for a QoL feature that existed in FFXI—FFXIV's predecessor—isn't entitlement.

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Not it isn't. Thinking that restrictions have no place in this game because they are looser in other games however, is. That's like me getting a discount at one shoe store, and believing that I am entitled to the same discount at a different shoe store. This is where responses like, "Well, go play FFXI then" will come from. Just so you know.

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If there's legitimate reasons, then please, list them. So far I haven't seen any whatsoever.

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I did. I can't be faulted if you refuse to acknowledge them. Perhaps you can help me see good reasons to lift restrictions. Other than, "HOMG! more options, duuuuhhh!"

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Asking for restrictions to be lifted and complaining about the ones that are in place are two entirely different things. And Yoshi's comments pertained to releasing sets of gear for classes that currently have restrictions. I should not have to mention that once they are in place, they are troublesome to remove. It is much easier to release sets of gear that mimic them and made available for other jobs and roles, which they have done. This does not prohibit them in any way for releasing new sets of gear that are entirely new to the game and place restrictions on them, which we all should be used to by now.

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I don't disagree here. I'm all in with the replica route they did with the skypirate set. In fact, they should make a system where you can convert the item you get to a level 1 replica by exchanging it under certain conditions (such as having the required job for it leveled up). This way you only create the replica if you're not gonna use that gear anymore.

I'm not sure if OP's intention is to actually have role restriction removed from the gear, where you can wear the level 80 gear on any class. But if it is, then I'm 100% sure that's a hard no from Yoshi P. No point asking about that.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Restrictions, despite contrary belief, don't hinder options and diversity in the game. I should ask if all the roles in the game are wearing a set intended for casters/tanks/healers, how is this not homogenization? Sure, if restrictions are not in place it gives the player more options to glamour, but this does not necessarily mean it is going to eliminate homogenization among the playerbase. This is done through diversity, and sometimes the devs have to force it, especially with new sets of gear that will undoubtedly be trendy and a novelty upon their implementation.

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Here I would disagree. People would wear the same gear set for a couple of days and change to something else. Everyone was wearing Krile and Aymeric outfits when they got first released. Now, you don't see them a lot anymore. The same will happen to every new gear. But! your argument would be true in the case we have very few gear in the game. If we assumed we don't have any gear other than YoRHa gear, then if you removed the restriction, you'd see a lot wearing the gear that everyone thinks looks good. With the restriction, you'd force people to look different. But we don't have this case, you have a lot of options to choose from already, and allowing you to use more will increase diversity in this case. Now people are wearing the 2B bottom just for the butt. If more that looks similar got released, you'd see people using them also instead of 2B alone.

Character creation is an example of how you'd still end up with homogenized looks when you restrict the options to a predetermined faces. Only thing differentiating others is just the hair, skin/eye color and face paintings.

https://i.imgur.com/2FUs7KC.png

Meet Ardbert. I forgot this guy's name in MSQ, but every time I look at him, I just remember Ardbert.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Restrictions by nature are preventative, so they are in place to keep player acquisition in check. They also exist to provide incentive. Weekly loot lockouts and capped tomes are examples of said restrictions, and prevent players from getting BiS in a matter of days or even hours. As a result the content stays relevant until better gear is released, which gives new players the same opportunity to clear the content as those before them.

In the case of glamour, the restrictions provide incentive to play those roles and the jobs within them. Not wanting to play a certain job in order to obtain it is a moot argument made by the other poster because SE still needs those roles and jobs queueing into the content so they at least attempt to get a balance among all the jobs they've released into the game.

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I do agree with this kind of restriction. And yes, I stated before that if they were to implement a system that allows you to glamour other role gear, then they should add a condition that you already have a job that can equip it at the required level. In fact, that would give people more incentive to level other jobs to be able to glamour them. We all know that glamour is the true end game to a lot. It will give even more incentive for others to do old content for that gear.

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Originally Posted by rachcouture

If there's legitimate reasons, then please, list them. So far I haven't seen any whatsoever.

Do you not realize how ridiculous it sounds to say that limitations aren't boring? They are the epitome of it.

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The "legitimate reasons" seem to be more practical and gear-based. They can't simply unlock the restrictions on this set of gear without redesigning how the glamour system works. To glamour it, you need to be able to equip it, so they can't change it without either making replicas or actually making the gear equippable by all classes.

As for limitations being "boring"? That very much depends on the degree and type of limitations. If one class was actually limited in the number of designs

All roles have a large amount of options to them already, whether you personally like the designs or not.

Yes, removing restrictions would increase the total amount of combinations a person can wear at any time. But that doesn't make the current range boring.

At the same time, I do see an appeal in having gear that is class-locked - not because it restricts you from equipping other gear, but because the inverse is that you can create something unique to that class, and there's a creative challenge in that.

I also like playing around with designs in this way - making costumes that don't look like the role but could only worn by it. eg. Healer knight and stealth healer. Obviously the WHM staff is a bit of a giveaway but even without it, both sets have recognisable healer-only or mage-only gear, at least to someone like me who has a sort of catalogued memory of all the gear you can get from various places.

And even when not trying to subvert it, I prefer to equip something role-appropriate so I think I come up against the restrictions less often.

I also level everything - or intend to over time - and this seems to be how the devs expect people to play. So if I really like something then I'll be able to equip it sooner or later. And I'll just have to find things that I can match with it instead of fretting over the ones I can't.

TL;DR: There are plenty of options even with the restrictions and it's certainly not limited enough to call it boring. They're unlikely to lift the restrictions any time soon so just enjoy the classes you can equip it on, or level a new class if you're desperate.

At the rate we get replica gear, I don't think we'd have it before 7.0 if they did release it at all. These particular sets also may have contract issues since it's a collaboration.

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Originally Posted by Novae

Nope. Nope nope nope. Homogeneity is boring. You want that glam, work for it, it will keep you busy and do content instead of being afk in Limsa showcasing your generic glamour ( because you know, everyone and their porxie will wear the same thing... oh wait, it's already happening with the Nier outfit box).

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Again, how does this argument make any sense? Limited options = more options?
When I glamour, I try to go for something unique. If I use a piece of gear that I a lot of other people wear (like the Craftsman's Singlet or the Rebel Coat, etc.), I try to pair it with other things that might make my outfit stand out from the rest a little more. Role restrictions make this a tad difficult for me when I'm trying to put an outfit together, especially when I'm looking for things that fit mine/my character's personal aesthetics.

Not everyone is going to want to dress the same with restrictions removed, I don't know why people think "homogenizing" things would have this effect. I think that's more of an issue with the restrictions in place.

No, less-restricted options = more opportunities to be unique.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

Here I would disagree. People would wear the same gear set for a couple of days and change to something else. Everyone was wearing Krile and Aymeric outfits when they got first released. Now, you don't see them a lot anymore. The same will happen to every new gear. But! your argument would be true in the case we have very few gear in the game. If we assumed we don't have any gear other than YoRHa gear, then if you removed the restriction, you'd see a lot wearing the gear that everyone thinks looks good. With the restriction, you'd force people to look different. But we don't have this case, you have a lot of options to choose from already, and allowing you to use more will increase diversity in this case. Now people are wearing the 2B bottom just for the butt. If more that looks similar got released, you'd see people using them also instead of 2B alone.

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I can turn the argument just as easily and say that in time, restricted gear will get the versions for other roles released. Guaranteed? No. But neither is any combination of gear i decide to put together not being thought up by someone else. The likelihood of two different jobs wearing the same piece of gear does not decrease with lifting restrictions; it increases it. This probability increases exponentially the newer the item is, as is the case with 2B butt. I really don't know any other way how to explain how less is more in this case.

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Character creation is an example of how you'd still end up with homogenized looks when you restrict the options to a predetermined faces. Only thing differentiating others is just the hair, skin/eye color and face paintings.

https://i.imgur.com/2FUs7KC.png

Meet Ardbert. I forgot this guy's name in MSQ, but every time I look at him, I just remember Ardbert.

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CC is a bit of a different topic. However, I will mention that distant relatives with uncanny physical similarities exists in the real world too. Not saying these two NPCs are related, but I think you get the idea.

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I do agree with this kind of restriction. And yes, I stated before that if they were to implement a system that allows you to glamour other role gear, then they should add a condition that you already have a job that can equip it at the required level. In fact, that would give people more incentive to level other jobs to be able to glamour them. We all know that glamour is the true end game to a lot. It will give even more incentive for others to do old content for that gear.

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I think I could possibly meet you at this level, and would love if the game currently worked this way. You'd see a healer in a caster set of a certain level and immediately know they earned it as a caster at that level, and you would have to do the same if you want your own healer to wear it. Unfortunately, they would have to rework current systems the game uses. Like I said before, it's much easier for them to just release new sets that copy those designs. As long as they are dyeable, they should suffice for the most part, and sometimes look even better than the original versions.

I can sorta see a valid argument for not being able to glamour weapons onto other classes because who knows how that'd work, imagine seeing a dragoon using monk weapons or a white mage wielding ninja knives, haha.

But seriously there's no real argument against them just going in and commenting out the parts of code that check whether the glamour you're applying is for an equipment you can currently use. If you have an item you should be able to glamour it, straight up. The only argument anyone's levied against that is 'well I don't like it :(' or 'reducing player freedom is good actually??' or some nonsense about that the two to four artifact sets each job has somehow constitutes both a job AND role identity that must be protected at all costs.

Even IF this worst-case fear mongering about them designing less sets because of a lack of restrictions comes true, isn't that what they're doing anyway half the time? Tank sets sharing with dragoon sets? Caster sets sharing with healer sets? 'Oh no, we only get four armor designs instead of seven, which matters a lot more to me personally even though I can now use all four of them as I see fit instead of just being locked into one for the role I'm playing'

They're straight up not going to have to redesign the entire code base or equipment system or whatever just to make it so that every job counts as every other job for the purposes of glamour exclusively.

I don"t get the people saying "I don't want the restriction lift because of homogenization.

If YOU don't want to use a glamour from another role, great, stick to the ones that have your job stat, thus were design with the "job identity" in mind and let the ones that want freedom have that fredom.
(wich is prett laughable considering they take caster stuff from SB and add them as melee/range DPS but, ok, your pov)

Your acting like people making a scene because they sell meat in a restaurant while "I don't eat meat cause it's my personal belief and so non should". I mean, IRL, do you refuse to people the freedom to do whatever they want (as long as it's legal and everyone agreed with it) if do not share your ideas and opinions too ? oO

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Like I said before, it's much easier for them to just release new sets that copy those designs. As long as they are dyeable, they should suffice for the most part, and sometimes look even better than the original versions.

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Agreed with this idea BUT....they would have to do the job twice then so.....why not just rework the system and lift restriction instead of coding the same piece 2 times ?
It would be a lot of work to change the way stuff works but, on the other hand investing the time now in this ould save some more later, considering they would not have to make the same piece again and again.

Not to mention they already did it before, with HG lvling craft gear you can glamour over every job, being DoH or DoW

i really don't see the problem especially the "homogenize" argument most the player base already jumps from one new glam to the other,
like most are wearing the ishgard restoration glamor before that it just map glamor,2b etc etc opening up gear
especially if its just the yorha gear isn't gonna make it worse

glam your character how you want them and let other people glam how they want them