Please reconsider removing job restrictions on glamour armor

Silhouette was a holdover from World of Warcraft because World of Warcraft had very prominent (often in-world) PVP and having a burst-heavy class like Thief mimic a warrior tank and get ignored, only to delete his aggressors would be a rather serious issue. FFXIV, however, is very different in basic design from WoW. For one, every single job has a distinct (and quite prominent) weapon type and animations. I am in no way at risk of mistaking the DRK for a NIN because I can see very clearly that big honkin' greatsword he is using.

I don't think Yoshi-P is intending to be misleading here, but I am pretty sure the actual reason is that the game has already invested heavily into an economy of duplicate gear set designs that removing glamour restrictions would create a logistical nightmare with regards to that economy and potentially mogstation items as well.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

I get job identity when it comes to weapons and artifact sets.

But where is the 'job identity' in most of the sets? Other than fending armor usually having a bit more armor on it than the other sets in a group, there really isn't any. Take the Nier sets that just released. Or Sky Rat or Shisui sets. Or the new pvp sets? Why is the aiming set just as armored as the fending set? Where is the job identity when paladins and gunbreakers have the same gear? Red mages have a very different aesthetic to them than black mages as well.

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The job and/or role (it's not just about job) identity comes with familiarity. If I see a green Shisui set, it's likely a ninja.

While I don't really mind the job restrictions on gear (mostly because I know how to work my way around it), I'm far more annoyed about gear restrictions added on crafter and gatherer gear past level 50 just because of wondering why that's still a thing.

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Originally Posted by zeth07

Yoshi-P: to answer about removing the job restrictions, unfortunately, we don’t intend to remove them. The reason is simple.

For players who have played other Final Fantasy titles, they’ll easily recognize these gear designs as a way to identify a particular job...You wouldn’t want to see someone carrying an axe casting black magic. You’d wonder: What the hell kind of game is this?

This cannot be an acceptable reason for the restriction with the current state of the game's armor selection.

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That's a perfectly legitimate reason, though.

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Originally Posted by zeth07

First off, the excuse about carrying an axe and casting black magic doesn't make sense. No one is talking about glamouring job weapons. I feel like we all understand THAT wouldn't make sense. So it is a horrible example for why the restriction is in place.

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It would not make sense to see a Warrior or Paladin in Black Mage garb, either. Think past the words written to the context of what's being said.

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Originally Posted by zeth07

Second, if they are going to use the old excuse that the "gear designs" are meant to "identify a particular job", they have long since thrown that out the window with the glamour options we have received. Particularly the joke ones.

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Except they haven't. Adding additional armor into the game that anyone can use does not change the reality that the class armor is designed around the class identity.

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Originally Posted by zeth07

Reasons Restrictions Should Be Removed

1 = We already have actual job swapped gear models/recolors
2 = NPCs have mixed gear "glamour" already
3 = Special NPC outfits are no longer "unique" to them
4 = Make "Artifact" armor and equivalents the exceptions5 = Joke glamours exist

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1 - Not exactly. There are armors that are similar, but still distinctly different. There are no armor sets that look like PLD, WAR, DRG, WHM, AST, etc class sets that other classes can wear. If you're referring to raid drops, those are not "class sets".

2 - NPCs are not players. NPCs have abilities that players do not, and likely never will, have. PLD is a good example. PLD does not have a massive frontal cone attack, but there are two PLD NPCs that use just such an attack. NPCs have and get things players do not. This is not an acceptable reason to remove restrictions.

3 - Looking like a character does not require being that character's job. If you wear the same outfit as your friend, you don't suddenly become what they are. Not an acceptable reason to remove restrictions.

4 - I'm unsure what you think class sets are if not the Artifact gear sets.

5 - Joke glamours were never designed to be class/job specific. Not an acceptable reason to remove restrictions.

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Originally Posted by zeth07

These are acceptable representations of:
"a way to identify a particular job" - Yoshi-P 2019

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None of those were designed as class/job sets.

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Originally Posted by zeth07

https://i.imgur.com/o4SBQaL.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/gHG88us.jpg

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An armor design that is not tied to any specific class/job. It is tied to a specific NPC. There is a difference.

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Originally Posted by zeth07

But this is not acceptable

https://i.imgur.com/8oWvPcx.png

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What's wrong with this? It's an NPC, not a player. It's not even an iconic NPC, in fact. This is standard practice in MMOs.

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Originally Posted by zeth07

I feel like I made a reasonable explanation and gave plenty of examples for why glamour job restrictions on armor should be removed.

So FFXIV team, please remove job restrictions on glamour armor already, it's almost 2020.

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But you haven't given any legitimate or acceptable reasons for the restrictions to be removed. You've cited examples that have nothing to do with class/job, which completely ignores what YoshiP said.

There's no reason to remove the restrictions on class gear. It would make no sense, lore or otherwise, to allow a Warrior or Paladin or Dragoon or Whitemage to run around in Black Mage or Ninja or Bard or Scholar garb.

I always found the excuse a bit lackluster. You are not leveling 18 different characters, you are one character leveling several jobs. If you are a level 50 black mage, and thus can wear level 50 black mage clothes, you shouldn't be unable to glam them just because you are currently holding a sword in your hand. You are still a level 50 black mage imo. (i.e. let us glam anything we can equip on any of our leveled jobs)

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Originally Posted by CazzT

There's no reason to remove the restrictions on class gear. It would make no sense, lore or otherwise, to allow a Warrior or Paladin or Dragoon or Whitemage to run around in Black Mage or Ninja or Bard or Scholar garb.

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1. A person can put on clothes, etc.
2. A lot of the gear restricted to particular jobs is not gear designed specifically for that/those job(s).
3. Your character is not only one Job/Class.
4. The glamour and gear system does not support Job/Class identity. There are 18 jobs and 11 crafter and gatherer classes, but only 15 glamour plate. Any one item can only have one glamour applied and many jobs/classes end up sharing gear. You cant even have multiples of most high end gear if you wanted to. If you have a glamour that is exclusive to Red Mage when you switch to Black Mage you have the generic look. You can only apply plates in certain areas.

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What's wrong with this? It's an NPC, not a player. It's not even an iconic NPC, in fact. This is standard practice in MMOs.

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Ok Yda and Papalymo. Iconic characters, specifically identified as a Pugilist and a Thaumaturge. Both wear plate gear.

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Originally Posted by linay

The job and/or role (it's not just about job) identity comes with familiarity. If I see a green Shisui set, it's likely a ninja.

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WHat aobut sets like sky rat that are dyable? WIth the new pvp armor if you die the tank one or the aiming one they won't be distinguishable at a distance. We have distinct weapon types for that. Not to mention all the glamor pieces that aren't tied to any particular job manage to not somehow break the game.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

1. A person can put on clothes, etc.
2. A lot of the gear restricted to particular jobs is not gear designed specifically for that/those job(s).
3. Your character is not only one Job/Class.
4. The glamour and gear system does not support Job/Class identity. There are 18 jobs and 11 crafter and gatherer classes, but only 15 glamour plate. Any one item can only have one glamour applied and many jobs/classes end up sharing gear. You cant even have multiples of most high end gear if you wanted to. If you have a glamour that is exclusive to Red Mage when you switch to Black Mage you have the generic look. You can only apply plates in certain areas.



Ok Yda and Papalymo. Iconic characters, specifically identified as a Pugilist and a Thaumaturge. Both wear plate gear.

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Add to that, Yoshi P in an interview said that if players wanted a certain gear for glamour (not job ones) they should request it and they will make one for it. That's why we got lots of lvl1 gear for glamour in Eureka that were role limited. As I said before, I think to overcome the issue of recoding the glamour system, they could instead provide us with means of either converting the gear we want into level 1 replicas that are open for all classes (probably least stressful on their servers), or means to buy replicas of our gear.

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Originally Posted by CazzT

Snip.

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Lore reasons is an extremely lazy excuse to not add something widely requested, sure lore is important but the fact of the matter is that a majority of the fanbase doesn't care about the lore to the extent that they would support denying changing current content so that it benefits other players and allows them to get more enjoyment out of the game simply because the lore doesn't allow it. Not only that, but I don't recall ever seeing something lore related say that it's impossible to glamour white mage robes over machinist armor, I mean, it's glamour.

Plus, even if lore was the reason you can't mix armors from different classes, you can always add some new quest or something lore related that retcons that restriction somehow. I mean if we didn't have the echo I'm pretty sure the vast majority of us wouldn't have made it to level 50 and would be permadead somewhere in Tam Tara or Stone Vigil if we started restricting the game by only allowing things that are lore friendly.

Anyways, my point is that lore isn't a good reason for not lifting glamour restrictions. Most people here are only advocating for armor glamour restriction removal anyways, not weapon.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

1. A person can put on clothes, etc.
2. A lot of the gear restricted to particular jobs is not gear designed specifically for that/those job(s).
3. Your character is not only one Job/Class.
4. The glamour and gear system does not support Job/Class identity. There are 18 jobs and 11 crafter and gatherer classes, but only 15 glamour plate. Any one item can only have one glamour applied and many jobs/classes end up sharing gear. You cant even have multiples of most high end gear if you wanted to. If you have a glamour that is exclusive to Red Mage when you switch to Black Mage you have the generic look. You can only apply plates in certain areas.

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1 - Saying a person can change clothes is irrelevant to removing restrictions.
2 - Which I addressed.
3 - Completely irrelevant.
4 - The number of glamour plates is irrelevant to the design of the job gear. Glamour plates didn't even exist until Stormblood. Another irrelevant point.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

Ok Yda and Papalymo. Iconic characters, specifically identified as a Pugilist and a Thaumaturge. Both wear plate gear.

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Still NPCs. The rules for NPC gear are not the same for job gear for players. This has always been the case, and is the case in pretty much every MMO.

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

Lore reasons is an extremely lazy excuse to not add something widely requested

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For something that is centered around the lore of a job, it's not an excuse, it's a fundamental reason for keeping it the way it is.

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

sure lore is important but the fact of the matter is that a majority of the fanbase doesn't care about the lore to the extent that they would support denying changing current content so that it benefits other players and allows them to get more enjoyment out of the game simply because the lore doesn't allow it.

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So you support throwing out lore in favor of what a supposed majority want? A big reason why FFXIV is so highly praised is because the devs do not sacrifice lore in that way.

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

Plus, even if lore was the reason you can't mix armors from different classes, you can always add some new quest or something lore related that retcons that restriction somehow.

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This says everything I need to know. Retconning is the worst thing a writer can do. Especially for "gameplay" reasons.

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

Anyways, my point is that lore isn't a good reason for not lifting glamour restrictions. Most people here are only advocating for armor glamour restriction removal anyways, not weapon.

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When lore is a fundamental part of the jobs' gear aesthetics, it's a perfectly valid reason for not lifting the restrictions.

Consider: When you see Final Fantasy art, regardless of which title it's from, you can quickly pick out jobs/classes by how they look. What you, and others in this thread, are asking for is to throw that away. It's one of the defining characteristics of the entire franchise.