There's not much unique-ness when it comes to tank jobs, are there?

Obviously pld dodnt have aoe. You missed the point. War has had virtually the same single target and aoe ramp up 3 gcd eye combo since 2.0. Through ALL the iterations of pld, drk, war, and now gun. And at bo point was this ever considered a problem. In that time the duration has been nearly doubled. An aoe extension has been added. You can literally go entire dungeons applying eye 2-3 times on 20 minutes instead of every 18-30 seconds (depending on what patch). You NEVER need to apply it during a raid aoe sequence as it is already up and now extends during aoe. The only possible time it has any detrimental effect is in mass pull dungeons and, as i have pointed out, that scenario is trivial at this stage. A couple applications per 20 minutes. Oh but NOW of all times is when people clamor for eye change in every thread? Now its suddenly a problem? In the time of greatest homogenozstion between tanks qe need more homogenizatipn wven though se has added so many ways to ease the Eye burden to the point it only needs a few applications per dungeon?

If you are constantly applying eye in dungeons you are playing warrior badly. The same way some drks have conplained about not having mp to maintain darksode in low dungeons bwcause they spam out every drop of mp as soon as possible instead of maintaining 3k in the bank to extend the duration on the next pull.

Playing warrior well means VERY few eye applications inn aoe scenarios. Raids, non factor. EX trials? Same as raids eye is always up before adds so no ST gcds in aoe. 24 mans....wait were really going to worry about tight balance in thise shit shows? Dungeons, suck it up. 2-4 applications in 20 minutes does not warrent homogenizing every tank damage buff to aj ogcd. Go show me the evidence how much slower warrior parties clear dungeons due to eye. Amaze me at the 20 seconds you just have to save to justify going war over another tank.

Eye is a mole hill that no one noticed or cared about until xeno made it a mountain. And his exact reasoning was "other tanks can do it innan ogcd. Iz not fair". We dont need every tank to finction identically. To much has been himogenized as it is. Pitifully miniscule items like a few eyes in a dungeon are not worth sacing whats left.

If single target Storm's Eye is "clunky" so is every other alternate combo ender in the game and I sure am not looking forward to a streamer advocating for the deletion of Goring Blade just so we can go into Atonement spam faster or whatever. Removing Storm's Eye or turning it into an off-gcd would turn Warrior into a completely stripped down version of Dark Knight without any of the resource management or multiple off-gcds Dark Knight has to compensate for having a single combo chain.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Izsha

Obviously pld dodnt have aoe. You missed the point. War has had virtually the same single target and aoe ramp up 3 gcd eye combo since 2.0. Through ALL the iterations of pld, drk, war, and now gun. And at no point was this ever considered a problem.

---

Because until now it... wasn't. That's the thing about breakpoints. At some point they... break. Non-issue. Non-issue. Point of contention.

WAR did easily twice the AoE dps of other tanks in SB. Yet you think that context and ShB's should somehow function identically? Like it or not, context is a factor.

I'm not saying Storm's Eye should be removed. I personally like it. But if you're citing 2.x to explain why something should work in 5.x... you're way off base.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RadicalPesto

If single target Storm's Eye is "clunky" so is every other alternate combo ender in the game and I sure am not looking forward to a streamer advocating for the deletion of Goring Blade just so we can go into Atonement spam faster or whatever.

---

No one said Storm's Eye was clunky in the single target rotation, only for AoE. And no one (that I know of) said it should be removed, or turned into an oGCD... just off the top of my head Mythril Tempest could give the Storm's Eye buff instead of just extending it, and if it was limited to 15s* that would be long enough to fit an Inner Release window but short enough that you would still need to pay attention.

* Note: 15s would be the maximum duration that Mythril Tempest could grant / extend the Strom's Eye buff for, the ability Storm's Eye would still give the full 30s. Also, 15s is just a guess and may need adjusting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RadicalPesto

Removing Storm's Eye or turning it into an off-gcd would turn Warrior into a completely stripped down version of Dark Knight without any of the resource management or multiple off-gcds Dark Knight has to compensate for having a single combo chain.

---

If Storm's Eye is the only thing holding WAR above DRK then wow, WAR has more problems than even I thought.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Acidblood

And no one (that I know of) said it should be removed, or turned into an oGCD... just off the top of my head Mythril Tempest could give the Storm's Eye buff instead of just extending it, and if it was limited to 15s* that would be long enough to fit an Inner Release window but short enough that you would still need to pay attention.

* Note: 15s would be the maximum duration that Mythril Tempest could grant / extend the Strom's Eye buff for, the ability Storm's Eye would still give the full 30s. Also, 15s is just a guess and may need adjusting.

---

The one reason I see not to do that is at Overpower/Mythril Tempest would become the fastest way to get the Storm's Eye buff. It would go from the AoE opener having a annoying single target start up to the single target opener having a AoE start up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Acidblood

At least Edge / Shadow do damage directly instead of just buffing potencies, which IMO has a much better gameplay feel (i.e. you can see the results without staring at numbers / a parser). Maybe I missed some hidden depth in 4.X DRK (as I said I didn't really like it) but to me 4.X Dark Arts didn't feel like a 'bonus', or a 'reward', or even a well-designed class mechanic, it just felt like a bunch of busy work, a button you had to press so your abilities would do their 'real' damage.

Which is not to say 5.X DRK is a shining example of class design, it definitely has its issues, and feels like it is missing a few things, but IMO it's s solid base on which a solid class can be built (hopefully before 6.0).

---

Dark Arts wasn’t just a potency buff though!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Acidblood

At least Edge / Shadow do damage directly instead of just buffing potencies, which IMO has a much better gameplay feel (i.e. you can see the results without staring at numbers / a parser). Maybe I missed some hidden depth in 4.X DRK (as I said I didn't really like it) but to me 4.X Dark Arts didn't feel like a 'bonus', or a 'reward', or even a well-designed class mechanic, it just felt like a bunch of busy work, a button you had to press so your abilities would do their 'real' damage.

Which is not to say 5.X DRK is a shining example of class design, it definitely has its issues, and feels like it is missing a few things, but IMO it's s solid base on which a solid class can be built (hopefully before 6.0).

---

Dark Arts wasn’t just a potency buff though! Additionally the problem with Dark Arts didn’t really pop up until SB, I thought it was fine in HW. Basically what I’m saying is 3.0 DRK was the best DRK. Man I just miss spamming Dark Arted Abyssal Drain in large groups of enemies during big pulls after popping Blood Price, stalwart soul just isn’t anywhere near as satisfying :/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Because until now it... wasn't. That's the thing about breakpoints. At some point they... break. Non-issue. Non-issue. Point of contention.

WAR did easily twice the AoE dps of other tanks in SB. Yet you think that context and ShB's should somehow function identically? Like it or not, context is a factor.

I'm not saying Storm's Eye should be removed. I personally like it. But if you're citing 2.x to explain why something should work in 5.x... you're way off base.

---

And how is it an issue now exactly? Again, ive already outlined aoe situations.

Single target fights with an add phase. Its already up and extends. No problem. (All raids, ex trials, etc)

Dungeons: apply 2-4x per 20 minute dungeons. Again, hardly even noticable and can be reduced further with smart play (some pulls you can apply eye before they gather up anyway and maintain for long periods in many dungeons). And furthermore, how much worse is it to run a dungeon on war than another tank? Is there even a difference? No one has provided a shred of hard evidence to support how bad war is in dungeons right now.

Which leaves...story roulette and 24 man raids thay eye might be a hastle. Should be obvious why we dont care about balance in there. TA applied to 24 people is the most OP thing in the game. Not even worth considering.

So, you say history isnt a valid comparison. Then explain how exactly its bad now when it doesnt matter in high end content, period. And dungeons can be mitigated by playing better, and no evidence provided thay war is numerically suffering in a significant way because of eye. So what is the argument for changing it besides "other tanks can buff in an ogcd and war cant". Because thay alone is just begging for further homogenization without cause.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EpicOverlord85

Dark Arts wasn’t just a potency buff though!

---

In heavensward yea it was more than that and interesting to use, but in stormblood it was reduced to a potency buff that had no further thought put into it. From what I can remember the only skills that kept their dark arts changes were abyssal drain/dark passenger, but they were only usable in dungeons anyway. Honestly I think the changes to dark arts+abyssal drain spam was just a pure nerf since we had strong self-sustain in dungeons (remember yall only healers are allowed to heal). Of course they tried it in stormblood by making blood price actually useless because of the nerfs to its mana income, but after they added mana regain to quietus we just turned off grit and flipped on blood weapon to gain absurd amounts of mana to spam dark arts+abyssal drain like in heavensward. That was probably my favorite part of stormblood drk, it was risky but rewarding as heck.

They could've easily made dark arts usage go back to HW levels to address the senseless spamming, but I guess they really just got tired of making changes around it so they just decided to throw it away all together. I still feel that ShB DRK is in a good spot to be built on again. And to me spamming Edge/flood is more impactful than spamming dark arts. I will miss the dark arts jokes, we never got skill where we dark arts dark arts for a stronger dark arts move.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Acidblood

While it could be cool to have Dark Arts affect cooldowns in interesting ways, that pretty much locks in double weaving as a requirement to playing DRK.

---

So? Seriously, why do people sometimes act as if double weaving on DRK was such a horrible thing? Lots of weaving contributed to the fast-paced, high APM feel which drawn a lot of people to DRK in the first place.

Yeah, it can cause issues with high ping, but it's the same with other melee jobs which also had to double weave with 100% uptime speed buffs, heck the current DRK also has to double weave like mad during burst to get the most of it's damage.