My Idea For Fixing Blue Mage

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Anyone that wouldn't want evolution of our game isn't to be taken seriously.

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Is the experimental Blue Mage not an evolution in a different way?

But I guess it isn't evolving the way you're demanding it to, pity that.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

ok there are very few abilities that are overworld mobs only, Faze (go to any qiqirn), Flying sardine(plenty of Apkallus or do the levequest Call me mating), Bristle(loads of boars around) and Toad oil(the only one that might be able to troll on as haven't found a duty with it)
so 4 abilities that can only be gotten in overworld and only 1 that might be able to be trolled with/farmed to death
All in all do not worry as the vast majority of abilities have an alternate way of getting them the overworld might be the best for 16 abilities but only 4 actually require it

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Oh, I'm not terribly worried about it. I'm just ready for the eventual guy to run up to me and try to annoy me as I run about trying to get my BLU spells. But given the number of mobs (and ways) we have to pick how we get said spells, as you even mentioned, it'll only be a minor annoyance at worst I think.

Certainly won't compare to some of the Duty Finder stories I've had to share in the "Tales From the Duty Finder" thread. :p

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Originally Posted by TruebladeNuke

Oh, I'm not terribly worried about it. I'm just ready for the eventual guy to run up to me and try to annoy me as I run about trying to get my BLU spells. But given the number of mobs (and ways) we have to pick how we get said spells, as you even mentioned, it'll only be a minor annoyance at worst I think.

Certainly won't compare to some of the Duty Finder stories I've had to share in the "Tales From the Duty Finder" thread. :p

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Very much true XD i have one been meaning to add but i'm trying to remain calm about it

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

Because chained means they'd have to go learn those abilities and would likely be exiled by other players from group content until the player spent the work to go learn those spells. Not only is it roughly the response Yoshi had in regard to why Blue Mage is barred from Duty Finder content, but planning for the worst behavior of users is just a basic element of smart programming.

Ultimately, you can either have a job work like any other or you can have a job work like Blue Mage will. You can't have both because of just how horrible players can potentially be with any new system.

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I did add you'd have to learn them before joining DF*, therefore players wouldn't be toxic to a blue mage because if you see a blue mage then you'd know they have those skills. So your issue about mean players won't be one :). Also I believe that should be true for all jobs, not just blue mage (no joining end content without your important spells).

*Within reason say a few levels or so difference is fine (particularly thinking leniency for leveling dungeons) but if you're level 70 you can't queue as a conjurer (in DF, particularly thinking no leniency for level cap trials/end game content), as an extreme example. If there is a level 26-30 leveling dungeon you can't join missing level 20 skills, but you could join missing level 27 skill (and learn it in said dungeon if the monster is there). If there is a level 70 ex primal you can't join unless you know /all/ the skills part of your chained skill set (and should be true for all jobs).

I believe you can have both because I already said you'd program it in such a way due to smart programming. Also Blue Mage could easily handle getting skills alone due to their unchained portion, being able to solo and PF..

So I still haven't received a reason on why it couldn't work, chain and unchained together, especially given even if your point was true (Blue Mage sometimes ostracized, which it wouldn't if the DF mechanic I mentioned was active) it has nothing to do with my point that chain and unchained can exist at the same time and not hurt each other (for some reason a point some people were making, chain literally doesn't have to touch unchained to function). Blue mage being ostracized doesn't mean unchained and chain can't work which is what you're responding to (ostracized blue mage would be stuck with PF - like it already is, so worst case scenario we have a blue mage but it can work in more areas lol), but again I already described why Blue Mage /wouldn't/ be so long as DF is programmed to check skills - which it should do for all jobs anyways (smart programming, as you said).

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

BLU could have worked as a normal job. They could have picked a role, and taken classic blue mage spells to form a rotation/toolkit for that role, and just tied the monster part of it into job quests. It would have worked fine.

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The thing is, SE has pretty much done those things already. They have picked a role for Blue Mage (it's a DPS), it will have a rotation (one similar to Bard, but it's a rotation none the less), and there will be quests that may or may not guide players towards learning certain spells.

It's true that Blue Mage would have to put in extra work compared to other jobs, but shouldn't it be up to the players to decide if they want to put in the work towards using Blue Mage in all content? I don't see why it's such a bad thing to have a job with a different progression system. If you don't want to put up with a Blue Mage who only has Water Cannon, you don't have to, just like you don't have to put up with a Black Mage who only casts ice spells.

SE is being overly protective of Blue Mage. It's like a parent refusing to let their kid go to the park out of fear that their kid will get beaten up.

Blue Mage is incredibly OP
the only way to "fix" it to be a standard class would be to remake it entirely from scratch again and basically make them not a blue mage

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Originally Posted by Bacent

Is the experimental Blue Mage not an evolution in a different way?

But I guess it isn't evolving the way you're demanding it to, pity that.

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I don't like your attitude. Please stop derailing my thread.

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Originally Posted by Nihility

Blue Mage is incredibly OP
the only way to "fix" it to be a standard class would be to remake it entirely from scratch again and basically make them not a blue mage

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Surely that isn't the only way. There are many solutions for every problem. Not just one.

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Originally Posted by Blueyes

The thing is, SE has pretty much done those things already. They have picked a role for Blue Mage (it's a DPS), it will have a rotation (one similar to Bard, but it's a rotation none the less), and there will be quests that may or may not guide players towards learning certain spells.

It's true that Blue Mage would have to put in extra work compared to other jobs, but shouldn't it be up to the players to decide if they want to put in the work towards using Blue Mage in all content? I don't see why it's such a bad thing to have a job with a different progression system. If you don't want to put up with a Blue Mage who only has Water Cannon, you don't have to, just like you don't have to put up with a Black Mage who only casts ice spells.

SE is being overly protective of Blue Mage. It's like a parent refusing to let their kid go to the park out of fear that their kid will get beaten up.

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Ignore the people making rude comments here. They are just circle jerking fanboys who can't handle people criticising their perfect game.

A sizable chunk of the fandom dislikes the idea of a limited job. It is what it is. A lengthy debate about it until SE decides to do something is inevitable.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Ignore the people making rude comments here. They are just circle jerking fanboys who can't handle people criticising their perfect game.

A sizable chunk of the fandom dislikes the idea of a limited job. It is what it is. A lengthy debate about it until SE decides to do something is inevitable.

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Ayyyyy lol, while I think there is certainly a lack of creativity when it comes to people arguing against the idea of unchain/unlimited* blue mage I don't think you're going to get a lot of opinion changing friends/support with that first sentence XD.

Just a context for people who are wondering for some of the support for blue mage having some element of "unchained/unlimited":

https://i.imgur.com/9nkRZ9A.png
https://i.imgur.com/PYtyiN8.png

It's a fairly decent number being a forum number (forum / reddit being a small sample of the community). That second poll really needs a third question imo, if you want both - I'd prefer not to pick one of those two and I've seen this forum be for a third option of both too (poll from reddit).

* I have seen legitimate (imo) concerns and feedback against it though like "doesn't seem like Yoshi wants that" which seems to be true for now lol (he's changed mind before, like on Summoner bahamut). Some rebuttals are to some of the more bad ideas of fixes, too so I don't want to say all responses are bad. But I wish some would care more to entertain creative solutions rather just say "no impossible", that stuff reminds me a lot of the responses I got when asking for Summoner to get something a bit flashier/neat summon (which we got in the form of Ahk Morn and Demi-Bahamut both of which I think were fantastic and proof of "yes they can").

Not going to police speech but uh.. I wish we could all see more eye to eye here, truely unchain and chained will have very little to no effect on each other - they can exist in the same space.. For those who don't care for unchained.. they don't need to be against it except if they want to play SE's accountant. All of the issues Yoshi has listed against blue mage could be solved with some creativity* and assuming the spaghetti code hasn't introduced an impossibility lol (at the cost of adding some code to duty finder checker and telling players Blue Mage has to learn spells, which I think players WANT even for duty finder, I certainly want to learn blue mage spells even for the duty finder content - that's the charm man lol). *Originally he wanted Blue Mages to learn a lot of spells which is what we're getting, with the "solution" of both chain/unchained (limited/unlimited) we get everything he wanted and what players who wanted to main the job in the first place want.