please God just call it port

and there you'd think they learned to have someone ready to slap Koji on his fingers with a ruler after the whole "Papalymo's final witness" debacle...

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Originally Posted by TalithaSolarien

That AOE marker feels like trolling to me. I have no problems having to react to scripted boss mechanics (like Construct 7 in the Lighthouse) but please don't place markers when you have no chance of reacting to them. That's just evil.

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You can see the attack name in the casting bar before the ground marker is visible. That’s what you’re supposed to respond to. By the time the marker appears, it’s really just to show what ground it covers, so you can learn where to stand. (Particularly important since it does extend beyond the centre line. And for learning to associate the terms with left and right in the first place.)

I rearranged my UI by splitting up the Target Info bar and putting the cast bar at maximum size in the middle of my screen. It’s helped me to notice attacks a lot more.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

I really don't know why you're being so pedantic over this. They are reading it, not hearing it, and if you read it the kanji for it "left" and "right" are present, this is not the case for English, that's 100% the only thing that matters here, not how sagen or ugen are pronounced.

Additionally this is a localization, not translation, things don't need to change in JP for them to change in EN, they change entire lines of text all the time.

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Very simply, it's a feature of kanji that gives you hints about words all the time. If a word is made up of multiple kanji, you can get extra information. But, the actual word to be translated is the nautical term. The same issue would happen in the Temple of the Fist too. I'm betting that there's other times where the kanji helped.

Sure, they changed entire lines of text, but they generally keep the same intent. The intent is for the attack name to to use nautical terms, so they did that in every language.

The exact same issue happens with French and German in that they're using the nautical terms.

The localization consideration is really which term to use larboard or port. I've heard people who say that larboard is easier because the l makes it easier to remember that it's left whereas I (and others) would prefer port.

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Originally Posted by Anselmet

Can't wait for 5.0 when we all get introduced to stern and bow.

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We had Fore/Aft in Temple of the Fist.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

You can see the attack name in the casting bar before the ground marker is visible. That’s what you’re supposed to respond to. By the time the marker appears, it’s really just to show what ground it covers, so you can learn where to stand. (Particularly important since it does extend beyond the center line. And for learning to associate the terms with left and right in the first place.)

I rearranged my UI by splitting up the Target Info bar and putting the cast bar at maximum size in the middle of my screen. It’s helped me to notice attacks a lot more.

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You arent wrong, but the cast bar doesn't help everyone. If a healer isn't targeting Omega, they wont see the bar. Yes, there is focus target, but it has a separate cast bar that is a lot smaller than the focus bar; so it would be difficult to see, unless you max out the size and place it in direct view.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

You arent wrong, but the cast bar doesn't help everyone. If a healer isn't targeting Omega, they wont see the bar. Yes, there is focus target, but it has a separate cast bar that is a lot smaller than the focus bar; so it would be difficult to see, unless you max out the size and place it in direct view.

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That is entirely the purpose of focus target and has been for 5 years. Why is it this one mechanic that people suddenly have a problem with reading and associating skills? We have been doing it for years.

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Originally Posted by Vrahjin

No, it's almost like different people have difficulties with different things. Oh wait..

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Thats got nothing to do with the problem. This is nowhere near the first time that a mechanic requires memorisation of the ability name (despite the name itself not explaining the skill), in fact most complex mechanics "suffer" from this. I'm just trying to work out why having Nautical terms (which explain better than most mechanics) suddenly is unacceptable when Tsukyomis Dark Blade and Bright Blade/Full Moon and New Moon didn't cause any kind of controversy (despite literally being the same mechanic)

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Originally Posted by TalithaSolarien

That AOE marker feels like trolling to me. I have no problems having to react to scripted boss mechanics (like Construct 7 in the Lighthouse) but please don't place markers when you have no chance of reacting to them. That's just evil.

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The AoE marker is ONLY present in Normal not in Savage. The point of the marker is to teach you what the hitbox is, it's not meant for you to be able to react. The reaction must come from reading the name of the attack and pre-positioning yourself before the attack fires off. If it weren't for the AoE marker, you would just die and not know where the safe spot is, especially with animations turned off.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

That is entirely the purpose of focus target and has been for 5 years. Why is it this one mechanic that people suddenly have a problem with reading and associating skills? We have been doing it for years.

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Yeah, it's purpose wasn't in question; but nice try though. And, I don't recall saying I had a hard time with the mechanic.

I think my reply was just stating that the proposed solution doesn't help healers as much as the other jobs, but there is Focus Target. However, the castbar on Focus Target is a lot smaller. So to make it as noticable, as someone mentioned, it would need to be significantly larger.

Oh and the issue people are having is with the delay of the AoE. A delay that is independant of lag. The move counts your placement a few milliseconds before the AoE disappears.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Yeah, it's purpose wasn't in question; but nice try though. And, I don't recall saying I had a hard time with the mechanic.

I think my reply was just stating that the proposed solution doesn't help healers as much as the other jobs, but there is Focus Target. However, the castbar on Focus Target is a lot smaller. So to make it as noticable, as someone mentioned, it would need to be significantly larger.

Oh and the issue people are having is with the delay of the AoE. A delay that is independant of lag. The move counts your placement a few milliseconds before the AoE disappears.

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So latency is the issue? I live in Europe and play on the NA servers, and still have plenty of time to move for the mechanic. I think what is happening is that people aren't anticipating the mechanic when they should be. Its a mechanic that does require thought, and you need to work out which way he is facing ahead of time. If it was a static left/right then nobody would have an issue, but the fact that he might turn catches people off guard. That has nothing to do with the name of the skill, and would still catch people out regardless of whether it is literally called left/right, in fact it would probably be worse that way because people would instinctively move left when in fact they need to move right because it is Omegas left, not the players.

All of that is just an observation though, there is ultimately no issue with the mechanic, and it is just one the players need to practice and get their heads around. Changing the moves name won't change anything, and nerfing the mechanic (which thankfully nobody has mentioned) would be a huge disservice to the encounter. All people can do is pay attention, and commit the mechanic to muscle memory.

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Originally Posted by Khyra

左舷 is "sagen" / port
右舷 is "ugen" / starboard
左 is "hidari" / left
右 is "migi" / right

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I just had a thought regarding this, and the arguments that "it's easier to read in Japanese" and "larboard/starboard look too similar"...

Ignore the meaning of the words, and look at what is visually written.

左舷
右舷

The only visual difference in the Japanese words is the small "square" or "sideways H" element of the first symbol.

In terms of having to quickly identify which word is written, I think it's actually more fair (and possibly even a deliberate choice) to use English terms that have a similar proportion of identical letters.