"Pull Everything" in Dungeon Parties

Tbh I don't even know why threads like this pop up. In all my time healing I always ask at the very beginning "big pulls pretty please with a cherry on top." It breaks the ice and usually tanks comply that they'll try their best. If their best is not cutting it then we can go back to small pulls.

If I go into a dungeon with my friend as a healer, I trust them to heal me through whatever stuff I pull. I also try to "stress" them out by pulling a lot. But they are a WHM, and a friend. If I mess up and wipe us, we laugh and reduce the pulls. I do not do that with random group. I pull a standard size group at the beginning, judge how the team gets through it, and then adjust from there. No reason to speed run if everyone wipes, because then its not really a speed run, is it? And yes, if I warn you and you pull things again... you pull it, you tank it.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

As tank you are expected to be the one making pulls. Proper party procedure. Get it into your head already, GDI.

Hence why

1) It's the tank's responsibility to make pulls that both they and their party can handle
2) if anyone else tries to pull, I assume they must also want to tank whatever they just pulled

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A really sad attitude - one can't help but wonder this seems to be such a problem for you? Are you in fact pulling poorly, increasing the likelyhood of dps grabbing another group while you smack away at a single mob?

From my experience, those making extra pulls as a non-tank are usually the people I want in my party. With the number of dungeons possible to get in leveling, 50/60 etc roulettes, there are many I haven't played in years, and many I haven't played with current gear levels. A risky pull from years ago may be child's play now, or I simply may not know there's another pack around the next corner. Additionally, I can bet that a dps pulling extra mobs knows to use an aoe rotation; sadly this is not a given.

To me it seems nothing more than a case of your ego getting bruised when someone performs part of the role you feel "entitled" to as a tank.

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

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Who told they are hard? Not me. And that's not the meaning of what I said. Please stop understanding halfway depending of your a priori.

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Originally Posted by Eldevern

Who told they are hard? Not me. And that's not the meaning of what I said. Please stop understanding halfway depending of your a priori.

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you implied it by saying "Not everyone mains tanks". it implies that you need to main a tank to be able to handle big pulls...which couldnt be farther from the truth.

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

you implied it by saying "Not everyone mains tanks". it implies that you need to main a tank to handle big pulls...which...is uh...laughable.

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This IS an a priori.

If you had a proper understanding of what I said (my whole sentenceS), you would have understood I was talking about gear! Gear matters especially during levelling. And depending of our main, our priority for gear is not necessary going to tank gear. And it means too when we reach the highest level (mean 70 in SB). White HQ and Blue is somewhat different. No?

I should have wrote, not

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Players who want big pull seem to imagine we all play tank as main and then we necessary have the last highest gear. What if not? They forget this is not only a matter of keeping enimity but damages we and healer can handle.

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but

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Players who want big pull seem to imagine we all play tank as main and then we necessary have the last highest gear. What if not? They forget this is not only a matter of keeping enimity but damages we and healer can handle.

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Having played tank, healer, and DPS for a long time, I'm always amazed there are so many people willing to advocate for tiny pulls...

When I tank, I pull big, even in leveling dungeons. 95% of the time, the DPS are desperate to get out of the dungeon faster, just like I am. No one wants to sit around spending 30 minutes in a dungeon you could finish in 15 or 20 instead, and if you have solid AOE DPS in your group, pulling less is a statistical DPS (and therefore also time) loss. Moreover, most dungeon mobs, even when your gear is slightly below the dungeon's level, don't hit hard enough for a qualified healer to worry about. Case in point: I went through the Sirensong Sea dungeon doing maximum-sized pulls without tank stance at all just to test it. Neither my FC's WHM nor AST had any trouble keeping me up, and no one in our FC (me least of all) claims to be an incredibly talented player. Yet PUG healers have let me die in smaller pulls with tank stance on and in full vit gear in that same dungeon... Saying this as someone who also heals, healers who struggle to keep up in leveling dungeons might want to look at what they're doing too before automatically jumping to the conclusion that a wipe is the tank's fault for pulling too big. Amazingly enough, it is entirely possible for a wipe to happen on a big pull and have it not be the tank's fault!

Another example: needed Bardam's Mettle the other day, but our FC healers weren't on. Decided we'd go with a tank and two RDMs, just to see what would happen. I started out making small pulls, thinking it would be too hard for them to keep me up, but that wasn't the case at all, and I was able to go back to doing big pulls without issue. It took us a tiny bit longer than normal because the DPS had to help heal, but we had zero wipes. Then I ran it again and did the same exact pulls with both the RDMs and a PUG healer... And we wiped on the very first more-than-one-pack pull because my RDMs trusted the healer would... you know... heal. It wasn't that I was pulling "too big" for myself or the DPS; the healer was just plain out bad. And yet what did this person have to say? "Thanks for wiping us tank, don't pull like that if you can't handle it!" Me and the RDMs just busted up in Discord. Of course I was gracious and didn't insult the healer back in any way (in fact, I accepted the blame even though it pissed my DPS off), and proceeded to pull less to suit this healer. Then they proceeded to wipe us on a pull with just one pack of mobs. But you can bet I did so grudgingly, with the knowledge that this person's low skill level literally cost me more time than if they hadn't been there at all.

And the same is true when I heal and have to PUG tanks. 90% of dungeon pulls, even big ones, can basically be slept through if minimal effort is put in by the healer. Largesse->Aspected Benefic/Regen->Profit. Are there hard-hitting mobs thrown in there too? Add your second regen. (I'm sorry SCH, I'm too lazy to list your moves too.) Then DPS for days. Is the tank under-geared or not using cooldowns? Okay, DPS a little less. Problem solved. As a healer, I would far, far prefer being a tiny bit challenged than literally falling asleep because the pulls are so tiny I'm not even needed to heal. Last example, promise: Wanted to go from 60-61 as AST last night and was sick of PotD, so me and my DPS retinue (yes, they're riding my short queue coattails) queued for Sohm Al HM three times. All three times, we got tanks doing tiny pulls. Tiny pulls, in Sohm Al HM! A dungeon that wasn't even hard on the day it came out! The tanks weren't even new! In one instance, one of my DPS asked the tank "Pull more?" to which the tank declared "I decide the pace." Ahaha, nope. You can bet I told my DPS buddy to pull everything he could and then proceeded to easily heal him through it. Because if you don't want to keep up with the pace the majority of your party wants... Well, you can't blame that majority of the party for moving on without you.

tl;dr 'cause I had too many examples on this issue: It's very rare to find a group where more than one person wants to go slow, and in DF, I always assume that the default pace is "as fast as possible." If someone can't keep up at all, yes, you do have to adjust--but the person who couldn't keep up should really take the time to re-examine how they're playing the game, because dungeons, at any level in FFXIV, aren't hard.

you are defending tiny pack by pack pulls in a tank postion, when all he has to do is use flash or unleash three times...

honestly, Tanks have the least problem there. The healers can be overwhelmed for whatever reason and you die. The DPS can be too crap and you die, but wiping because a Tank didnt use flash and a cheeky CD? urgh.
Get down from your Insta-que throne and adapt. Even sprouts pull better these days

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Originally Posted by Eldevern

This IS an a priori.

If you had a proper understanding of what I said (my whole sentenceS), you would have understood I was talking about gear! Gear matters especially during levelling. And depending of our main, our priority for gear is not necessary going to tank gear. And it means too when we reach the highest level (mean 70 in SB). White HQ and Blue is somewhat different. No?

I should have wrote, not



but

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So you are already aware of how important gear is when you tank and YET you would enter a dungeon with your badly geared tank?

Maybe thats just me, but I try to gear up my tank decently enough because I'd hate to be a burden on others...

My, my, my why so many players imagine the motivations, the playtime, playstyle and interest from other players? They are not you and you are not them... People are so fast to judge and abuse of a priori.

The common point of all of them : they all always consider your gear is OP. You are in levelling, it is not your main job, nevermind, just rush, rush, rush.

DF when you are levelling? Short geared? Are you serious? You silly fool.

Seriously...

@Faliandra

What if the dungeon is the way to get gear since you are in levelling? Just do worst, go levelling 70 with Fates, POTD and gear with tomes rather than really playing and training your job?

Seriously?

And the sames are complaining about the level of players. You should revise your way of thinking, sometimes. Your logic is kinda made with contradictions. You are complaining and you call for that...