Forcing NA Duty Finder to be better, we need a grading system.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

Because personal expectation level varies based on the person and when they are introduced to players they are placed with at a random queue it may not be as one expects. For example, if one person performs well as a A rank while another person performs well as a A Rank but does not perform the way that other person would have done things then they would not have met that other person's expectation level.

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I don't think Rice was only talking about skill or play style. They were talking about basic human courtesies like being considerate towards the rest of people in your party; which I have personally seen lacking in a lot of players.

I don't think basic courtesies like consideration and respect towards the fellow human beings in your party is a lot to ask for and typically should fall under the realm of a given instead of 'personal expectations differ so DF is just being DF.'

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

Unless someone is trolling, no one ever wants wipes or slower runs beyond what the team is capable of handling or being considerate to new players watching cutscenes. But we already have in this game a PF system which allows elitist jerks and/or people who are higher skilled but not elitist to form groups of like minded, equally skilled people. If do not like the fact DF in NA and EU servers is used for new players and has a large variation in skill levels plus hate using PF to do what I just suggested then play on a JP server if prefer their method.

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It's kinda funny when you see people jump into a topic clearly only read a selected few posts and start calling everyone elitist this elitist that. Who said they hate new players in DF? Most people here only want that any player in DF would at least try or put in effort to learn or do their job. No kind of excuse can be justified for a (not new) player at level 60 in i220+ doing 300-500 dps (which is basically not even 50% of what they should be able to do, and not even have to try that hard to reach).

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Should we have no expectations of the basic foundation of gameplay in DF, then? Should the lack of performance be a justifiable thing on DF? I don't think anyone wants that to be the case, let alone have DF content tuned so that its passable. It creates that severe gap in ski and eventually boredom

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Outside of EX and Savage most DF content tends to be okay for most people, most players exceed the basic foundations of gameplay argument you are trying to use as an excuse and it is only the occasional bad player or bad group. They are the exception and not the rule. Stop pretending you only want people to grasp the basic foundations of gameplay, most people in DF already do so and a few bad apples do not change that. These days elitists knowing that they are despised tend to hide behind the excuse "We just want them to know the basic fundamentals of their class" when in reality what they really want is "We want to punish anyone who does not far exceed the basic fundamentals of their class".

Maybe you should go play on the Japanese servers if you think they do it better. This is why SE locked out certain content from DF such as Extreme primals and later unlocked so anyone can try to do it.

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Originally Posted by MihaelB

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As great as this would be, it will never ever happen. It would require a lot of dev work to make a grading system that worked properly, and they would never put in that kind of effort for an NA-only problem.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Maybe you should go play on the Japanese servers if you think they do it better. This is why SE locked out certain content from DF such as Extreme primals.

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In mid 2016 there were a mass exodus of "elitist" players from NA/EU server to JP servers, the casual players who stayed celebrated their victories in keeping the game fun for everyone, and the "right" for people to play however they want. Later that year with 3.4 release, SE had to put out several emergency hotfixes for NA/EU server to double/triple nerf most of the story trials in order to help players get pass certain part of the stories. This did't go well with the "elitist" who are currently playing in JP server since their version got affected too. Next year, in order to fix the root of the problem, SE released FFXIV mobile version, specific targeting the NA/EU player base. It was a huge success, people only need to tap the screen for their character to attack or heal. A "premium" version even have the "auto all", and include a side windows for your favorite netflix/youtube shows.

P.S: I also heard many progression tracking website had to adjust to add the normal version of 8-man content too, for NA/EU NA/EU-first.

P.P.S: add obligated /s tag just in case.

I am not pretending. The bare expectation I have when I go into DF for anything is for people to know their 1-2-3 combo and how their Abilties work. Is it elitist of me for a Blm at level 60 to understand how their III spells to work, or that alternating between fire and blizzard I is inefficient?

Is that seriously too much to ask for? Don't read too deep into what I'm looking for, while its the exception, it still happens more than I'd like, and responses like yours make it feel like you're justifying that sort of thing. You're applying your viewpoint toward that exception is my issue, and I feel that it's also the case for other people.

Quite frankly, if there's so much resistance to ANY idea on this side of the pond to even encourage players to perform even slightly better to alleviate the current crappy reputation Duty Finder has, then we don't really deserve to be taken seriously by the Japanese devs in matters regarding new content and balancing. There is a reason they only really field glamour questions from us.

While this idea is particularly crappy, I've seen more reasonable things shot down because of calls of elitism too. Hell, last week I gave out advice on how to handle meteors in Wiping City, and what did I get from another fellow 'mentor'? He thought I was disrespecting him. Does the concept of constructive criticism not exist here anymore?

Those elitist usually quit after 1-2 wipes anyways so does really matter if they stick around or not cause they not helping the weaker clear the content anyways.

You do not punish everyone else in DF with a vindictive and spiteful idea like the OP's which further segregates and splits the community plus forces longer queue times just because of a few bad apples. As said they are the exception and not the rule, if desire a lower chance of running into bad apples (specifically one's that may not be on par with your desired skill level) then you already have a tool in your arsenal you can use called PF which is less random and is more controlled.

This excuse of "only want people to at least know the fundamentals..." I see too often these days from the same sort of people who also expect everyone to give 110% in lower level more casual content or bash others for taking 20 minutes to clear instead of 15 minutes or them hating on new players having the audacity to slow them down because the new player wanted to watch the cutscene for their first time there. A party wide parser supporter who sometimes single out and harass people for not topping their DPS charts or the sort of people who insult those who simply made a mistake or two in a run. The kind of person who demands people far exceed the required ilvl instead of meeting the minimum requirement.

In reality the truth of the matter is most people in DF know the fundamentals of their class and perform adequately so that excuse is a poor one which even vindictive or elitist people use/hide behind...it is only the occasional bad player or bad group which does not perform adequately and using them as the benchmark/the baseline, imposing damaging changes on the majority like the OP's idea is not the right way to go about tackling what is for the most part a small percentage of really bad players. We already have tools in this game for dealing with the worst offenders (vote kick) and tools for minimizing your exposure to them (PF).

DF pulls from a vastly larger pool of players across multiple servers and with much wider variance in skill levels, you cannot set your own restrictions and specifications on DF parties unlike PF so you are bound to come across more bad players in DF...but such players are still a small fraction of the DF users and you do have the tools to cope with and even avoid that if you lack the patience and willingness to deal with the occasional occurrence of such via vote kicks, vote abandons, report functions and even using PF instead.