Please consider changing the role of normal mode Alexander in future patches

Printable View

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

08-27-2015, 01:23 AM
Itachi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renault

Also, I don't really care so much for the story, I just don't want to be forced to raid the same boss model 10-30 times before doing it on savage.

No one is forcing you. However, if you want to raid at bleeding edge level, you are expected to make sacrifices for the guild.

Raiding the same boss model on normal difficulty 10-30 times for gear is one of those.
Even if Alex Savage came out 2 weeks before normal mode, you would still be required to raid Alex normal to fill corresponding item slots to progress on Alex savage 3 and 4.

And Alex normal not dropping gear is a douche thing to ask for and it's not going to happen.
08-27-2015, 01:49 AM
hagare

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miscreant

Maybe forced is a strong word, but without doing Alexander Normal you aren't getting past Faust on day one. Now consider that players had been looking forward to this raid for months, they wanted to go into A1S on day one.

Well that's the consequences of being in progression.

It's the same thing like using pots and tanks using str gear + healers DPSing to get past DPS checks when you're under the intended iLvL gate.
08-27-2015, 02:08 AM
Kosmos992k

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miscreant

Maybe forced is a strong word, but without doing Alexander Normal you aren't getting past Faust on day one. Now consider that players had been looking forward to this raid for months, they wanted to go into A1S on day one.

OK, I understand, but I can't see that as a realistic expectation for day 1, or even week 1. I mean seriously, how impatient are people that they must walk into the savage mode raid on Day 1 of an expansion release?
08-27-2015, 02:15 AM
Eidolon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

OK, I understand, but I can't see that as a realistic expectation for day 1, or even week 1. I mean seriously, how impatient are people that they must walk into the savage mode raid on Day 1 of an expansion release?

I mean, it's how they have fun - they enjoy being that group on the bleeding edge. It's not for me - clearly it isn't, or maybe it is with the right people (Left an FC over the fact that I just didn't have fun doign exactly that with them.)

But some people don't find the casual content to be enjoyable. That's a matter of fact. So what's wrong with enabling the hardcore to enjoy their raids, while simultaneously enabling the casual gamer to enjoy the story?

Keep in mind, the whole purpose of Story mode wasn't to hinder the Savage mode players - it was to enable the players who were left behind on story in Raids to be able to see that very self-same story. At the moment, you're now in turn requiring people to either wait weeks on end to do a raid (To get full eso) or to grind out Alexander Story for 5 weeks to get entry into Alexander Savage. This required grind - and forced gating - cheapens the experience for the Savage mode player, who wants to see unique mechanics, strong gameplay, and enjoy exploring new content.

I love the story mode. I just honestly wish it was a sidegrade option to Law and was just as unlimited as Law instead of being a step up from Law.
08-27-2015, 02:24 AM
Nadirah

So what you're saying is, "we don't want people that don't raid Savage to have gear upgrades past law."
08-27-2015, 02:28 AM
Nadirah

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miscreant

Ah sorry I completely misunderstood you, but yeah I see what you mean, I hope that it wont be the case in the next raid, while I don't have any problem with the normal mode, I would personally rather skip the normal mode entirely, I kind of miss the bosses being a surprise. The first time I went into T12 I was an awe, not just for the boss but the setting as well...but without the added pressure of it being a hard fight I doubt that feeling would be recreated so easily.

Maybe forced is a strong word, but without doing Alexander Normal you aren't getting past Faust on day one. Now consider that players had been looking forward to this raid for months, they wanted to go into A1S on day one.

Then they'd have had to drop its difficulty to match available gear and not have it drop 210.
08-27-2015, 02:29 AM
Kosmos992k

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eidolon

I mean, it's how they have fun - they enjoy being that group on the bleeding edge. It's not for me - clearly it isn't, or maybe it is with the right people (Left an FC over the fact that I just didn't have fun doign exactly that with them.)

But some people don't find the casual content to be enjoyable. That's a matter of fact. So what's wrong with enabling the hardcore to enjoy their raids, while simultaneously enabling the casual gamer to enjoy the story?

OK, however, that is the problem with playing a game, especially an MMORPG, with such a narrow focus. It limits your expectations and almost guarantees dissatisfaction in the long run.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eidolon

Keep in mind, the whole purpose of Story mode wasn't to hinder the Savage mode players - it was to enable the players who were left behind on story in Raids to be able to see that very self-same story. At the moment, you're now in turn requiring people to either wait weeks on end to do a raid (To get full eso) or to grind out Alexander Story for 5 weeks to get entry into Alexander Savage. This required grind - and forced gating - cheapens the experience for the Savage mode player, who wants to see unique mechanics, strong gameplay, and enjoy exploring new content.

I love the story mode. I just honestly wish it was a sidegrade option to Law and was just as unlimited as Law instead of being a step up from Law.

If anyone's subscription and playtime in this game is predicated on Alexander Savage mode alone, they really, really need to do one of two things. Either resolve yourself to the fact that this is a very limited selection of the available content and deal with it, or find something else to do with your time. I'm not saying that to annoy or insult, but seriously if the 4 floors of Alex Savage are the sole reason for someone to play, I honestly think that they would be better quitting FFXIV and finding something more suited to their taste.

The fact is that this MMORPG serves a very wide audience and has content covering every level of ability in that audience. If you imagine the content as a pyramid with Alex Savage as the capstone at the top. Think about how little of the pyramid Alex Savage mode represents. If someone is paying for and playing this (or any other game) and that capstone is the only part of the game they enjoy, isn't it self evident what course of action they should take?
08-27-2015, 02:34 AM
Nadirah

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renault

You still haven't read my original post and comprehended my points. Also, I can tell you're not a progression raider, because your view points on how gearing works contradicts that of a progression raider. If you simply "wait to get eso gear" you're not bringing your all to the team. I'm not saying this opinion is wrong, or that it's bad, but it's just not an option for those of us who ARE pushing progression.

Because this is the only MMO I've ever played in the almost 15 years I've been raiding.

Uh huh. Got it.
08-27-2015, 02:36 AM
Nadirah

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miscreant

Do you want any more salt with that post? SE tuned Faust with the 190 Alexander Normal gear in mind, I like all of the assumptions you just made about me in that one post though, those dirty casuals don't deserve a normal mode right?

One thing I do expect is to be able to go into the serious raid the day it's released, I already waited months for it as it is. Also I don't care about world or sever firsts, I like playing hard fights but I also have a 9-5 career.

Oh and I don't have any problem with Alexander NM either, I would rather I didn't have to do NM before Savage but it's how SE built the game, I'll just get on with it without crying about it.

Then why are you crying about it? Only salty ones in here are the folks agreeing with OP.
08-27-2015, 02:53 AM
Eidolon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

OK, however, that is the problem with playing a game, especially an MMORPG, with such a narrow focus. It limits our expectations and almost guarantees dissatisfaction in the long run.

That is a playstyle, though. It should be respected as such, right? Otherwise, that's like saying that those who wanted to see the story of FFXIV during Coil days "Had such a narrow focus", and that it was "Limiting their expectations" - It's the kind of arguement that can go around to everything, and doesn't really serve to better the game at all.

Square's proven they can accomodate multiple playstyles. I encourage them to keep it diverse and keep as many groups as happy as possible.

Quote:

If anyone's subscription and playtime in this game is predicated on Alexander Savage mode alone, they really, really need to do one of two things. Either resolve yourself to the fact that this is a very limited selection of the available content and deal with it, or find something else to do with your time. I'm not saying that to annoy or insult, but seriously if the 4 floors of Alex Savage are the sole reason for someone to play, I honestly think that they would be better quitting FFXIV and finding something more suited to their taste.

I'm sure they're not the sole reason, but is it unrealistic to believe that such progression would be the -height- of their enjoyment? That it's something they are anticipating, looking forward to, and psyched to do?

Many people look forward to updates for casual content, such as World of Darkness? Should these people "Find something else to do with their time" if they were suddenly blocked out from running those raids until 3-4 arbitrary weeks of grinding Expert dungouns after the patch drops? Should they be expect to "Deal with it" if they want to be in there right when servers go up when things go live?

The answer is no, that'd be silly. And it's likewise silly to treat Raiders any differently. Let the group the content is targetted for - enjoy the content the way it's meant to be.

Quote:

The fact is that this MMORPG serves a very wide audience and has content covering every level of ability in that audience. If you imagine the content as a pyramid with Alex Savage as the capstone at the top. Think about how little of the pyramid Alex Savage mode represents. If someone is paying for and playing this (or any other game) and that capstone is the only part of the game they enjoy, isn't it self evident what course of action they should take?

You assume this means that's -all- they can enjoy. I think it's moreso about enabling them to enjoy the content without hindering them as the current model stipulates.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadirah

Then why are you crying about it? Only salty ones in here are the folks agreeing with OP.

I believe there are ... 'salty' people on both sides, and people who are b eing perfectly reasonable on both side.s Miscreant stated their position very intelligently and maturely - I don't see any 'salt' in it. c:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadirah

So what you're saying is, "we don't want people that don't raid Savage to have gear upgrades past law."

Actually, no. That doesn't make sense - because no one's stopping them from getting Esoterics. And no one's stopping them from getting into Alexander Savage, either. What I'm saying is very simple.

Alexander Story should serve to be on the same level as Tomestones of Law (Or whatever the unlimited cap at the time is) as a side-grade for items available. This way, players are enabled further customization as well as having the option of which path they wish to take. At the moment, you have one option for i180, and one option for i190, one option for i200 (likely to be fixed with 3.1's new raid) and two options available for i210. Compressing this with more efficient overlap will keep gear more relevant and likewise enable players to further gear as they wish.

Simply put, what I'm saying is the design of making it so that Alexander Story is a capped piece of content that's required for raiders is bad design - for both the casual gamer, and the hardcore gamer. However, at the moment, my focus in on the hardcore/raider, so perhaps that doesn't come across well.

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page