[REQUEST] Remove coil weekly lockouts

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Wouldn't the idea of special snowflake in this case be the ones who want an easy way out of beating content (aka your idea)?

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As much as I dislike the fact that he uses the term snowflake, I think its debatable. I would say the people who are so crazy about wins that they scare away new players are definitely in the "special snow-flake" category, because even if they didn't start out as such, they are now the ones that want easy wins, while the new guy just wants to see the content.

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Originally Posted by Fendred

As much as I dislike the fact that he uses the term snowflake, I think its debatable. I would say the people who are so crazy about wins that they scare away new players are definitely in the "special snow-flake" category, because even if they didn't start out as such, they are now the ones that want easy wins, while the new guy just wants to see the content.

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Generally not my favorite term (as it is meant to insult) but I thought interesting that such a short sentence had so many likes:

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Originally Posted by Totobi

Removing the lockout will upset all the special snowflakes.

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And seeing each persons main focus in defense was boiling down to "don't care they can't come in, not my concern, I don't want to see more people with the gear, you've got be hardcore and spend time leveling alts, only people who can devote strict hours of their weeks to form parties should do this content until it is old content". Sort of leads together.

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Originally Posted by Codek

This is completely ignoring the time commitment it takes for people to learn the fights as a group. This is the artificial time sink imposed by character lock-outs that was intended by the developers.

If everyone is clearing coil in 2-hours, then they clearly don't need help from others...

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I never said that people clear the entire thing in two hours a week. Also, I corrected it while you were posting this to say 2 to 4 hours a week. I'm aware some groups try to do coil in six hour blocks, but those people are more an exception than the norm.

Given that a single character can fulfill any role and level new classes far easier than a new character can, it doesn't leave any real incentives to raise a new character. They'd be spending double digit hours doing something they absolutely do not want to do.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

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My idea of special snowflake is someone who feels entitled to something just because the game doesn't specifically cater to their needs.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

My idea of special snowflake is someone who feels entitled to something just because the game doesn't specifically cater to their needs.

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Game should be game, but I like your definition! lol

Game being a game means that there should be no accidental stress, all stress should either be good stress (to better reap rewards) or removed- the main purpose of the lockout currently, imo, is to ensure people dont hit the end of the game and complain where is the content?! I agree to this purpose, having a loot lockout does the exact same thing. Social stress induced is unnecessary therefore it should be removed when possible.

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Originally Posted by Fendred

There is a massive time difference between the two activities. Raiding Coil takes at most two, maybe four hours a week on average. Raising a new character all the way to lvl 50 and gearing him/her up from scratch is in the upper double digits range for hours played. They are no where near comparable activities in terms of time. Also, a raider needs to do other things on his main to acquire resources, and there are many other activities to do in the game outside of raiding.

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Completely agree, we shouldn't even have to need to create another character just to work around the lockout system. I understand they want to keep people playing (which people would, and actually be more encouraged to level their alts), but the least they could do is limit it to the job rather than the character.

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Originally Posted by Fendred

I never said that people clear the entire thing in two hours a week. Also, I corrected it while you were posting this to say 2 to 4 hours a week. I'm aware some groups try to do coil in six hour blocks, but those people are more an exception than the norm.

Given that a single character can fulfill any role and level new classes far easier than a new character can, it doesn't leave any real incentives to raise a new character. They'd be spending double digit hours doing something they absolutely do not want to do.

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That's why it's great that the lock-out is removed immediately upon the obsoletion of the content.

The true question is, why would this be needed now? The intent is that since the content is literally the end of the line, it needs to have that time sink. The biggest being forcing a group of 8 players together that don't know the fight so that they can struggle to complete the task as they all learn the ins-and-outs of it. The gear lock only inhibits the best players from getting everything as soon as possible (and it doesn't even do that!). The main inhibitor for people is the fact that most groups just simply can't clear Coil (at least not yet).

All the suggestions made in this thread are counter productive towards maintaining the time commitment. And, since this is only temporary until the line of progression is increased, there really is no reason to let up on it.

The concept of supporting a lock-out among roles is a close solution as it forces players who already know the fight into situations that they may not already know how to handle. But the possibility that a player can swap from Pal to War (or something similar) would still defeat the artificial struggle that was meant to be imposed.

The only reason leveling an alt is suggested is because it is still a time commitment but it's also a one time deal (for leveling) and then it is a great work around if you as a player have the time to commit to two different groups for coil.

We have big Free Company, Big linkshell and the party for the best raid are locked at 8 people.

The way to solve it is simple,just put a flag on the clear where a player can loot only the first time he close it up.

This lockout divide the community and doesn't allow the member of an FC to help each other filling the space when a static have trouble to start, like now in an holidays period.

Perhaps someone who has played recently can shed more light onto it, I haven't, but I found this interesting:

http://wowpedia.org/Raid_Finder

Specially since people have mentioned WoW and FFXIV following in its steps - this section in particular is my focus:

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Raid Finder uses a system called Personal Loot. When a boss is killed for the first time each week, every player has a fixed percentage chance of receiving a loot item. For each player, the game will decide whether the player will receive loot. If so, the game will then select a class- and spec-appropriate item from the boss's loot table and immediately deposit the item into the player's inventory. The specialization is the one the player is using at the time of the boss's death, and is not related to the role chosen by the player when queueing for the raid. All players who do not receive a loot item will instead be issued a bag of gold. All loot gained through this method is strictly Bind on Pickup and can not be traded with other players.
Bosses may only be looted once per week, though they can be run as often as desired.

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Apparently they even have a way to make second runs worth it:

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Extra loot rolls
Level 90 players can choose to use an [Elder Charm of Good Fortune] (for Patch 5.0 bosses), [Mogu Rune of Fate] (for Patch 5.2 bosses) or [Warforged Seal] (for Patch 5.4 bosses) for an additional roll on loot after every attempt. This second roll works just like the first roll does and will not affect in any way other players' loot.
A charm may also be used, on most bosses, for an additional roll even on subsequent kills during the same week. For example, a player may return to Lei Shi and kill her a second time, receiving no loot by default, but use a charm and get another chance. Notable exceptions include the Sha of Anger and Sha of Fear, on whom only one charm may be used per week.

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WoW's raids are apparently dynamic in player count and are usually more than 8 person in the first place XD (I played back when it was fixed, I knew about this before though).

If someone else has some info on that, cause its just a wiki- that'd be neat. Point here wasn't to say look WoW did it, FFXIV must. Just that apparently there is a similar idea in practice already.

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Originally Posted by Makado

There is no actual type of lockout. As mentioned, the only lockout you experience is from someone not wanting to make another character. If they really wanted to play with their group and another group this is so easy to do, especially now with easy ways to gear up quickly.

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Yes, I'm going to expand my sub, re-do all the story quests to level to 50, re-do all the dungeons, re-gears myself to ilevel 90+, level another job for cross class skills, re-do all the dungeons to unlock Coil 2, all while each of my friends wait for me to level one character for each of them and while keeping my main character up to date. THIS IS BRILLIANT.

Why doesn't everyone use this method, I wonder?

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Originally Posted by Codek

It's a bit counter intuitive that a player has the time to run multiple groups through coil, but not the time to run multiple characters through it.

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I'll give you an hint: one thing is fun, and involves playing with your friends, the other isn't.