I just wanted to point out a double standard...

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Originally Posted by givemeraptors

To clarify, I meant they don't mean anything in telling you that someone is doing good DPS, since like you said it happens automatically as you punch/kick things. A MNK that more actively switches between fists (doesn't have a CD or reset your combos so why wouldn't you?) is showing that they go the extra mile and are most likely putting extra effort into the rest of their playstyle i.e. probably not slacking in the DPS department. Especially if you opt to get stomped by Geocrush to maintain GL; from a healer's perspective the people who don't group for heals really annoy me, but I give them a pass if they at least make an effort at mitigation (Manaward, FoE).

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Not true. Monk does crap for DPS when they don't keep GL3. It happens automatically but the upkeep is not automatic. It allows you 6 seconds of disconnect at most to keep it up. As for why I wouldn't, Fist abilities have a recast timer of 3 seconds shared between 3 fists that you can weave in between skills but it requires at least 1 GCD skill in-between to switch between stances optimally. It does show that the monk in question does make an effort to go the extra mile in the damage taken reduction. The question is whether that extra mile is worth it. I think not most of the time. I know I used to play safe and stack with other people and let they cure 3 and heal all of us but they love me even more when I play recklessly (the good kind) to keep that GL3 up since I do more dps = boss die faster = they have to heal less. Different opinions I guess. I'd rather kill the boss a little bit faster than stay alive longer.

I guess it's just me but when I'm healing I'm not really paying attention to your damage output. I'm more paying attention to your HP bar cause, you know, that's the thing I actually deal with. That and your debuffs. Everything else is on you and so long as you aren't just sitting there doing your best Manderville then I'm peachy. Seriously, I'm a healer when I'm healing, not your coach or your sempai.

I think most of the pro-Parser people are greatly overestimating the maturity and level headedness of the player base at large. Sure you can have data, but if you don't know how to read it or take into account situations that occurred during the fight that may have cause one player to drop off or one to show a higher % of the DPS then you might as well have nothing at all.

If you've ever worked in retail or even some office environments they are always running reports, reports you WILL be judged by. Many of you may have encountered a know-nothing supervisor who read said report and determined you were lacking without doing any research into why your numbers may have been lower in that particular instance/day perhaps due to an unscheduled meeting or a system issue. Possibly due to an irate customer issue that took up a significant chunk of time.

The real issue isn't whether or not we should have this data available, but if the player base should be trusted to review and ascertain the performance of other players and will they used that information correctly and responsibly.

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

Just to make sure I'm reading this correctly:

Are you warning us against actual data like it's some kind of boogeyman, or are you warning us against angry people with justifiable claims?

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I should have been more specific. I am all for parsers when used on a personal level only. Self-improvement is a good thing. However, there are a good number of people in this community who are already prats to the nth degree, and giving them an official parser that would allow them to see everyone's output I think would damage the community even more.

Who gets to determine what a "justifiable" claim is? What good would it really do to see exactly how far off someone is from the ideal skill-level you have in your mind? If someone is doing that poorly, you will be able to tell without seeing actual numbers.

To refer back to the part of my post you cut out - if you want to ensure you are dealing with only the most skilled players in game, stick to your friends/FC and others you know who can get the job done.

But to answer your question, I suppose my concern would be over the angry people in game. No need to give them more tools to further their asshattery, justifiable or not.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

But to answer your question, I suppose my concern would be over the angry people in game. No need to give them more tools to further their asshattery, justifiable or not.

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So, my personal opinion on the matter of harassment stemming from parsers is this: The people who would harass based on a parse are the people we don't need in the community anyway, and I have no qualms seeing them get banned. If that means a period of high-volume reporting to clean up the community as a whole, I'm all for it.

If the combined DPS output of me and the ranged guy is low, it's always PAINFULLY obvious... no need of parsers.

Oh look it's this thread again. Is the horse not pounded into soup yet?

I think adding bonus tomes, exp, and gil for speed completions would solve a large portion of this. That would be incentive for players to perform better.

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Originally Posted by Goodberry

If the combined DPS output of me and the ranged guy is low, it's always PAINFULLY obvious... no need of parsers.

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Where's the argument in there ?

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

So, my personal opinion on the matter of harassment stemming from parsers is this: The people who would harass based on a parse are the people we don't need in the community anyway, and I have no qualms seeing them get banned. If that means a period of high-volume reporting to clean up the community as a whole, I'm all for it.

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People are blowing the "people will be harassed" things way out of proportion.

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Originally Posted by givemeraptors

I'm not dashing anyone's opinions. I've barely stated anything about my personal opinion on parsers aside from that final statement (which isn't strongly worded at all). All I've been doing is elaborating that there are other ways to see how someone was performing.

I understand not everyone can multitask. But out of a group of 8 (especially in a progression oriented static) not a single person can be bothered to take note of these things? Healers are already looking at the party list constantly, does it really hurt your performance to glance at the buffs every once in a while as you click on people's names? The whole point is progression and improvement. Isn't everyone supposed to be learning, helping and observing each other anyway? If eight players are that concerned with meeting DPS checks and none can be bothered to look at the party list except to see who died, I think there are other things holding the group back.

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The thing you're missing is that players can keep these things up like you would expect them to to do good DPS. And then not do good DPS. There are things you cannot see. They might not have enough accuracy, and without inspecting their gear and doing the math, you might not know. They might be pausing longer between each GCD ability than they need to, and that time could only be a fraction of a second. Is Garuda on obey during a single target fight, since her multi hit ability lowers her DPS in that case?

I'll be the first to say not to harass someone. But they are part of the group, they need to be held accountable for their role in the group, just like the rest of us.