Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

So you consistently burst to 1100 huh.

got my relic and completed ct last night

Congrats!

Syn

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Originally Posted by Hakmatic

So you consistently burst to 1100 huh.

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Only with a good chunk of crits, you know the drill :(

Also Whiskey, crit damage is not really linear, there's that +69% crit damage poppin here and then without any good reason, its just luck. Just open your combat log and you'll see it, be it with or without buffs activated

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Originally Posted by Sygmaelle

You can activate it just a tad before ct activation it work too, aslong you got it with sweep otherwise yeah, your problem will occur

I've been doin ~1100 dps with X pot + food + group on the opener, but yeah its just luck on the crits. Around 940ish without group

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You mean B4B works if I use CT then pop B4B before the animation and the " + Chaos Thrust" pops?

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Originally Posted by Sygmaelle

Also Whiskey, crit damage is not really linear, there's that +69% crit damage poppin here and then without any good reason, its just luck. Just open your combat log and you'll see it, be it with or without buffs activated

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Not so concerned with figuring crit as a whole, just for how to calculate the impact of Life Surge. 50% boost seems about right based on the damage recorded.

Also, I'm not saying my "rotation" is better than anything else. Someone asked about B4B dropping off before the second full thrust, and I showed them how to fix it without it messing up the rest of the rotation. After further analysis, the +/-100 potency is more or less a wash, as you are losing some potency on the HT afterwards, but it does maximize B4B duration without funky stuff going on. Nothing more, nothing less.

Can we just find a way to do 500 dps on turn 8 already :p

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Originally Posted by Hakmatic

Can we just find a way to do 500 dps on turn 8 already :p

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If you guys haven't figured that out already.. It's probably a lost cause lol

I think it's just a fundamental difference between the jobs. Not exactly fair, but we can hope some adjustments are made. I would say our ST damage is limited due to having pretty good AoE (even if it's never really needed), but that doesn't really make sense now since BLM has the best AoE and damn near the best ST damage after being buffed.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

If you guys haven't figured that out already.. It's probably a lost cause lol

I think it's just a fundamental difference between the jobs. Not exactly fair, but we can hope some adjustments are made. I would say our ST damage is limited due to having pretty good AoE (even if it's never really needed), but that doesn't really make sense now since BLM has the best AoE and damn near the best ST damage after being buffed.

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DRGs can pull 500+, but it requires Selene and TP song. I pulled 420-430 dps w/o Selene already.

Is it true that SE patched fall damage after Elusive Jumping off a cliff?

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Originally Posted by VladTepes

DRGs can pull 500+, but it requires Selene and TP song. I pulled 420-430 dps w/o Selene already.

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Show me one. Selene Doesnt make 70-80dps difference.

I could see 470 to 480~ as realistic with Potent Poison Pots, really good pot usage, absolutely no duties or towers, some good Dread DoT milking, Selene, not being the one to use LB3, ending at a good time based on DRG CDs, and in general a good run with lots of crits. I haven't seen it myself but I bet some crazy DRGs out there have pulled it. 500 on a realistic level, without an incredibly lucky amount of crits or the absurdity I'm going to suggest below, seems really unlikely to me.

I suppose if 500's something the group as a whole would indulge, if you really want a way, here are some suggestions for possible ways (note: completely unrealistic to get a group to do these things, I'm not suggesting anyone try these, just a fun theory for attempting to maximize a DRG's DPS at the expense of the party's fun/DPS):

Keep the Dreads alive as long as possible. Only the DRG may touch it, DoTs + potential Doomspikes + Mercy Stroke, with the BRD playing Army's as much as needed. Bring two SCHs with Selene each, alternating the skill speed buff so it's permanent. Find out when the highlight of your DPS is based on CDs within the 6-8 minute mark, and tune your group's DPS to finish the fight around then. Restart the fight over and over until you reach 500 DPS.

If all that fails, wear minimal ACC gear in favor of DPS substats and repeat the fight enough times that you have 100% hit rate, and see what you can reach. Unfortunately, 2.4 would probably come out before a zero miss run occurred.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

I could see 470 to 480~ as realistic with Potent Poison Pots, really good pot usage, absolutely no duties or towers, some good Dread DoT milking, Selene, not being the one to use LB3, ending at a good time based on DRG CDs, and in general a good run with lots of crits. I haven't seen it myself but I bet some crazy DRGs out there have pulled it. 500 on a realistic level, without an incredibly lucky amount of crits or the absurdity I'm going to suggest below, seems really unlikely to me.

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Realistically, depends on your party mix and skills. Let me elaborate.

1. a) If you're going with 2 tank party, OT can take on homing & mines. Which would put an extra burner on TP since you're not on any duty.
b) otherwise, you're the next beefiest person on the list. Suck it up and adjust accordingly and try not to get distracted over your rotations.

2. a) If you're going with multiple bard party, get someone to be on perm Army's Paeon Duty if you can, battle voiced whenever possible. Unless party is derp and keeps taking unnecessary damage and healers are eating mana healing on afterburners which in most cases you will wipe probably anyway.
b) If you're going with 1 bard, 3 magic dpsers, then suck it up you're never going to have your army's paeon as Foe Requiem and Mage's Ballad will take precedence.

You can choose to be that selfish prick and take top DPS, or do what is best for your party. At the end of the day, as long as you can pass the turn and get your loots, nobody really cares.

As a personal challenge, know what your DRG is capable of under what circumstances (party, mechanics, etc), and do it every time.

whether you can hit 500 or not ever in T8, doesn't really matter.

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Originally Posted by Hakmatic

Show me one. Selene Doesnt make 70-80dps difference.

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Yeah and you should be able to pull 460ish without Selene / poison pots in Turn 8 if you don't do any mechanic.

There was never a suggestion for nerfing the rest group just so the DRG could do their absolute best. Just stating what would be necessary to pull it off.

I think you need to read what you're replying to before replying.

Hi people.

I've got an issue. I usually hit a 340-380 constant DPS on T8, as a ilvl 103 DRG. (I am doing mechanics like tower and I usually run out of range for allagan field).
I saw people here doing up to 500. How do you do ?

My rotation is mostly this one :

HT-IR-ID-BFB-Dis-Sweep-CT-PS-Ph-Jump-TT-VT-LS-FT-HT-TT-VT-Sweep-FT-Ph-ID-Dis-CT-HT-TT-VT-Sweep-FT-Ph-Jump-TT-VT-FT

Then using cooldowns with buffs as soon as available while following this : http://i.imgur.com/hJFTfLf.png .

How to hit at least 400+ DPS ? Am I doing something wrong like, am I forgetting something ?

Thank you very much for your help. :)

No one here is doing 500 on dragoon. Dont worry to much lol. Also dont run out of range for allagan field. Stay on the boss. Your tether person should be able to ensure you dont get hit.

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Originally Posted by Shisma

Hi people.

I've got an issue. I usually hit a 340-380 constant DPS on T8, as a ilvl 103 DRG. (I am doing mechanics like tower and I usually run out of range for allagan field).
I saw people here doing up to 500. How do you do ?

My rotation is mostly this one :

HT-IR-ID-BFB-Dis-Sweep-CT-PS-Ph-Jump-TT-VT-LS-FT-HT-TT-VT-Sweep-FT-Ph-ID-Dis-CT-HT-TT-VT-Sweep-FT-Ph-Jump-TT-VT-FT

Then using cooldowns with buffs as soon as available while following this : http://i.imgur.com/hJFTfLf.png .

How to hit at least 400+ DPS ? Am I doing something wrong like, am I forgetting something ?

Thank you very much for your help. :)

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You're doing just fine for dealing with mechanics. Also that astrum gear isn't the most optimal. Too much skill speed (for me anyway) where I prefer to go for gear with determination. You'll improve dps some as you continue to get high allagan drops and/or unweather some of that astrum.

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Originally Posted by mythicrose

You're doing just fine for dealing with mechanics. Also that astrum gear isn't the most optimal. Too much skill speed (for me anyway) where I prefer to go for gear with determination. You'll improve dps some as you continue to get high allagan drops and/or unweather some of that astrum.

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I also didn't see them mention anything about pots. Which does boost your dps by a good amount.

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Originally Posted by Tilgung

There was never a suggestion for nerfing the rest group just so the DRG could do their absolute best. Just stating what would be necessary to pull it off.

I think you need to read what you're replying to before replying.

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I think you missed the whole point totally bro. We're stating some optimal situations a DRG can do their absolute best and on the contrary what compositions may make DRG unable to do their absolute best. I don't think anyone suggested nerfing the rest of the group all the time just so DRG can hog top honours on the DPS chart.

As long as your party can strike the balance of enhancing each other's play and damage enough to clear the turn, it's fine. My party literally gave our BLM no role in T8 just so he can be a turret BLM and >90% of the time he pulls top dps cause of the gameplay that the party allows him to do. And to enhance the play even better, my 2 bard's priority are to battle voice Foe Requiem as long as BVoice is up, Mage's Ballad when needed, and 3X10s burst of Army's Paeon being lowest priority as and when i need it to bridge invigorate. It works for us to clear the turn but there is periods of downtime where i can't be smashing skills out as soon as it's up cause of TP, thus of course I won't be seeing numbers like 470 anytime soon.

Also consider the fact that as your party's DPS goes up, generally the Dreadnaught dies even fast before your chaos thrust and PB ticks half of their charges or you put in enough doomspikes to significantly increase your DPS.

End of the day my point was, as long as you know what advantages/setbacks your current team set up gives you, and you're pulling out the maximum given the circumstances, who cares if u pulled 350 or 500?

And you really need to pray to RNG god for 500 DPS. Crits is the only answer it seems.

I do right around 400 on T8 with missle duties, brain jacked lamb, and having to proc one tower, that's with i108 and the Novus, full BiS and no duties I can see 470-480, but I doubt I could hit 500.

Our monk with the 115 Claws did 470.

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Originally Posted by Daweism

I do right around 400 on T8 with missle duties, brain jacked lamb, and having to proc one tower, that's with i108 and the Novus, full BiS and no duties I can see 470-480, but I doubt I could hit 500.

Our monk with the 115 Claws did 470.

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400? Hmm, I would of assumed ilvl 108 would do more (more so with that Novus)?

Hello, I've been playing DRG as my second main and i think i reached a roadblock in terms of what my next gear upgrade should be...

This is my current gearset: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/NO89

Melding crafted gear would not be a problem for me, i just want to know what i should be going for next as an upgrade.

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Originally Posted by Baltemys

Hello, I've been playing DRG as my second main and i think i reached a roadblock in terms of what my next gear upgrade should be...

This is my current gearset: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/NO89

Melding crafted gear would not be a problem for me, i just want to know what i should be going for next as an upgrade.

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IT guys at work block your ariyala link. Shortly after Coil 2 released and loot tables were being determined, I had a friend craft me the wolfram helmet, chest, and belt. I think pentamelded them to max out det/crit/acc. The high allagan mask is from T8, while the chest and belt are T9. In my opinion, they're solid upgrades. Astrum gear (with sands obtained through hunts) are also a possibility for you though will take a few weeks to "buy" from the vendor.

Not sure what weapon you have chosen, but aim for a liberator if you can save up the soldiery tomestones and another sand. Not sure how the ramuh weapon measures up...can't ever find anyone wanting to clear him on Cactuar.

The best I've ever done in T8 is 430 with 490 ACC BiS. I can't seem to get past it, and I've been trying to for a while now. Is there any tip anyone can give me? My only responsibility is the tower (every other wave) as our MNK is the one doing landmines.

Aww, I feel better now. I'll keep training.

And yeah, the soldiery armor has too much skill speed, I usually run out of TP quick.

Maybe I'll improve my DPS as soon as I understand the whole fight (only downed twice so I don't take risks for now), and if I am lucky, I'll maybe find a better stuff which will help.

Thanks for your help, mateys ! :D

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Originally Posted by mythicrose

"snip".

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I guess i have to type out my gearset xD

(Left Side):
High Allagan Spear
Wolfram Mask melded (Det capped, crit capped and +6 accuracy)
Wyrm's Mail
HA gauntlets
Myth Belt
Allagan Trousers
Allagan Sollerets

(Right Side):
High Allagan Choker
Allagan Earrings
Allagan Bracelet
Gloam Ring
Weathered Gloam Ring

Accuracy 476

Since we had duplicate DRG loot drop in second coil i have gotten a few pieces of high allagan, i followed the 2.1 BiS that maximized acc > det > crit.

From what i can gather, the soldiery boots look like a good upgrade, +Acc +Det, other pieces from the soldiery set have too much skill speed on it.

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Originally Posted by Baltemys

I guess i have to type out my gearset xD

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,
Others may disagree with me, but if you're wanting the quickest (not necessariy cheapest) upgrades consider a pentamelded curiass and pentamelded wolfram belt. How you meld is up to you, but I'd follow suit with what you did on the mask. If cost still isn't an issue, penta meld ruby earrings and bracelet will tie you over as well.

While you could use crafted items for the pants and boots, I'd use soldiery tomes here (probably getting boots first). I've yet to get the HA trousers to drop (spear too). Many of the "BiS" pieces in the end are high allagan. Some of the soldiery gear will change depending on chosen accuracy.


Edit : Had the i90 crafted accesorries been available when I first set foot in coil, I probably would've gotten them. My luck with dragoon drops has mediocre. Using the weighted stat values on page 1, it was more than worth it for me to get the crafted armor set pieces (especially helm, chest, and belt). You've got a group that is clearly farming coil, so the path you choose is your own. Depending on desired accuracy, one almost needs a full set of unweathered astrum and HA, though.

It's a loss of 23 STR from full i110 gear, and then another loss in CRIT from BiS by over 100 (mitigated by food) for an 80-100 (depending on food) gain in DET. I don't know if the loss in STR is worth it :x

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Originally Posted by Noxotic

It's a loss of 23 STR from full i110 gear, and then another loss in CRIT from BiS by over 100 (mitigated by food) for an 80-100 (depending on food) gain in DET. I don't know if the loss in STR is worth it :x

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The thing is I have only one sand at the moment, so I still have no idea of where I should use it first.

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Originally Posted by Decrith

The best I've ever done in T8 is 430 with 490 ACC BiS. I can't seem to get past it, and I've been trying to for a while now. Is there any tip anyone can give me? My only responsibility is the tower (every other wave) as our MNK is the one doing landmines.

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1. Saving gapclosers (spineshatter, reverse elusive, dragonfire) for reducing dps downtime after towers
2. Use X pot of STR HQ at the initial burst w1 and later around w6/7
3. 490 acc...... means theres gonna be 1 or 2 missed hits
4. Pray u dun get AF

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Originally Posted by Noxotic

It's a loss of 23 STR from full i110 gear, and then another loss in CRIT from BiS by over 100 (mitigated by food) for an 80-100 (depending on food) gain in DET. I don't know if the loss in STR is worth it :x

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23 STR equals to 69 DET, 100 crit rating equals to 6.97% crit chance (not to mention crit hard cap is around 25% theoritically and 20% realistically), seems not worthed it

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Originally Posted by ColdestHeaven

The thing is I have only one sand at the moment, so I still have no idea of where I should use it first.

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1. HA headgear is BiS, dun waste ur sands on weathered Astrum helm
2. Astrum Mail is 110 BiS
3. Astrum Sabatons is 110 BiS
4. Ironically, ur det build didn't swap HA ring for REX ring or another weathered gloam ring

Over time i have had a force of habit of Phlebotomizing at the start of a pull due to initial aggro of a tank which doesn't allow for successful HT 100% of the time. I also have made a habit of elusive jumping in backwards as a way to add an initial gap closer in a fight instead of wasting the dps potential of spineshatter with BFB/buffs or by running in with talon.

Im curious what other drgs have been doing about this? i suppose i may just need to get better at being able to HT at the start but honestly you never know with some tanks, some spin immediately meanwhile others delay it for a few seconds.

In all, the pre-mature use of phleb doesn't really mess up initial rotation to much other than you will skip it after chaos thrust and instead wait until after your first FT combo while still ultimately getting a buffd phleb on the boss in the end

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Originally Posted by HulveinBlitz

400? Hmm, I would of assumed ilvl 108 would do more (more so with that Novus)?

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Yeah and I have pretty much every mechanic job besides popping land mines.

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Originally Posted by Empressia

1. Saving gapclosers (spineshatter, reverse elusive, dragonfire) for reducing dps downtime after towers
2. Use X pot of STR HQ at the initial burst w1 and later around w6/7
3. 490 acc...... means theres gonna be 1 or 2 missed hits
4. Pray u dun get AF

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Thanks, it's probably the gapclosers I'm having problems with. Anyway 490 is enough for flank, never missed in all my runs.

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Originally Posted by Empressia

1. HA headgear is BiS, dun waste ur sands on weathered Astrum helm
2. Astrum Mail is 110 BiS
3. Astrum Sabatons is 110 BiS
4. Ironically, ur det build didn't swap HA ring for REX ring or another weathered gloam ring

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1) I swear I had read differently elsewhere, but I am glad this is not the case. Gonna hold on till it drops.
2) Understood.
3) ^
4) Eh, didn't have enough accuracy for the REX (awesome abbreviation lol) ring and I figured that STR > that DET on the Weathered Gloam. That still applies to the Mail, obviously, however the amount of DET/SKS switched was higher and more noticeable - I didn't want that to cripple my TP bar. Then again, though, if I use a second sand on the Astrum Sabatons I should be able to replace the HA ring with the REX ring, right?

So in the end it's better if I give up on the Guardian breastplate and upgrade the Mail - correct?

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Originally Posted by CesarLongsword

snip

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1. Eh i always 100% HT 1st for boss initial pulls, only phlebo 1st on t9 golems switch (goodluck with the tanks running and turning for feeding meteors). Its called "waiting" for 1-2s
2. As for spine, i always use it for dps, gapcloser wise well it depends too much on RNG mechanics
3. sounds like ur pugging too much, better get a static tank

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Originally Posted by ColdestHeaven

snip

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1. 18 crit > 25 sks, sks is only good for stealing 1-3 extra hits on boss and may cause ur death due to being greedy
2. for accuracy u only need at least 493 for t6-8, and 515 for t9 if u play safe
3. 1 STR = 3 DET
4. Even with 110 BiS set, we only have 496 acc max, which is barely above the minimum 493 acc needed for t6-9, hence y u need to ditch that cosplay armor suit

why would you wait 1-2s? wouldnt that be a dps loss?

if i elusive first i am usually at the boss before the tank

my initial rotation is usually something like this:

(elusive into boss) Phleb-HT(sweep) impusle (IR) diss (BFB) CT (PS) TT (jump) VT (LS) FT (spineshatter) Phleb (DFD/unless there is trash within ~2mins of fight) - HT(sweep) TT - VT - (BFB usually wears off) FT

i suppose you can hold on HT until after you get the BFB FT up, but i just wanna make it easier