Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

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Originally Posted by hunter2

Never having experienced pre-ShB healer design, I don't want to pretend it was some golden age we need to return to but I've had a recurring experience where I come up with an idea to make healers more fun, I tell my friends, and they say "Oh, that's just like how it was in Stormblood!" '-_-

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I think the fact that new players who have never experienced Stormblood can independently come up with designs that they think would be fun that matches up with what we had in Stormblood is certainly quite a bad look for the dev team.

It proves that quite a lot of people who are seeking a more fulfilling gameplay experience would greatly enjoy what we had in Stormblood, which they ripped away for no reason in Shadowbringers, and then giving us gameplay that barely anyone can say that they truly enjoy. Some people say they like the current healers, sure, but how much of that is because of ease of play rather than genuine enjoyment?

While I personally enjoyed Heavensward more than Stormblood, I think reverting to the design principles of Stormblood would serve to cater to the most amount of people.

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Originally Posted by Ceetee

I genuinely don't care what they do. Summoner, Machinist, and Ninja have all gotten multiple major overhaul over the years until they found reasonably comfortable spots (even if I am one of the weirdos that misses gun/bow mage). If they make a change and it doesn't stick, that's fine. It doesn't have to be that way forever. They can just change it again.

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I agree with everything you said, but this? No, just no.

New MCH and SMN are nothing better than what they did to healers in ShB and onward. It's the same asinine bland recipe.

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Originally Posted by Et_ela

As a "new" healer who started playing during 5.3, I agree with what these veteran healers are saying and would love to see the role reworked. I really enjoyed healing while "leveling" but it was also cause I slowly did minimum item-level content with friends and random pfs as I went through the expansions. When I started doing current content it was honestly a whiplash with how you were expected to do 90% of your healing with ogcds. It's clear the healing philosophy was different in just how damage came out in older fights. They encouraged the use of gcds and even stopping dps at times to make sure you had enough resources during certain mechs, (coils, twin, bahamut, thordan, o4s, o8s, shinryu are ones I can think of off the top of my head) and it's a huge reason why I enjoy older fights more tbh. Using aetherflow felt impactful, not something you dumped whenever. Or sometimes physick was just genuinely the more optimal choice due to speed, mana management, and the weave window it gave (not as much with how lvl 90 scales with old content now though tbh).

Like there was probably a level of "we were noobs" that contributed to that at the time, but even when I went back to do old fights with new people, that feeling isn't completely gone despite how lvl 90 stats make healing "easier" now. As someone who LOVED dot smn, I would have absolutely loved sch even more (holy shit I'm so sad I missed that).

Tldr there are plenty of new healers that are unsatisfied with the role as it currently is as well.

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There is definitely the GCD/oGCD issue, but even in Stormblood tbh the OGCD spamm started rearing its ugly head already.

People often forget though that what truly made healing and party sustain apart was that the battle system got dramatically maimed when they reworked how MP itself works. Any dungeon run as a healer back then for example, was a whole different beast: you had a variable pool of total MP (13-16k depending on the healer), with GCD spells generally costing less than they do today with the exception of AoE (Holy was 1600 MP for example which stayed in line with physical jobs expensive AoEs). This meant essentially that running a dungeon when trying to push further than just healing your party and dropping offensive spells here and there, if you actually went to spamm AoEs (and healers had pretty good AoE dps as a result, more than today's, it was competing with tanks), you drained your MP very fast, and you also had incentives to pair it smart with abilities like Lucid used strategically, but also the old Thin Air for example (that made all spell MP null for a short duration), that kind of things.

Overspending could literally run you dry of resources and unable to heal the tank anymore. MP regen was also relatively slow so it was definitely not back up to full for the next pull at all. In counterpart, the pool itself allowed for a lot more before running out. It also gave incentives for people to play together as a team and use their party resource refreshes (Refresh, Tactician, Manashift, or Manasong/Turret depending on the expansion).

Just that alone made mere dungeons incredibly less dull to run. They were not harder or easier mechanically. The battle system was still more than just a ghost of its former self. And that's why I do think that the state of healers currently doesn't just have consequences on healers alone. It bleeds over the whole combat system.

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Originally Posted by hunter2

I just want to add my voice in support. I started playing the game in Shadowbringers as a level 1 Conjurer and I started doing high-end content with Asphodelos as a level 90 Sage. I've healed throughout almost the whole of Endwalker. I quite like the design philosophy where my skill expression as a healer is "as much healing as necessary, and as much damage as possible" but the damage side is so boring and shallow.

I've stopped doing roulettes and casual content as healer because there's no gameplay there - I have way more available healing than is needed and no depth in my dps kit. But on a dps job those same roulettes can still be a lot of fun. You don't need to optimise your rotation in order to clear but you do so anyway just for fun.

In high-end content healing can be fun while progging and finding little tricks to squeeze the most value out of your kit, then by the time it comes to reclears all the fun has vanished. I do like Criterion but I can't see myself healing savage any more in Dawntrail.

Never having experienced pre-ShB healer design, I don't want to pretend it was some golden age we need to return to but I've had a recurring experience where I come up with an idea to make healers more fun, I tell my friends, and they say "Oh, that's just like how it was in Stormblood!" '-_-

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It’s people like you that keep me from completely giving up on FFXIV. Thank you, truly.

There’s a reason why Stormblood is consistently referenced when talking about better healer design. Stormblood was not perfect, and few people suggest we return to its design literally. But the overall level of complexity in Stormblood’s job design is the happy medium between the complexity of Heavensward (which despite its reputation of being the most complex era of FFXIV was not actually all that complex and your average players still had little difficulty clearing all forms of core content shy of Savage) and the overly simplistic Shadowbringers and Endwalker. In other words, the game was neither too difficult for the average player nor too easy for the skilled player.

“The best video games are easy to play and difficult to master.” -Nolan Bushnell

If we looked back at Stormblood and took inspiration from its general level of depth and applied that to the evolution of jobs moving forward, we could have a much better environment for all types of players.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

The “hey guys I have a great idea; yeah yeah that’s just SB healing” is basically one of the two recurring jokes on the healer forums along with “random person comes in says ‘if you want DPS complexity play a DPS’ then proceeds to never respond again”

They are basically the two things that keep the healer forum alive

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Ironically, just saw a video recommended to me on YT where someone went with the latter (direct quote: Why should I pushing the Glare button, when I should be pushing the Cure button instead? Like, I shouldn't have the time, or the MP, to cast Glare...' etc ). I'll give them credit though, tehy said that tanks shouldn't be dealing as much damage either, so 'equal rights for the non-DPS roles', just not the way that some might have expected. It's at times like this, though, I wish we had a 'Got a hot take about FFXIV healers? Sorry pal, your take is actually stone cold, having been put to the debate floor many times over, here's a list of common 'not-takes'' link we could deploy

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Originally Posted by Aravell

It proves that quite a lot of people who are seeking a more fulfilling gameplay experience would greatly enjoy what we had in Stormblood, which they ripped away for no reason in Shadowbringers, and then giving us gameplay that barely anyone can say that they truly enjoy. Some people say they like the current healers, sure, but how much of that is because of ease of play rather than genuine enjoyment?

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I do also think that, of the players who started post-SHB and never experienced the 'good ol' days' us old codgers pine for, I expect many who say 'no don't change it I like how it currently is' say so out of a fear that SE might make things worse, and don't consider the possibility that things could improve (or do, but don't want to run the risk, after all AST's been through the wringer several times now so it's not a great track record for SE)

If a Stormblood Classic server existed, or a PTR where players could play both SB rotation healers and EW rotation healers side by side, I'd expect a lot more players would have similar views to what we do: SB is a good baseline to work off of, add the fixed lilies for WHM and start from there. Also, since we as a playerbase now default to RDPS instead of ADPS for barsing, AST's buffs are attributed to the AST, so it would have less stranglehold on PFs

Well sadly we still have a month left to go before we any info considering jobs or the media tour. Do you think they will go out of their way again to try and get a healer main on the tour like how they did with Endealker or not do so like they did with Shadowbringers?

Who was the healer rep for EW and what was their reaction?

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Originally Posted by hunter2

Who was the healer rep for EW and what was their reaction?

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I don't recall what creator healer players were there or asked questions. I do know that Rinon has spoken about how dull healing is outside of specifically blind prog. And he did specify that the prog be blind, because the fun comes in seeing the mechanics and figuring out how to plan your heals. Once that pattern is learned, or if you're simply aware of the mechanics ahead of time like virtually every party finder ever, that healing is very dull. He commented about how Stormblood was the right balance, and gave an example of how interesting and rewarding it was to use Miasma II because you had the agency to be aggressive with it and your Aetherflow, but that also means that you would be punished if you were too aggressive. But that was what made it good. He commented how each healer could absolutely spare an extra attack or two to spice up their DPS game, amongst other topics. This was not in anything related to the media tour or anything, but an in-depth YouTube interview with him I came across.

Edit: Actually it was Zepla who was the healer at the endwalker media tour.

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

Edit: Actually it was Zepla who was the healer at the endwalker media tour.

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For what it's worth, she did try asking about how they were addressing some of the criticism that healers were receiving, and the response was to try Sage. That's also the interview where Sage was described as being designed with healer feedback in mind. Which is why, regardless of how content the majority of players are with healers, Sage is still a failure, because it failed to satisfy the people it was targeting.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

For what it's worth, she did try asking about how they were addressing some of the criticism that healers were receiving, and the response was to try Sage. That's also the interview where Sage was described as being designed with healer feedback in mind. Which is why, regardless of how content the majority of players are with healers, Sage is still a failure, because it failed to satisfy the people it was targeting.

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They promoted it as a "dps healer" and the only thing it has related to dps is a Regen with extra steps...it's literally just a SCH with lilies instead of aetherflow otherwise.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Even just making the few attacks we do have used more frequently would be a breath of fresh air. Drop DOTs from 30 seconds to 15 seconds. Drop Phlegma from a 40 second cooldown to a 20 second cooldown. Add some quality to each AOE spell that gives it functionality in single target, whether that be something like a mobility button (like Dyskrasia is both your AOE and a DPS neutral mobility spell with a higher MP cost) or adding buff upkeep to a job earned through your AOE attack, or give the AOE attack usable utility against all types of enemies, like adding a mitigation effect to Gravity even if under specific circumstances.

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There's truth to this. Think of SCH's Ruin II and SGE's Toxicon II. These abilities are hardly used by players for various reasons. Sometimes even discouraged. There's simply no reason to use these spells when playing either job. For Ruin II, I think after they buffed the GCD cooldown to 1.5secs on offensive spells made it obsolete. And obtaining Addersting wasn't something worth getting.

For those jobs, I think if they gave us more reasons to use those spells, along with shorter DoT times and somehow making our AoE abilities worth using for dungeon boss / raid fights would be great.

Same with WHM and AST, but I still think WHM needs at least one more DPS spell though. Not sure how AST can play into this.

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Originally Posted by currentlemon

There's truth to this. Think of SCH's Ruin II and SGE's Toxicon II. These abilities are hardly used by players for various reasons. Sometimes even discouraged. There's simply no reason to use these spells when playing either job. For Ruin II, I think after they buffed the GCD cooldown to 1.5secs on offensive spells made it obsolete. And obtaining Addersting wasn't something worth getting.

For those jobs, I think if they gave us more reasons to use those spells, along with shorter DoT times and somehow making our AoE abilities worth using for dungeon boss / raid fights would be great.

Same with WHM and AST, but I still think WHM needs at least one more DPS spell though. Not sure how AST can play into this.

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What sucks about Ruin II and Toxikon II was that SE got it right the first time. In ARR, Scholar had Ruin and Ruin II. Both had a potency of 80; Ruin had a 2.5 second cast time while Ruin II was instant, but cost twice as much MP (and inflicted Blind). What made that work so well was giving agency to the player. You had access to as much mobility and weave windows as you wanted without your DPS being punished or any cooldowns. Your only restriction was your MP, which was important, but you could very well afford to cast several Ruin IIs as needed. This was the perfect mobility tool. There was no need to try and "fix" it. The only flaw was not updating Ruin II in Heavensward when Ruin was replaced with Broil.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

What sucks about Ruin II and Toxikon II was that SE got it right the first time. In ARR, Scholar had Ruin and Ruin II. Both had a potency of 80; Ruin had a 2.5 second cast time while Ruin II was instant, but cost twice as much MP (and inflicted Blind). What made that work so well was giving agency to the player. You had access to as much mobility and weave windows as you wanted without your DPS being punished or any cooldowns. Your only restriction was your MP, which was important, but you could very well afford to cast several Ruin IIs as needed. This was the perfect mobility tool. There was no need to try and "fix" it. The only flaw was not updating Ruin II in Heavensward when Ruin was replaced with Broil.

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Wow. That’s just depressing to hear.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

What sucks about Ruin II and Toxikon II was that SE got it right the first time. In ARR, Scholar had Ruin and Ruin II. Both had a potency of 80; Ruin had a 2.5 second cast time while Ruin II was instant, but cost twice as much MP (and inflicted Blind). What made that work so well was giving agency to the player. You had access to as much mobility and weave windows as you wanted without your DPS being punished or any cooldowns. Your only restriction was your MP, which was important, but you could very well afford to cast several Ruin IIs as needed. This was the perfect mobility tool. There was no need to try and "fix" it. The only flaw was not updating Ruin II in Heavensward when Ruin was replaced with Broil.

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They kind of brought back the MP and movement considerations with Miasma II in SB, but then they removed it for Art of War in ShB anyway.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

They kind of brought back the MP and movement considerations with Miasma II in SB, but then they removed it for Art of War in ShB anyway.

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Well, I like the concept of merging the functions of your mobility tool and your AOE attack, but I'd still argue ARR Ruin II was better. It had the same element of agency: spend more MP to move and weave, which when combined with Energy Drain gives you the ability to deal more damage than with your standard spell. Miasma II by itself was still a DPS loss and staggered the damage through a DOT, which I do think is a weaker design.

So maybe if instead of Miasma II, Ruin II just dealt 50% of its damage to nearby enemies as well, then that would be a real step up from ARR Scholar. Not to say that ARR Scholar was the best. Selene was a lie and quite literally had no functionality. A silence that's too delayed to interrupt anything, and two buffs to skill/spell speed that didn't actually provide enough of an increase to actually affect your GCD. I don't think Fey Wind and Fey Caress were well balanced changes. The silence still was basically unusable, an AOE Esuna was really cool in like 3 specific fights and was otherwise completely useless, and an attack speed buff that everyone would hate nowerdays anyway that essentially meant it was the "right" choice for increasing the party's DPS by 1% whereas Eos didn't. Of course, sending Selene to the gallows was not the right answer, but alas, SE has a fetish for amputations. So here we are.

Ruin II was fine when it was useful, especially when Ruin used to have a 2-second cast time. Nowadays, it's just a loss... SCH's version of Scathe.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

They kind of brought back the MP and movement considerations with Miasma II in SB, but then they removed it for Art of War in ShB anyway.

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The irony is that they could have kept both actions. For AOE purposes we'd at least alternate between Miasma II and 3-4x Art of War (II), depending on spell speed.

I yet have to see a meaningful reason why Bane had to go as well. Or in the other direction, why the Faerie gauge dropped the gauge cost for one of the skills (AOE heal). Or why DOTs "had to be" lengthed to 30s (45s in the case of BRD; lmao what). At best I can see the "we had to cut dots for technical reasons" if I am generous.

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Originally Posted by Xurtan

Just +1ing this thread. Battlefield controllers used to be my favorite class in MMOs in the 90s and early 00s, then those were taken away and I moved to healer. Now healers have been pretty much nerfed into braindead oblivion, and I'm unsure what to play instead. Prog is still kinda interesting, but after that? Ehh. Mana isn't really a concern, aggro absolutely isn't a concern, we have no damage rotation, healing stance doesn't exist anymore... what's left for them to take?

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Everquest Enchanter's were truly something else =(

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Originally Posted by rawker

Ruin II was fine when it was useful, especially when Ruin used to have a 2-second cast time. Nowadays, it's just a loss... SCH's version of Scathe.

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I wouldn't put Ruin II at the level of Scathe tbh. Scathe is a redundant ability, like Undraw.

Ruin II at least has some applications remaining. As someone who pugs savages/ultimates, Ruin II is a tool I use frequently for when I want to cross a large distance without slidecasting, because slidecasting tends to make other people panic and adjust for you unnecessarily, which leads to a wipe. Ruin II at least recoups some of that damage loss from moving.

Ruin II is also useful during prog to test how many GCDs of movement a certain mechanic takes, so you can gauge whether you can slidecast or if you need to Swiftcast. Also you generally don't Swift for movement in prog because you want it for raise, so Ruin II is useful there along with Toxikon II.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

I wouldn't put Ruin II at the level of Scathe tbh. Scathe is a redundant ability, like Undraw.

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Especially when you get 2 iterations of Triple Cast + Swift Cast. 7 free instant GDCs in a minute.

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Originally Posted by rawker

Ruin II was fine when it was useful, especially when Ruin used to have a 2-second cast time. Nowadays, it's just a loss... SCH's version of Scathe.

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Except from lvl 48 to lvl 54 when SCH gets broil. Art of War is a higher potency than both Ruin and Ruin 2, is instant cast, and gets even better at 2+ targets.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Especially when you get 2 iterations of Triple Cast + Swift Cast. 7 free instant GDCs in a minute.

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Not to mention ice paradox and 2 charges of sharpcast as well as 2 xeno’s per minute

Still running into healers on roulettes that don’t use Ensuna when needed. I am aware that enemy DoTs don’t matter that much in some dungeons, but shouldn’t the use of the skill be a muscle memory at this point? I’m not sure if I should either blame the game for failing to teach the mechanics or the players themselves.

The bleed has to be considerable enough to warrant an Esuna. Otherwise letting that tick while throwing our unused tools like Benison, Tetra, Union, Intercession, Asylum, switch Kardion partner, Haima, waiting for Assize/Star, letting Eos handle them, or hell even cast Medica II to slap the HoT on multiple bleeding players are just more efficient than trying to Esuna everything.

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Originally Posted by currentlemon

Still running into healers on roulettes that don’t use Ensuna when needed. I am aware that enemy DoTs don’t matter that much in some dungeons, but shouldn’t the use of the skill be a muscle memory at this point? I’m not sure if I should either blame the game for failing to teach the mechanics or the players themselves.

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Ffxiv teaches you to fight the reflex to use Esuna, and I'm not even joking. When I came to FFXIV, I had a lot of experience as a healer. So my reflex was to carefully bind this power and use it as much as possible.

... After a while, I changed the bind to a less accessible key, and mentally relegated esuna to a less important position. Because apart from specific debuffs (eg: paralysis; the debuff whose name I don't know in English, but which slows down the gcd; doom)... Well, using it is simply a waste of time. So much so, in fact, that I have a distinct memory of almost letting players die in instances I wasn't familiar with, simply because they had a dot that I hadn't cleansed, the game having taught me in the meantime that dot = forgettable in 90% of content.

So here: blame the game... And yourself in part (< said without any animosity) because a proper healer shouldn't systematically use esuna.

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Originally Posted by currentlemon

Still running into healers on roulettes that don’t use Ensuna when needed. I am aware that enemy DoTs don’t matter that much in some dungeons, but shouldn’t the use of the skill be a muscle memory at this point? I’m not sure if I should either blame the game for failing to teach the mechanics or the players themselves.

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It's like you said, most enemy DoTs don't matter that much in dungeons and cleansable debuffs are either rare-or-nonexistent or dodge-able AoEs, so why bother with them if you don't have to? ┐(´∀｀)┌

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Originally Posted by Merrigan

Because apart from specific debuffs (eg: paralysis; the debuff whose name I don't know in English, but which slows down the gcd; doom)

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It is, in fact, just called "Slow".

https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Slow

I genuinely can’t think of a casual esuna’able debuff that’s not doom or maybe slow depending on its length that IS worth using esuna on

Doom is obvious, long slow debuffs on anyone besides yourself are likely worth it but other than that…….what, if it’s a DOT it’s either ignorable or it’s more worth using medica 2 over esuna to cover everyone, something like the esuna’able bombs in fractal continuum it’s easier to eat the bomb then use an oGCD than use esuna, siren’s esuna’able maniac barely does anything, bad breath has esuna prioritisation such that you have to use it like 5 times to esuna the bad debuffs, the esuna’able vuln stacks on the first boss of hull breaker hard are also pointless as that fight does so little damage (and no raidwides) and it’s a weak vuln anyway

Paralysis on casters maybe if it’s a long paralysis (like the first trash of puppets) but with the 1.5 second cast time that pretty much only affects BLM

It’s just never worth it in casual content

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Originally Posted by Nicola_Kunu

It is, in fact, just called "Slow".

https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Slow

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Slow may have been casted on my brain today (I'm already out).

Bring back Pacification and Silence then make it frequent

I think the key is having things that can be Esuna’d and that there is value in doing so, but it’s also not a literal requirement. With Doom, I really wish they would combine both dooms—you can remove doom with Esuna or by fully restoring the HP of the target. Both ways work giving you options. Imagine single target attacks that drop someone down to 1 HP and give them a 10 second doom. White Mage can Bene it away, but Scholar might rather Esuna it off.

Other suggestions I’d make: Paralysis during mechanics is an option. It might not matter normally but if you need to be moving, it can pose an issue. Infirmity is another option, something that reduces how much HP you can restore. Combine that with high damage like Reaper’s Toll and being able to Esuna the infirmity can get you around it if need be. Even the raid wide bleeds/poisons and bleed busters should have the DOT be Esuna-able. Even if mitigation makes that not an issue, Esuna can allow you to remove a nasty DOT that got through unmitigated. What about an MP DOT that can either be Esuna’d or reversed with an MP refresh like Lucid? If it occurs while Lucid is on cooldown, Esuna can prevent you from losing too much MP. Or it’s a debuff that doubles your MP costs and can be managed with cooldowns. Maybe you could have a mechanic with avoidable damage that is paired with a massive Vulnerability up on the party. You can do the mechanic correctly and no one takes damage, but any failure will result in that player getting KOed. But Esuna gives you the freedom to make mistakes without getting KOed.

I also think white mage deserves an OGCD AOE Esuna and having more things to use it on could make it viable utility. Scholar already has Expedient, and Esunaga (Esuna III) is originally a White Mage thing anyway.

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

Well sadly we still have a month left to go before we any info considering jobs or the media tour.

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Well I think there is already enough into out there that shows Dawntrail is following exact same formula as all expansions.

Dps getting more deepsy deeps to cram into 2min and healers more heally heals.

Please look forward to it.

It's interesting to think about the application of esuna because it had its uses in Shadowbringers with TEA and throttle and E8s and the frozen debuff you had to cleanse on people except for the two tanks on icelit dragonsong. Meanwhile here in Endwalker, you had the one dot on the first boss in the tower of Zot but you could just easily heal through that and then you had their attempts at trying to bring back esuna with doom from Troia, Lapis and Lunar Subterrane even going so far as to say

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→ヒーラーの方は普段使っていなかったアクションをしっかりとセットしておいたほうがいいと思う
-> YoshiP thinks it's better for healers to properly set skills that they normally don't use.

→「このアクション、セットしていなかった！」ということがないようにだけご注意ください
-> Please be careful not to end up with situations where you go "Oh shit, I didn't set this action in my hotbar!!"

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Please be careful not to end up with situations where you go "Oh shit, I didn't set this action in my hotbar!!"

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lol. I have every action on every job set to my hotbars. My problem as a healer that spends 99% of their time in "casual" content is that I forget that the actions even exist because content is so under-tuned (or jobs so over-tuned) that half the actions are simply never needed to get the job done.

Its funny because interject exists yet this entire expansion I cant think of a time during savage or an extreme fight where it was needed. In a casual dungeon maybe to interrupt an adds cast bar but never on a boss. So now we are in a position of whether they need to add more of it or just remove it completely and free up 1 slot on ranged physical and tanks hotbars.

There is alot of engaging mechanics that they have moved away from these past expansions.

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Originally Posted by Derio

Its funny because interject exists yet this entire expansion I cant think of a time during savage or an extreme fight where it was needed. In a casual dungeon maybe to interrupt an adds cast bar but never on a boss. So now we are in a position of whether they need to add more of it or just remove it completely and free up 1 slot on ranged physical and tanks hotbars.

There is alot of engaging mechanics that they have moved away from these past expansions.

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It was for true bravery on Hermes in the 87 dungeon and on Ser Adelphel in DSR in p1 but that's legit only the two instances in the higher end content.

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

It was for true bravery on Hermes in the 87 dungeon

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As a WHM who ran that dungeon with DF randos… "Interject" from anyone would have been nice, but without it, it was barely an inconvenience having to heal through that boss-buff.

You know what's the most painful dot I often come accross against? the worm in Cutter's Cry... a lv 38 dungeon. We need more "attacks/debuffs a random player" type of mechanics, not just if/when they fail one. It'd break a bit the monotony I think.

And of course, never forget about repose. The only spell that was only in useful in the lvl 80 healer role quest and even more useless than the dps one since its not aoe. They both cost the same and have the same cast time too.

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

It's interesting to think about the application of esuna because it had its uses in Shadowbringers with TEA and throttle and E8s and the frozen debuff you had to cleanse on people except for the two tanks on icelit dragonsong. Meanwhile here in Endwalker, you had the one dot on the first boss in the tower of Zot but you could just easily heal through that and then you had their attempts at trying to bring back esuna with doom from Troia, Lapis and Lunar Subterrane even going so far as to say

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If I continue playing Sage into DT because the job improves enough to keep me, but Toxikon does not change, I will still not have it on my hotbar. I will not tolerate such an awful design on my hotbar, and I'll lose nothing of value for doing so.