Dark Knight Megathread

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Originally Posted by The_User

Seem like People already forgot about Enhanced Unmend....

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Hopefully so. It was a shit and unproductive meme, given that every tank had a similarly useless EW trait (or outright fewer additions) and it was hardly the break in the dam worth pointing at.

So nobody is gonna try to encourage dev to rework/improve it?


If we let them shove something like this on us and let it stick for the rest of the expansion without having to take responsibility then what could guaranteer that they wouldn't do it again in 7.0?


But I guess DRK commu aren't SAM commu

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Originally Posted by The_User

So nobody is gonna try to encourage dev to rework/improve it?

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It's already been done. You can probably find a few different concrete suggestions theretoward in this thread.

A third charge is worth the affect gap closer's damage times their raid buff multiplier (i.e., less than 60 potency bonus per two minutes, while requiring that one have no mobility action for 90 seconds thereafter). Enhanced Unmend, meanwhile, increases the relative potency of Unmend and has a small chance to refresh a charge at a useful time (reduces time until next mobility action rather than obliging that that time be increased by 50% for any damage bonus). That's worth 33.3+ potency. Just doubling the CDR would put DRK on even ground so long as there's reason to use Unmend at least once, on average, per 2 to 2.5 minutes (depending on uptime saved by a timely reset, too).

One suggestion, for instance, was to greatly increase its CDR (e.g., to 10 or 15s), on the assumption that forced downtime via range are decreasing in modern raids and thus there would not be as many opportunities to Unmend as there would be raid cycles, and make it empower Plunge (by the portion of (over)charge) if both CDs are already readied, such that the trait cannot go to waste.

By rework I mean give us something else that we can really count on instead of this extremely niche once in a lifetime hidden card shenanigan.

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Originally Posted by The_User

By rework I mean give us something else that we can really count on instead of this extremely niche once in a lifetime hidden card shenanigan.

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Given that every tank got something similarly niche/useless, or nothing in its place, your choices there seem to be pretty straightforward.

What PLD get at lv 84 : Divine Magic Mastery II


What WAR get at lv 84 : Enhanced Equilibrium


What GNB get at lv 84 : Enhanced Aurora


What DRK get at lv 84 : Enhanced Unmend

I feel you but at this point my morale is at its lowest its hard to even want to think of whats going to happen next expansion let alone now
The fight just seems pointless like I'm shouting in the aether and waiting for a response
Keep up the fight guys maybe you can do it no hidden joke there

Im just done to the point I wonder what would be a good replacement

Whats going to happen next expansion?


Same thing with this expansion


Same old trick for a cash grab and then go back to dump all their effort for FF16

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Originally Posted by The_User

Whats going to happen next expansion?


Same thing with this expansion


Same old trick for a cash grab and then go back to dump all their effort for FF16

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Pretty much

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Hopefully so. It was a shit and unproductive meme, given that every tank had a similarly useless EW trait (or outright fewer additions) and it was hardly the break in the dam worth pointing at.

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Incorrect. No other tank got something that useless, only DRK did.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Incorrect. No other tank got something that useless, only DRK did.

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Trait for a 3rd charge of Onslaught being oh so useful?

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Originally Posted by The_User

What PLD get at lv 84

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Because the level is the only thing to matter when judging the performance increased by EW traits?

Level 62 Paladin's must be furious. Here you got Bloodspiller for significant ppm increases that level and they only got Intervention, which shares resource cost with Cover anyways.

No. You look at the whole EW set. Exempting altogether new skills (rather than soft upgrades), each job received...

WAR:

1. Updates its on-demand
2. Buff to its one-minute heal (1000cp, a relative overbuff, at least until PLD's got buffed, at which point it just became two jobs winning out and two losing out)
3. Melee Mastery
4. 3rd Onslaught charge

GNB:

1. Updates its on-demand
2. Buff to its 1-minute heal (bonus charge on a skill that already wasn't worth holding; no actual potency increase)
3. Bonus Cartridge (if not for Double Down, this would be of only mild value; together, the two notoriously made GNB's burst phase wonky).
4. Melee Mastery

DRK:

1. 2-minute ST CD buff
2. A further 2-minute ST CD buff
3. Melee Mastery
   
4. Enhanced Unmend

(Buffs to on-demand avoided as not to create anti-synergy. New, separate defensive given instead. It's notably undertuned.)

PLD (the "big" winner):

1. Updates its on-demand (both forms)
2. Gets a one-minute heal (Req heals, originally worth a total of 1600cp, then overbuffed to 2000cp, or 3200 at level 90)
3. Melee Mastery
4. Divine Veil gets a bonus 400cp.
5. Spirit's Within gets AoE falloff

DRK's joke trait didn't come at cost of an added charge or potency to a self-heal any more than WAR's or GNB's near worthless traits did. The devs just maintained their determination, held since Stormblood ended, that DRK deserves only minimal self-healing. (They then, naturally, tuned the tankier GNB to deal more damage than the low-sustain-but-high-damage tank, DRK.)

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Trait for a 3rd charge of Onslaught being oh so useful?

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... arguably?

I mean the way I see it,

Every tank:
- Melee Mastery

Every tank except DRK:
- Updates to its on-demand/primary off-tanking tool

PLD (the "big" winner):
- Massive healing during Requiescat, which can be used to trigger Divine Veil and avoid damage lost to Clemency
- Raidwide heal upon activating its raidwide barrier
- damage buff on Spirits Within and contribution to AoE output

GNB:
- An extra charge on a HoT it can throw on allies, or can use an additional time on itself during W2W, or can hold for use during Superbolide
- Bonus Cartridge capacity and increased effect on Bloodfest, which benefits not only Double Down but contributes direct burst potential from Bloodfest
- bonus damage on normal combo finisher

WAR:
- Nearly doubled potency on its one-minute heal
- An extra charge on an oGCD that can, if nothing else, be used for free damage in its opener... or allow for withholding charges for an additional length of downtime at lower damage loss

DRK:
- Two separate, consecutive traits to increase the potency of the same CD (literally the only reason not to combine them is just to fill an extra trait slot)
- A CD reduction for its gap-closer... triggered by a spell we avoid using unless literally no other option is available to us

Enhanced Unmend is the only EW tanking trait doesn't affect a rotational skill or defensive tool. Even arguing it as an effective potency buff on Unmend is marginal given how we're meant to avoid it, not look for opportunities to employ it.
It's a stretch to say any of the others got something as bad or worse.

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(Buffs to on-demand avoided as not to create anti-synergy. New, separate defensive given instead.)

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Even that is something they could have worked around -- like having a mitigation effect trigger when Dark Arts is gained, or adding a Drain effect when spending Dark Arts, or using self-healing as a substitution for additional mitigation, or (as you yourself have suggested before) just reducing the potency of the barrier outright while adding mitigation on top of it to reach an effectively equal (or marginally offset) potency.
The addition of a separate defensive measure as a "solution" just ends up further bloating our oGCD pool.

Now granting, part of it is the unique nature of TBN since its barrier effectively already is the "upfront" effect that they were trying to give other tanks with Endwalker, but we keep coming back to how they missed the other side of the equation, since they added so much additional sustain to the others after the "upfront" effects expired.

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

DRK:
- Two separate, consecutive traits to increase the potency of the same CD (literally the only reason not to combine them is just to fill an extra trait slot)

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Two things, though:

First, the number of traits aren't nearly equal anyways, even if we consolidate them per the fact that some powers are split over multiple skills and thus multiple traits (self and external for PLD and WAR's on demands), etc. Something so significant as a complete lack of added sustain, then, is unlikely to be

Second, if there were somehow a trait count cap, this would be the more apt culprit. Much like Bard wouldn't need an Army's Paeon upgrade trait if Army's Paeon itself had just been designed to scale reasonably, Living Shadow wouldn't need additional traits if it just scaled with the rest of the kit (e.g., if the Living Shadow performed one of each attack you have before leaving). (The difference being only that XIV tooltips simultaneously treat us as incapable of intuition and yet leave out the occasional relevant detail, such that they'd sooner write a multi-paragraph tooltip like that of Living Dead or Army's Paeon than possibly reference a previously set variable.)

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Even that is something they could have worked around -- like having a mitigation effect trigger when Dark Arts is gained

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Right, but my point was that it's not as if it went uncompensated for. No one else gained a completely new defensive ability. That increase in power given by that new ability happened to be weaker than the increase in power given by others' traits, but that's nothing inherent to the form of that power increase.

The on-demand upgrade seemed a no-go, so they gave something else in its place. If there were no such issue, you'd see one more trait and one fewer abilities.



More simply put, though, one needn't point at something they got in order to protest what they haven't gotten, as per the earlier Enhanced Unmend one-liners, when the two are far from mutually exclusive. There's no set number of traits that can be acquired at a given level. There's no set number of traits or abilities across the whole level span. There's not even a set total value across traits or abilities separately. There's only, ideally, parity of kits as a whole.

And we wonder why DRK situation can't get better. Every other tank got an upgraded to make them stronger than DRK and someone will always say it ain't like that.


TBN is now the weakest short cd hand down. No body could use it more than 1 time per minute without losing dps. Having 10s recast longer than TBN doesn't force other tank to eat raw tank buster. DRK 15s recast is overrated.



Dark Mind only find it's meaning in a raid and despite that we can't always count on it either because it didn't work against every tank buster. We're so lucky to have physical attack as our achilles's heel.


Oblation small mitigation compared to a 60s recast didn't make much different and it almost always diminish to below 10% because how the layers of mitigation work. It even make weaving problem worse.



LD is now practically a glorify Holmgang with a longer recast. I guess it make sense to be grateful after the doctor finally agreed to remove a surgery tool that he leave in your stomach that make you life a living hell for 7 years. Surely praiseworthy! what a great cause for celebration!



Every expansion there are always someone who gonna tell you "It ain't that bad" What a life.

Speaking of TBN and the raid roulette I just got, it reminded me of one thing.

TBN can be overwritten by another DRK. Even if the intentions were good you would be down 3000 MP and get nothing back. If you use yours first and the OT DRK uses their TBN on you then yours is gone, theirs gets broken, and you lost 3000 MP for nothing.

I just see DRK Traits problem is like most of them are pretty much basic potency ups that don't impact on his gameplay, in other words they don't feel like they add anything interesting compared what other jobs traits does, of the 7 unique traits the job have only 3 offers something gameplay wise and the rest are just potency ups + unmed meme trait that actually could push 1 plunge outside of burst bcs of it or just ignore it and keep everything under raid buffs wich make the trait a joke again.

DRK is bassically the Fluff knight and his traits are just another sign of DRK total lack of cohesion and felt like they didn't wanted to work on the job at all and put those generic non-changing gameplay skills/traits to add something bcs they have to.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

First, the number of traits aren't nearly equal anyways, even if we consolidate them per the fact that some powers are split over multiple skills and thus multiple traits (self and external for PLD and WAR's on demands), etc.

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If we're looking specifically at number of traits, no, they aren't equal, because some jobs get new actions instead, and some require traits just to facilitate new abilities.

But when it comes to upgrades overall for an expansion -- both traits and active effects -- there are patterns based on each given role: In this case, every tank and DPS job gets an upgrade every 2 levels (as is standard for an expansion, until some get trimmed or reorganized in the next or later), with tanks receiving an additional Melee Mastery trait at 84 to boost the potencies of their core rotation.
A consistency implemented during the expansion so each job experiences growth at the same points in the leveling process, MSQ and dungeon experience. The mindset behind why we get abilities through leveling at all, rather than at level 1 or at the start of the expansion.

Through that lens, the concept of a job getting consecutive upgrades to the same skill, a difference felt when synching for exactly one dungeon, really is just there to fill a gap in the leveling scheme.

all the 3rd onslaught did was give WAR effectively an ogcd FC. Three onslaught = 450, one FC = 460. While the utility of having 3 could be useful tech option, there has yet to be an encounter where that could come into niche play and it will never come into play given how raid design is about the 1-2 min bursts alignment. Ultimately, that potency could have been put somewhere else and WAR would still function the same at the end.

With regards to TBN, I feel like they are too scared to push it further given how strong shields are in the endgame. It's why you don't see healer shield stacking. Honestly the enhanced unmend trait should have just been a trait to give TBN a 2nd charge or, remove the MP cost. I feel like the MP cost is the only thing holding back TBN. You have to pay to get a refund. That design hasn't existed since HW and SB, so why DRK has retained it is still baffling me but I guess that doesn't matter because its dmg go brrr.

A third charge of Onslaught is not an extra, let alone oGCD, of Fell Cleave damage. It's at most around 17 ppm, even with the most ideal setup of raid buffs.

An added charge does not increase the frequency of the ability. It solely allows a greater number of uses per raid cycle to be blown in that raid buff window. If a skill does 150 potency on a 30s CD, and one has only Chain and Litany, you're looking at less than 6 added potency per minute despite that making it now take, in this case, 90 seconds before one has access again to a mobility skill, up from 60.

I'd really like for Dark Knight to have something interesting in its 1 minute and 2 minute burst. Since the job design has been more streamlined towards 1 or 2 minute burst windows, perhaps making those more interesting and fun then just spamming the same ability on repeat would be a good idea. The fact that you only do Hard Slash -> Syphon strike -> Souleater outside of your burst is also fairly disappointing. While I do not feel like current traits are bad, I really see not much point in arguing over them, instead here's what I'd really love for the job going forward.

->Bringing back Scourge as an AoE GCD DoT without any combo requirements that lasts for around 18 seconds would make you want to actively refresh it, even when not bursting.

->Living Shadow, while somewhat cool initially, kind of lost its flavor due to it not doing that much, you press it once every 2 minutes and forget about it. There are no interactions, absolutely nothing. Making it more complicated is not exactly what I am pointing towards but perhaps other "simple" mechanics for a tank job would be more engaging.
For example when using Living Shadow, you could gain the aura that you had back in HW [ see current effect of Grit, but it only lasts a couple of seconds :( ] and all of your GCD/oGCDs would deal more damage. That way you actively look out for it and it acts kind of like a No Mercy / Fight of Flight. Gives the player more agency and you kind of have to actually use other parts of your kit for it to work - instead of just pressing it and forgetting. The idea I feel like would be for it to act similar to Reaper's Enshroud, but instead of an avatar, you merge with Fray.

->Delirium should just be a special combo that you can use every 60 seconds. 5 actions all GCDs into one button. Plenty of older abilities that can be used ( ex: Old delirium, spinning slash ), or design newer ones where you slash at the enemy like a madman.

->The current bloodgauge should really not be a copy paste of Warrior's. Instead it could augment defensive actions, so that if you use used TBN with >25 blood, it heals you for 10% of your max HP. Or if you used Oblation, with >25 blood, it grants a heal over time. You generate blood when attacking with some abilities and from blood weapon. You should have a spender that just consumes it in case you reach the maximum value, which would heal you or a friend for some potency. Also another cool ability would be one which grants you blood whenever you get hit. Would help in conjunction with the new bloodgauge in sustaining yourself against more enemies.

Also one thing I forgot to mention which I see a lot of people pointing out is that the Darkside aura we have right now is barely noticeable. Would it really hurt if this job would get some more attention and love in the animation/effects area? Warrior's aura is very cool, and PLD got 3 new cool GCDs with a lot of care towards having at least an engaging rotation and more importantly fallowing and building on its class fantasy and design.

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The idea I feel like would be for it to act similar to Reaper's Enshroud, but instead of an avatar, you merge with Fray.

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With how reaper is basically damage Dark Knight, I'd try and keep dark away from this. Mostly because this is what reaper build towards and is sort of it's main thing. Having two edgy shadow classes with a big rage button is going to make it hard for either to stand out. Not that i don't disagree with making living shadow more interesting.

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The current bloodgauge should really not be a copy paste of Warrior's. Instead it could augment defensive actions

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With the conversation on blood becoming a defensive gauge I would ask if such a change would be pushing DRK into paladins shtick? DRK does the most damage and has to give up something, not that it doesn't do off tank help. If I could do any change for DRK it would make the get rid/change the blood gauge so it is not stolen from warrior but I would like to make sure that if it does we know what direction we're shooting for?

Life steal from other post in the thread talk about life steal, but functionally it's best served as a main tank like warrior for example. A gauge like this sounds like we're trying to be more of a support.

Which is fine but I think a good question to see what direction DRK should go, as it is currently DPS tank buddy.

Funny how GNB's dps is almost identical with us but nobody ever say they need to lose something.


Don't believe me? check the log site.

The problem is that right now you have:
A tank with 1 weave after every action which is GNB.
A tank with a gauge and strong attacks which is Warrior.
A tank with not many off GCDs and a static rotation which is PLD.

That leaves DRK with very little room for originality because designing a tank is much harder then a DPS. You cannot make the tank have skill speed or a fast rotation for example, because then where are they gonna weave in defenses?
I am gonna try and clarify my previous post:

->Delirium should be a combo of 5 actions similar to PLD's Confiteur combo, but instead of 3 actions, you have 5. You get Delirium at 68, so the main combo of the job is there in lvl 70 ultimates.
->Get rid of the blood gauge or perhaps turn it into a resource from which you can obtain health. Ex: you store blood by attacking/getting hit, and you consume it to heal yourself using defensive abilities. This fits pretty well because you heal from the blood of your enemies, and your own. This wouldn't push it into PLD territory because PLD uses the oath gauge to use defensive actions, and obtains said gauge by doing auto attacks, while DRK has to deal damage with actions to augment defensive actions. Different.
->Living Shadow could either be a buff similar to GNB's No Mercy, or Frey could just copy your abilities that you execute, oGCDs included. But it should no longer just do its own thing so you can forget about it. Its a boring ability. This is your only level 80 ability that you get from lvl 70 -> lvl 80. It should be interesting since its one expansion's whole worth of an ability.
->Bring back Scourge as a DoT. The downtime between bursts is very boring :( you have nothing to do other than your only combo. At lower levels you also have nothing to do than your combo and Edge. Getting this early would be good.
->Your DarkSide aura can barely be seen, while Warrior's is incredibly visible...why?

With these changes the level 90 burst would feel so much better with you using Living Shadow and then the Delirium combo, and the Living Shadow traits would actually be important and significant when Fray copies everything you do. You'd have something to do when not bursting and your bloodgauge would be different to PLD and help you survive a bit better.

There might be ways to make DRK faster in short bursts, though I guess this would cause disalignment for raid buffs, maybe.
But say that Blood Weapon grants Haste again, could have a heal attached to it, or a cumulative Barrier proc on all successful attacks during the effects. So during this period you are faster, so harder to weave, but you get a defensive effect with it

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Originally Posted by ItsUrBoi

You cannot make the tank have skill speed or a fast rotation for example, because then where are they gonna weave in defenses?

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This is only the case if attacks around which the defensives must be woven do not have flexible timing. Such is true, for instance, of Continuation (affixed to 3 consecutive CDs per rigid 30s), but not of Edge of Shadow, or even the second charge of Shadowbringer.

I think we're forgetting that making DRK -- one of the two tanks with the heaviest weapons and one of the two tanks with Spell actions unaffected by Skill Speed -- into a fast attacker is nontrivial in the first place.

And honestly, not particularly fitting either, unless they have a burst phase where they enter a delirium (which once again thematically overlaps with Warrior, the literal Berserker job).

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Originally Posted by The_User

Funny how GNB's dps is almost identical with us but nobody ever say they need to lose something.


Don't believe me? check the log site.

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thats because GNB got DRK's fast playstyle. SB blood weapon's haste was like continuation, add in DA and you got multi ogcd spam in between gcd spams. I wonder what other tank plays like that?

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

I think we're forgetting that making DRK -- one of the two tanks with the heaviest weapons and one of the two tanks with Spell actions unaffected by Skill Speed -- into a fast attacker is nontrivial in the first place.

And honestly, not particularly fitting either, unless they have a burst phase where they enter a delirium (which once again thematically overlaps with Warrior, the literal Berserker job).

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The Skill Speed - Spell Speed merge such would desire would already be 4 expansions late at this point. It should happen regardless.

And it's also the original (i.e., until Shadowbringers) design of DRK. DRK was the high-speed, high-apm tank.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

And it's also the original (i.e., until Shadowbringers) design of DRK. DRK was the high-speed, high-apm tank.

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Yes, keyword "was". It has since been outmoded in that regard, if it was ever fitting for the job in the first place.

Again, purely based on my own imaginings of the jobs, but if I had to consider the tanks most likely to be a high APM attacker:
1. GNB - How they attack is pretty much the only element of the job that has a clear visual thanks to FF8. They have one of the lighter weapons, a continuous combo and the ability to spend cartridges to propel the blade for quick swings. I'd also add them being the most mobile job just based on Thancred in the trailer.
2. Tie, depending on your standards:
- WAR - As I said before, "entering a delirium" sounds more like something a Berserker should do, and the point of axes in Ye Olden Times was the ability to build momentum with continuous movement. Ideally it would frenzy for a high speed phase and then "cool down" back to a naturally slow state.
- PLD - Also wields a light weapon, though it doesn't have fancy tricks like gunblade cartridges or a berserk rage to speed it up, just pure skill. Should just be slightly faster attack speed as a baseline.
4. DRK - Heavy weapon and magic. They should be the definition of powerful blows, not necessarily quick ones.

You could argue that it might be higher up on the list if you use Remake Cloud as an example, but even then he is the slowest fighter on his team by a mile, and he has to stance dance for higher speed swings.
And I don't think Cloud's a great example of combining the magic aspect, just swordplay.

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Your DarkSide aura can barely be seen, while Warrior's is incredibly visible...why?

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I think I can answer that actually. Back when we had HW darkside that was a permanent until we lost it, People would wear it all the time like tank stances. This cause a lot of problems with visual noise in cities when you had a bunch of people standing around glowing on the then new class.

So they eventually dimmed it down, and the same visual is used for current darkside which is only seen in combat.

Darkside Thick Red Aura will never came back because now it's Reaper's enshroud effect.


Dark Knight's Powerful Blow? jp community has been asking for it since shadowbringers. Some even suggested cutting the sword lifting animation of Bloodspiller to make it look less clunky or give it a dragoon jump explosion effect but dev end up use that idea to make WAR new move like Primal Rend instead. Someone in eng community asked for the improvement/rework of a Salted Earth as well as a Powerful Blow sorta attack but where did it turn up? Reaper's Communio.


I think maybe I should start looking elsewhere now... as long as this game still have a higher up who only care about the stock price, a team that only give the best for the job they like, no amount of money could change it and even if it did I would be trading several years of my remaining life along with my loyalty for it. A certain guy already made it know that he already own this game and no player can challenge his authority. If anyone got a problem they can go "play other game" he said.

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

Yes, keyword "was". It has since been outmoded in that regard, if it was ever fitting for the job in the first place.

Again, purely based on my own imaginings of the jobs, but if I had to consider the tanks most likely to be a high APM attacker:
1. GNB - How they attack is pretty much the only element of the job that has a clear visual thanks to FF8. They have one of the lighter weapons, a continuous combo and the ability to spend cartridges to propel the blade for quick swings. I'd also add them being the most mobile job just based on Thancred in the trailer.
2. Tie, depending on your standards:
- WAR - As I said before, "entering a delirium" sounds more like something a Berserker should do, and the point of axes in Ye Olden Times was the ability to build momentum with continuous movement. Ideally it would frenzy for a high speed phase and then "cool down" back to a naturally slow state.
- PLD - Also wields a light weapon, though it doesn't have fancy tricks like gunblade cartridges or a berserk rage to speed it up, just pure skill. Should just be slightly faster attack speed as a baseline.
4. DRK - Heavy weapon and magic. They should be the definition of powerful blows, not necessarily quick ones.

You could argue that it might be higher up on the list if you use Remake Cloud as an example, but even then he is the slowest fighter on his team by a mile, and he has to stance dance for higher speed swings.
And I don't think Cloud's a great example of combining the magic aspect, just swordplay.

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I'd say Cloud is actually a good example since he is conceptualized as a Mystic knight/Dark knight. Otherwise the Dark Knight draws big inspiration from Guts, who is deceptively quick with his swords despite their size, especially when he uses the berserker armor, which would be our delirium/dark side equivalent. So DRK being quick with the heavy weapon because of dark magic would work

What I'd certainly want from the job right now especially with the savage dungeons coming out would be for 2 things realistically:
-> Some good dungeon sustain ( doesn't matter if its a shield you get when you get hit by a lot of enemies, or a heal )
-> Something to do while you are not bursting other than your only combo.
-> Delirium changed to not be just Inner Release
-> Fray having more interactions such as he copies your abilities.

I'm honestly quite scared of how DRK will perform in those savage dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Kalaam

I'm honestly quite scared of how DRK will perform in those savage dungeons.

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It'll either be really good if its handled like mobs from HoH or POTD, or really bad if this is just more wall to wall content.

In any case, it won't be the tank you bring for speedruns I think xD

I wouldn't really fret about Savage dungeons until we have a little more idea of how they're designed and where the difficulty is supposed to come from. I don't expect them to just be regular dungeons except the healing/mitigation checks are turned way up (though it's certainly possible).

Maybe they really are focused on burning down basic AoE packs with high damage numbers, and WAR is the only playable tank.
Maybe they're almost entirely moving from boss to boss and you really do get raid-style all-magic tankbusters every 20 seconds and DRK is the easiest tank to heal by a mile.
Maybe the healing/mitigation check is a joke but the DPS checks aren't, and GNB/DRK are considered safer picks than PLD/WAR.
Most likely, if I had to guess, the raw tanking/healing/DPS requirements won't really be much higher (if at all) from doing leveling dungeons or Expert roulettes as a fresh 90 in AF, and the difficulty will come from mechanics, with something akin to Twice Come Ruin that forces you to take them seriously.

Maybe they're something that SE plans on making into a semi-important part of the game moving forward, and they'll be mindful of relative class balance, or maybe they view them as akin to solo Deep Dungeon niche content, where the majority of classes in the game will be, if not completely nonviable, then drastically worse than the handful of classes that are specifically good at it, and SE just views that as being okay.

Keep in mind also that there are different paths down that dungeon supposedly. So one or more of the tanks will suck down certain paths, and the playerbase will figure those out and probably have a guide on which paths to go down as X tank within a week.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Keep in mind also that there are different paths down that dungeon supposedly

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Not in "Another" or Savage modes.

Normal Mode is basically a Deep Dungeon: no role restrictions, 1-4 players with a 4-player matchmaking option. This is where you get the branching paths. It's made to be played whether or not you have any tanks, or have a party full of them, regardless of what branches you take, and will have NPCs supporting you.
It'll really only matter what job you have if you choose to solo run the place, and even then it's not like PotD floors 101+ or HoH 31+ where the challenge mode extends off a solo run.

"Another" is Light Party only with role restrictions, fixed dungeon and story structure (no branches), with limited resurrection options similar to Baldesion Arsenal.
Savage then takes those restrictions and adds: premade parties only, zero resurrections, enemies get stronger if you don't burst them down fast and will revive if you wipe.
In these it will matter what tank you have, and you won't have a "different path" workaround.

Branching paths is in normal mode only, and I'm assuming it won't be harder than your average leveling dungeon so balance won't be a huge deal there. Lot of unknown details though until they give more info.