Main Scenario Restriction Bloodstorm - Very Very Bad idea.

There are certain dungeons that aren't tied to the msq, but these are because they have literally nothing to do with the msq. The ones that are tied to the msq are there because they literally develop the story. Looking at how they design content, they don't have anything that's, 'Here, just spam this for exp, later'. There aren't any pointless instances in game, all of them have a purpose. Not up to stone Vigil? Yeah, the adventurer isn't gonna risk his neck diving into a dragon's nest on a childish whim. Having a reason for the madness is part of why this game is so great. Everything has a purpose, everything has a reason.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

That doesn't counter what I said. Introducing the dungeons with a story does NOT have to necessitate tying them purely to the MSQ. The MSQ can still send you into the dungeons, but there should be separate short quests a la all the other unlock quests that only require a certain level instead of MSQ completion.

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Alright, let me make this a bit more plain since you are incapable of understanding.

This game is heavily focused on the story. Period. If you don't like it. This is the wrong game for you. Period. Everything, not just dungeons, is tied to the MSQ. Examples:


Inn Rooms and Levequests - You are such a nobody that you have to prove yourself to the Adventurer's guild through the MSQ before you can have access to these.

Airship Transportation - You can't even leave your starting area, until you advance far enough through the MSQ and get an airship pass.

Retainers - your 'bank' and your ability to sell on the Marketboard. You have to reach a point in the MSQ before you are even allowed one. (Shortly after you meet Minfilia for the first time)

Personal Mounts - You have to be invited to join a Grand Company after drawing their attentions with killing Ifrit (more MSQ). Before that, you are just a nobody.

Job Crystals - Though they put it in to combat RMT, you now have to get just past joining a Grand Company in the MSQ before you can even advance past being a base class.

The Isle of Umbra - Sub zone of Western La Noscea, you cannot go here till you reach a certain part of the MSQ.

The Heavensward Jobs - You have to advance through the MSQ to the point you enter Isghard before you can even pick them up, because their stories revolve around why you are in Ishgard and what you've experienced thus far. (I.E. Dark Knight is heavily influenced by the MSQ)

Flying in Heavensward zones - Yep, even this is locked behind the MSQ because there are aether currents as rewards.


So, with ALL that.. Explain to me, why in the world would they ever retroactively go back through the game and untangle EVERYTHING from the MSQ, just because a few people would prefer to skip it and have access to everything without the "why?" It's completely ludicrous to even ask for them to consider it at this point. The MSQ is the driving line of FFXIV, like it or not. That is the counter argument, and as absolutely plain as I can make it.

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

Very Very Very bad idea let players skip stuff or give them level 60 by the face. Games starts form the beggining, not from the end. Sorry but the XXIth century "gamer" mentality of "please give me all here and now without time and effort" is the worst thing hapenning in the videogame world. So, I won't support such thing. Games start form the beggining.

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The only reason that has ever worked in games like WoW, is because each expansion is its own individual story, despite the lore that has encouraged its birth. Bloodstorm could be seen as a direct continuation from Realm Reborn, since Ishgard was practically a side trip to tie up loose ends created by Realm Reborn's latent events. Unless people get a kick out of starting from the middle of a book and reading from there, with no proper context or idea as to what just happened for the past 300 pages, it'd be a terrible idea to offer a jump.

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Originally Posted by CheshirePuss

The only reason that has ever worked in games like WoW, is because each expansion is its own individual story, despite the lore that has encouraged its birth.

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Wut?

So, uh...Blackwing Descent. Please elaborate how that is not tied to Onyxia and Blackwing lair from Classic. In WoW, you can do Magisters Terrace and have Kael'thas say something about a setback, then do Tempest Keep and see that you were the setback he was referring to - that is within the same expansion. And the entire story about Illidan in Legion is a continuation of the burning crusade (Where, I think, he still sits comfortably in Hellfire Citadel?). It works in WoW because people simply don't give a damn.

There is some difference of course - WoW actually gives you a lot of lore from WC3 or the books in WoW itself, so that you can understand what's happening. The battle at icecrown glacier, Arthas fall from grace etc etc, all those little things you need to understand what is going on that happened prior are given a quick recap, much like most book authors keep briefly re-introducing characters - every time Munstrum Ridcully appears in a discworld novel, there will be a note that he is the arch-chancellor of the unseen university, even though followers will already know that. SE would just have you play through WC3 or read their first book first before allowing you to create a character in WoW or open the second book and then eschew giving those recaps.

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

Very Very Very bad idea let players skip stuff or give them level 60 by the face. Games starts form the beggining, not from the end. Sorry but the XXIth century "gamer" mentality of "please give me all here and now without time and effort" is the worst thing hapenning in the videogame world. So, I won't support such thing. Games start form the beggining.

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This post deserves to get even more likes.

I could personally do without the crowd in WoW coming over and trying to make FFXIV like WoW. Requests like these are how it starts. Ending up with a community like over there is how it ends. I'll pass if I get a vote.

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Originally Posted by NotEvenClose

I could personally do without the crowd in WoW coming over and trying to make FFXIV like WoW. Requests like these are how it starts. Ending up with a community like over there is how it ends. I'll pass if I get a vote.

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The world feels alive the way the MSQ is weaved into everything. You are in this location for a reason.

Every location you visit has a purpose. Hell, future jobs might even comment on what you did in ishgard making the world you're playing feel alive and expand.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

That doesn't counter what I said. Introducing the dungeons with a story does NOT have to necessitate tying them purely to the MSQ. The MSQ can still send you into the dungeons, but there should be separate short quests a la all the other unlock quests that only require a certain level instead of MSQ completion.

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I'm surprised you keep coming back to FFXIV. I recognise your name from various FFXIV related forums and I find myself rather concerned - much of your discussion regarding the game is negatively worded and you seem to often express a desire for sweeping changes to be made for your own convenience even if they do not fit the game's model/pattern.

Dare I say it but you may very well be happier elsewhere. Or at least happier here if you acknowledge that the current model works for a great many people playing this game and is related to why they chose FFXIV as their MMO of choice.

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Originally Posted by Dorander

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Very few of what you listed were blocked for real story reasons. Your second point is false as you are perfectly able to run out of the Shroud and into Thanalan regardless of MSQ completion. Access to retainers doesn't really make much sense being locked to helping the Scions with the MSQ, considering there's nothing in the lore that says they're only something the Warrior of Light can use - being of sufficient level suggests enough growth of influence/power. Personal mounts make zero sense, as I don't need a Grand Company's permission to use a mount that is not provided by the Grand Company (couerl, behemoth, ahriman, fat chocobos, the broom, etc). Not sure why you mentioned job crystals because there's clearly no actual lore motivation behind restricting that. Likewise plenty of "average joe" npcs can sail to and from the mainland to the Isles of Umbra without being a hero of the Scions - so why must we?

I've already discussed at length why I feel that the HW jobs do NOT necessitate being in Ishgard. It's not like we are unaware of Ishgard prior to HW - we interact with them through Coerthas. The 30-45 stories can easily be done outside of that (and in fact, DO take place outside of it).

Not a single time have I advocated removing story from the game. I've simply pointed out where limitations make no sense and where they can be reasonably lifted without affecting the MSQ at all.

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Originally Posted by FinalWolf

The world feels alive the way the MSQ is weaved into everything. You are in this location for a reason.

Every location you visit has a purpose. Hell, future jobs might even comment on what you did in ishgard making the world you're playing feel alive and expand.

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I can be in Sastasha (or whatever else) for a reason without having to wait for the MSQ funnel me there. The MSQ can ALSO send you there, but it doesn't take much thought to realize there are plenty of reasons to venture into these places beyond "Minfilia/Thancred/etc told me to."

I think people should be allowed to skip the story if they really wish, but still need to complete the instances. I understand and agree there are way too many scenario quests now for new players to drag themselves through to get to relevant content, but we can't have level 60 (70 by then) players who literally don't have a clue how to play the game. That wouldn't be fair on current players.