Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

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Originally Posted by Veritas-Ancora

Please leave your politics out of this game

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This much I agree with. No good can come from it.

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Originally Posted by MitsukiKimura

I'd be embarrassed writing what you just posted. Yes Woke lamat ruined my Dawntrail Story experience. Honest opinion, straight forward. Backseat VR scion experience.

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I'd rather have Wuk Lamat than any story you might drum up from your world experience or pretty much every other negativity charged forum poster here. I'd tell you guys I feel bad for you but you wouldn't even believe it.

Can we please leave real life politics out of this ?

Wuk Lamat problems has nothing to do with DEI, and have everything to do with being a Zero 2.0 with 10x more omnipresence in the story, while being childish and perfect at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Gunz_Zbestest

I'd rather have Wuk Lamat than any story you might drum up from your world experience or pretty much every other negativity charged forum poster here. I'd tell you guys I feel bad for you but you wouldn't even believe it.

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Did you bring into question a persons real life in response to their statement about their experience with a video game's character?
And then sort of back-handedly (in my opinion) insult them?

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Originally Posted by Gunz_Zbestest

I'd rather have Wuk Lamat than any story you might drum up from your world experience or pretty much every other negativity charged forum poster here. I'd tell you guys I feel bad for you but you wouldn't even believe it.

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Trust me I wouldn't want your pity and I think nobody else would care for it either

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Originally Posted by MitsukiKimura

Trust me I wouldn't want your pity and I think nobody else would care for it either

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I do trust you, that's why I try my best to avoid people like you. Keep your miseries to yourself and I'll try my best to save my happiness and care for myself and my friends.

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Originally Posted by Gunz_Zbestest

I do trust you, that's why I try my best to avoid people like you. Keep your miseries to yourself and I'll try my best to save my happiness and care for myself and my friends.

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I didn't know Wuk Lamat made a forum account

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Originally Posted by MitsukiKimura

I didn't know Wuk Lamat made a forum account

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We're not happy until you're not happy! - The three stooges.

https://i.gifer.com/IcKQ.gif

For my take, the story of DT feels very much like a fan fiction set in the FFXIV universe with a self-insertion wish fulfillment character and you WILL like her or you're wrong.
The character interaction feels absolutely forced. Does that mean I don't like Wuk Lamat? Well, she's not a bad person. Being socially awkward, sea-sick, air-sick, easily lost, clumsy, etc, doesn't make her a bad person. But is she someone I'd spend a lot of time around or seek out her company? Not really.
But you don't get that option. Everyone has to love Wuk Lamat, want to hang out with Wuk Lamat, etc, or be a "bad person".
And the story has almost no nuance to it. The villain, so far up to Solution Nine where I finally tapped out and ditched Wuk Lamat at the mall, has a completely irrational motivation to bring war so people that already have peace will... want peace.. or something..... Wuk Lamat wants to keep the peace and repeats that so many times it makes you wanna shout "got it the first five times, thanks! Can we talk about other things?"
I certainly hope if there's future story telling they take it away from the fan fiction writer and back into the hands of someone that can write a well nuanced and thought provoking topics and dynamic characters that make sense.

I loved Lyse—her JP VA gave her a way better feel and direction. She sounded determined, introspective, with a sense of inner strength. While the English VA just made her sound whiny and entitled.

So I’m hoping I’ll like Wuk too. But, I find Wuk’s character model pretty damn unsightly, and I’m worried that might be a problem. Then again, I thought Lyse’s model was butt ugly too, and that didn’t stop me from loving her, so maybe it won’t be an issue after all.

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Originally Posted by JohnLakeside

I loved Lyse—her JP VA gave her a way better feel and direction. She sounded determined, introspective, with a sense of inner strength. While the English VA just made her sound whiny and entitled.

So I’m hoping I’ll like Wuk too. But, I find Wuk’s character model pretty damn unsightly, and I’m worried that might be a problem. Then again, I thought Lyse’s model was butt ugly too, and that didn’t stop me from loving her, so maybe it won’t be an issue after all.

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My fundamental problem with Lyse was that M'naago was clearly a far better choice to lead the resistance when the old fella copped it. Plus, yeah, that accent in English. Why did Lyse come from South Kensington when everyone else was from Barnsley?

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Originally Posted by Torashiki

but also the loudest haters of her are mostly transphobes that are grabbing into any issue--

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Wuk Lamat was trans?
Well, slap my ass and call me Sally.

We are only talking about the character here in this thread, right?

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Originally Posted by Torashiki

Wuk Lamat gets too much dialogue and thats about it,

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She is so much worse than just having too much dialogue lol

Her personality is something out of a Saturday morning teenage anime.

Just going to put this here

What's even funnier is they're quadrupling down on her if the 7.2 trailer is to be believed, Square Enix does not learn.

7.2 might be good, Might not. But we all know the incoming storm revolving around Lamat is coming alongside more threats of "I will unsub"

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Originally Posted by danken20

Just going to put this here

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I had to click...and it was horrendous. I never understood why people think, that yelling makes them more right. And that voice....that's still ringing even through my tinnitus...awful.

You must have weak ears then

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

My fundamental problem with Lyse was that M'naago was clearly a far better choice to lead the resistance when the old fella copped it. Plus, yeah, that accent in English. Why did Lyse come from South Kensington when everyone else was from Barnsley?

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M'naago was clearly the better choice, but nepotism and Lyse's father having that power of the name working for her.
My main problem was her entitlement, yes. "Why wont you fight for meeeeee" from a person who has gone through 0 amount of hardship IN ALA MHIGO like the rest of the citizens.

What pushed me over the edge was the fact that whenever she had a monologue on how she learned something, she literally went against that supposedly learned lesson in the next cutscene. She never learned anything and got rewarded for it, but thats nepotism for you I guess. M'naagos name wasnt big enough to rouse the people *shrugs* which is fine for me storywise. Annoying, but believable.



Wuk Lamat? Just doesn't make any sense. She is equally a fish out of water but at least Lyse had an excuse of being out of Ala Mhigo.
We are SUPPPOSED TO BELIEVE, that a person of her country, having lived her whole life in the country, interacted her whole life with the people, even worse OLD PEOPLE, who she claims to be SUPER CLOSE TO. Old people love nothing more than to talk and gossip. AND we are supposed to just put fingers in our ears, cover our eyes and go "lalalala" and believe that those old people didnt tell her ANYTHING ABOUT THE STATE OF THE COUNTRY or ITS PEOPLE, OR THE PAST.
How can she claim to love the country and its people when she doesnt know jack squat about them, nor interacted with them. Surface level writing, protect papas peace.

Worse crime of the story was that it was NEVER unclear who the new Dawnservant was gonna be. The cooking contest shouldve been the last punch in the face hint. Pair up the obvious bad guys with the good guys, or pair up the bad guys together and the good guys together? lol. And Koana sisconning his way out of the contest losing his entire character and motivation to become a cheerleader and further murdered character in 7.2 with the Rroneek Saga, I guess his goal wasnt strong enough to withstand the wuk no jutsu. But again Wukkie isnt the main issue, the writing and pacing is.
Please dont let these writers touch the MSQ ever again, relegate them to "Further Hildibrand" or something.

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Originally Posted by Hallarem

Wuk Lamat? Just doesn't make any sense. She is equally a fish out of water but at least Lyse had an excuse of being out of Ala Mhigo.
We are SUPPPOSED TO BELIEVE, that a person of her country, having lived her whole life in the country, interacted her whole life with the people, even worse OLD PEOPLE, who she claims to be SUPER CLOSE TO. Old people love nothing more than to talk and gossip. AND we are supposed to just put fingers in our ears, cover our eyes and go "lalalala" and believe that those old people didnt tell her ANYTHING ABOUT THE STATE OF THE COUNTRY or ITS PEOPLE, OR THE PAST.
How can she claim to love the country and its people when she doesnt know jack squat about them, nor interacted with them. Surface level writing, protect papas peace.

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So much of it was incomprehensible.

Potential heirs to continent-spanning monarchies spend most of their childhood being groomed for the role. At the very least, use the fact Wuk Lamat somehow knew nothing ("Papa" was an idiot?) as a plot device. Maybe she spent her childhood batting a ball of yarn around the palace.

The whole ceremony of the reeds thing was equally bizarre. Big Bird scratching his head wondering why the crop was failing, despite the fact that the annual festival spewed aether everywhere feeding the reeds!? A fact iirc that the odd carpenter guy knew perfectly well, but chose not to mention to anyone until after the fact.

Is an executive editor named anywhere in the credits? Or are the writers given a rough idea of the filler required between the dungeons and trials and told to just wing it?

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Originally Posted by Antharaes

I had to click...and it was horrendous. I never understood why people think, that yelling makes them more right. And that voice....that's still ringing even through my tinnitus...awful.

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It does appear that many FF14 content creators either rely on squeaky baby voices or harangue the audience like they're making a pitch for class president.

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Originally Posted by Antharaes

I had to click...and it was horrendous. I never understood why people think, that yelling makes them more right. And that voice....that's still ringing even through my tinnitus...awful.

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i am less than 3 minutes in, second listening since the first time didn't leave much, in my head, like any robust, well thought-out counter-criticism.
she seems to think that DT criticism is ridiculous, says that too from the get go. so points for announcing her stance loud and clear like that.
uh, i fail to see how VA Z being trans and VA X being gay have anything to do with anything. anything being their acting skill, i suppose.
also, was that, uh, assimilating drag queens and trans women? drag queens and GSRM/LGBT? anyway...

i could go into nitty gritty, but i won't, because i am out of steam...
i don't think wuk lamat is the worst thing in history of everything. i find her woefully uninteresting. anti-je ne sais quoi, unique in ffxiv's cast because no one else, of comparable importance, is as banal as her.
i don't wan't to talk to her.
sometimes, some people, just don't find fictional people interesting and that is ok.
also, maybe better writing could have save wuk lamat. maybe not. it's too late now.

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If authors and screenwriters do their jobs properly you will hate some characters and love others, whilst some will always stay in the grey area that's somewhere in between. It's also 'safe' to wish a fictional character dead, because it might or might not happen and this 'wishing' is mostly meaningless.
- just interesting quote of slight relevance to the discussion at hand i found, from random internet writer

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

So much of it was incomprehensible.

Potential heirs to continent-spanning monarchies spend most of their childhood being groomed for the role. At the very least, use the fact Wuk Lamat somehow knew nothing ("Papa" was an idiot?) as a plot device. Maybe she spent her childhood batting a ball of yarn around the palace.

The whole ceremony of the reeds thing was equally bizarre. Big Bird scratching his head wondering why the crop was failing, despite the fact that the annual festival spewed aether everywhere feeding the reeds!? A fact iirc that the odd carpenter guy knew perfectly well, but chose not to mention to anyone until after the fact.

Is an executive editor named anywhere in the credits? Or are the writers given a rough idea of the filler required between the dungeons and trials and told to just wing it?

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Last time I checked a lot of the writers had roles in other departments like encounter design and quest design, then there was one who had written some mobile "nurse anime dating games"
But could be just that the IMDB / CV thing wasnt accurate for credits. Most likely victims of the oh so great Japanese system of pushing people into roles they arent supposed to be in.

But its clear the writers at the moment have no place to writing this story, we need nuance, politics/worldbuilding in again. That human touch, character development.

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Originally Posted by danken20

You must have weak ears then

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Ofcourse, it has nothing to do with that godawful screeching voice.
Besides that, it's never a good idea, to voice your opinion in that manner, because that's all it is, an opinion.

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Originally Posted by danken20

Just going to put this here

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Good God that person was annoying and so completely off the mark on practically everything they were ranting about.

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Originally Posted by Antharaes

I had to click...and it was horrendous. I never understood why people think, that yelling makes them more right. And that voice....that's still ringing even through my tinnitus...awful.

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https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.5282...000,f8f8f8.jpg

that video is literally this

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Originally Posted by danken20

Just going to put this here

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Suffering through the squeaking and cringe...

Yea it is unfair to compare DT to ARR, doing so is an insult to ARR.
The problem with the voice actor is that they clearly wasn't hired for talent.
I really don't know where the One Piece comparisons come from, and it's hardly Naruto either... Maybe if there was a 4kids Naruto dub.
The Warrior of Light does help people, that's why we helped Ok'Hanu and Mamook and literally no other place in the entire expansion.
Yea there was a candidate who was going to try to go to war with the continent of Eorzea if they won, that was Zoraal, but he was going to literally try to invade across the ocean without a navy.

Zoraal was just fucking stupid.
Stormblood Zenos was just pure evil from the start, he was very much just looking for strong enemies to fight because fighting was literally the only thing he ever cared about in his life, he was treating his territories like shit because he wanted them to rise up against him so he had a justification to beat them up... But then they ruined him by bringing him back.

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Originally Posted by Arohk

there is your problem:

https://i.imgur.com/vr0vJvS.jpeg

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Honestly, none of the problem with DT have to do with DEI. Some part of the anglo-saxon public is up its ass with it that it doesn't even realise that English is not the first version, Japanese is, where WL is voiced by and refered to as a female, and same goes with the french and german versions. I've seen a lot of english content maker reference her as them, because she is voiced by a trans-woman in the english version, and I find that so weird. Why do the V.A. spill over the character?

And in all occurences, the verdict is the same, it's badly written, but this has nothing to do with DEI, with the exact same reason why. The people trying to paint paint DEI as the problem of DT, the people trying to say people don't like the extension because they're racist/transphobe, etc... You're all the same clowns, you deserve each other...

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Originally Posted by danken20

Just going to put this here

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This is wild... I left after less than a minute, when she says she watched a lot a video a did watch, and the first sentence after that is "Most of the complain is about Wuk Lamat". What? It's not even my native language and I understand that's not the main complaint in those videos. Do you have a reading/listening problem?

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Originally Posted by danken20

Just going to put this here

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Holy fuck that was cringe and completely misunderstood every complaint

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Originally Posted by danken20

Just going to put this here

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I watched the whole video. It honestly just comes off as someone who is far too invested in defending Dawntrail because of how much their tie their personal identity to it instead of an actual counter-argument for many of the primary criticisms that have been expounded upon numerous people over the year.

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Originally Posted by arstoka

I watched the whole video. It honestly just comes off as someone who is far too invested in defending Dawntrail because of how much their tie their personal identity to it instead of an actual counter-argument for many of the primary criticisms that have been expounded upon numerous people over the year.

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For listening to her. https://media1.tenor.com/m/7WjKtALzM...o-de-wayne.gif

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Originally Posted by danken20

Just going to put this here

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I'm surprised 69 people on the planet liked this video.

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Originally Posted by arstoka

I watched the whole video. It honestly just comes off as someone who is far too invested in defending Dawntrail because of how much their tie their personal identity to it instead of an actual counter-argument for many of the primary criticisms that have been expounded upon numerous people over the year.

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That voice is exactly as soy as I imagine most of the Twitter Wuk Lamat defense force to be lmao.

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Originally Posted by MitsukiKimura

I'd be embarrassed writing what you just posted. Yes Woke lamat ruined my Dawntrail Story experience. Honest opinion, straight forward. Backseat VR scion experience.

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And the only reason was "woke" Lamat?

What's your name for Lyse then? Or if it would have been any other character?

But people like you will never understand that. All you can do is seethe and blame everyone else for stuff they don't like.

After playing through 7.2 and seeing the general response to it who would've thought that people ended up enjoying the patch a lot more because of Wuk Lamat being pushed further and further into the background? Almost like other characters and things exist, go figure. There are obviously a few other things people like about this patch too so far like the raids, but I just find it funny that the story is just that much more bearable without Wuk around 24/7 even with the flaws it still has.

Still absolutely not a fan of her...existing at all. But hopefully we just have to wait a full patch or two longer to finally breathe without Wuk Lamt being shoved down our throats.

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Originally Posted by Shialan

And the only reason was "woke" Lamat?

What's your name for Lyse then? Or if it would have been any other character?

But people like you will never understand that. All you can do is seethe and blame everyone else for stuff they don't like.

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You want reasons? Alright
Person that never understood their people's culture suddenly knows how to bring back dead crops with a festival with no explanation
Talking about peace and happiness of her people drove me insane thinking she could lead a country with only this reason felt like disney writing to me
It personally felt like this was her story and we're just sitting back for the ride the amount of talking she done. Has more voice lines in one expansion than any other cast member out of 5 expansions.
We cant even have a final battle without her in it. Killed my experience and enjoyment.
"But people like me will never understand that"
Give me an option she'd be thrown out a window I just hope she's gone by 8.0 and I never have to see her again.

If DT's head NA localizer, Kate Cwynar, did have as much influence over the story and lore as she would like us to believe—and if it’s true that she was heavily involved in hiring Wuk’s NA voice actor, Sena Bryer (as one might expect, given her role as voice director for NA)—then it’s not unreasonable to conclude that Wuk’s massive presence in DT is tied to the localizer’s wokeness (or whatever you want to call it).

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Originally Posted by Shialan

And the only reason was "woke" Lamat?

What's your name for Lyse then? Or if it would have been any other character?

But people like you will never understand that. All you can do is seethe and blame everyone else for stuff they don't like.

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Birds of hate, generally flock together. It's a waste of time to engage with people that use dehumanizing language like that. Anyone that uses woke or soy unironically obviously has an inferiority complex.

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Originally Posted by Gunz_Zbestest

Anyone that uses woke or soy unironically obviously has an inferiority complex.

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It depends. Maybe we need a better term than “too woke” to describe writers being overly cautious and afraid to create complex fictional characters or societies that are anything less than 100% sterile and perfect—especially when those societies are based on real-world cultures—for fear of offending people from those backgrounds. I’ve even “met” a South American player who said he suspects that’s exactly what the DT writers were afraid of.

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Originally Posted by JohnLakeside

It depends. Maybe we need a better term than “too woke” to describe writers being overly cautious and afraid to create complex fictional characters or societies that are anything less than 100% sterile and perfect—especially when those societies are based on real-world cultures—for fear of offending people from those backgrounds. I’ve even “met” a South American player who said he suspects that’s exactly what the DT writers were afraid of.

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Here's a question, do you even know what the term "woke" means? Let me Gubal that for you.

woke(verb): alert to and concerned about social injustice and discrimination.

If you're saying the writers are being alarmist? Then I don't think so - even people who have different beliefs actually can still write a shoddy story for 7.0/7.1. To be fair, we also didn't have "Wuk shoved down our throats" as people are claiming this time because Sphene needed development from her cryostasis of 400 years. Sure, Wuk was present, but she was a little better in 7.2 than she was in the previous two patches - which is an improvement. I won't call it perfect either.

In general though, I think they made good on culture, just did it wrong with Wuk not having any depth. Whoever has taken over the writing has done a better job, though I'm still wondering how they're going to finish out the expansion story. They at least aren't going to the length that post-patch EW was with a giant nostalgia trip - but I think that they used the references better instead of outright copy pasta-ing story beats/villains while mixing a tiny bit of XIV in.