While I dont think a "direct" HP requirement on skills is the best way to do things (exceptions being things like superbolide) in the example you gave, theres other ways to do it. such as having a buff that triggers when you sacrifice HP, which increases heals received for a bit. Another is to have a "pool" of.. oh, idk... lets say "Blood" that you can also use in place of HP, if you saved up enough. etc (you already covered HP drains/selfheals).Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim
but im of the opinion HP should only be consumed if its towards defensive skills that easily out weight the cost of HP. (besides superbolide, TBN could cost 5% of current HP, grants 25% shield. basic healer regen probably would top u off anyways, if u absolutely needed that 5% hp to survive something even with TBN up.)
side note: With the current designs/options in game, id say this statement is more than reasonable, but with a little imagination, id say you could base an entire class on "wasted regens" (which i have a tank class dedicated for this in my own game)Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim
ooc, what would be the point in making it "not worth it"? superbolide is an example of using it perfectly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim
Dark Knight Megathread
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10-30-2021, 12:38 AMClaire_Pendragon
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10-30-2021, 01:07 AMItMeThat sounds interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon
What is your game called and how can I try it out? -
10-30-2021, 01:07 AMReinhardt_AzureheimBolide being a high CD invuln, using all your HP except 1 is justified because it essentially offers limitless eHP through damage nullification within the duration, justifying the CD and HP cost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon
Your TBN example is a soft nerf to current values which is more relevant to auto attacks in final savage floors and ultimates, but I could handwave through "barely" since luckily 5% isnt too much and is likely covered by Souleater.
However, take into account that WAR has a similar ability in Thrill of Battle (+20% maxHP and 20%HP shield are of equal value numerically but thrill also boosts heal effects) and has an arguably superior short CD ability in Nascent Flash and soon also Bloodwhetting, which is where it could get difficult regarding "why would I play DRK if I could play WAR instead".
Conversion of HP is just as important as asking if another tank will do this exact task with equal or greater benefit / equal or lesser hassle for the group. It can be done, but the keyword is " finetuning". -
10-30-2021, 01:10 AMMagiusNecros
Just make TBN free or let TBN have no CD and just let it cost MP. But that still doesn't fix DRK's problems of self sustain with Souleater and Abyssal being underwhelming heals. Or Living Dead. Or Blood Weapon being shit. Or Living Shadow costing Blood on a 2 minute CD and being in the fucking way as a glorified DoT. Or Salted Earth being made objectively worse. Or Shadowbringer being a buffed Dark Passenger.
And bring back Blood Price. If the issue is mah MP mah dps then give the DRK ways to restore MP. Even a skill that just gives you MP like BLM manafont would be preferable.
Really getting tired of them giving you a skill that's on a long CD but also costs a resource. Jeez Louise.
This class needs a whole rework and at some point they need to fix or change their invuln, give some resource return, have skills that synergize with each other meaning MP and Blackblood interact, and they need to NUKE Delirium from orbit. Being a shit Warrior as a class design is poor class design IMO.
Everything about it is incredibly DULL. -
10-30-2021, 01:52 AMReinhardt_Azureheim
^ minus.the TBN part, all my issues with it as well.
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10-30-2021, 01:58 AMAlucaDragonheart
Been playing a lot of FF11 Dark Knight recently, and it's disappointing how it's more fun to play as the Dark Knight from a 2002 game, then it is to play as the Dark Knight from a modern MMO.
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10-30-2021, 02:08 AMMagiusNecrosWell you know honestly I don't really like TBN on the metric that DRK's mitigation is completely built around it and it really fucking sucks once the novelty wears off. I really like the concept of having a frequent damage shield but on the other hand you really have nothing else to fall back on. Like the skill is good but it's also garbage at the same time. Like you have a truckload of mitigation problems for a whole 69 levels. It's just damn awful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim
Being gutted each expansion is going to make players wonder what DRK was like that made each xpac fun or manageable when the way you played the class was different in each one. -
10-30-2021, 02:32 AMReinhardt_AzureheimCan see where you are coming from with this, TBN is in fact integral to DRK's strong single target mitigation niche since Stormblood and frankly parr of reason, why Living Dead was kept intentionally "worst invuln" to balance it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagiusNecros
Now with Endwalker tho - oh boy. Buffed Holm and Bolide to 10s, gave every tank insane short CD mitigation upgrades that are on par or even better than TBN and DRK gets... Oblation, on 60s CD รก 2 charges, essentially a "free reprisal". And LD is still in the archaic 3.X state.
Hell the Dark Mind issue could be resolved by just adding a counterpart with equal stats but for physical - Dark Dance comes to mind for flavour purpose.
Anyhow, I loved DRK to death, even now, but the Endwalker changes and addition were just... "why".
Enough is enough, even for a diehard TBN and MP spam enjoyer. -
10-30-2021, 03:28 AMArthurATDayneI would be pretty happy if DRK had something to fall back on once TBN is gone via popped or expired and a flat 10% Lame Oblation/Free Reprisal is Not Enough or Not It.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagiusNecros
Since every other Tank Short CD Mitigation is going the smart route of Layered Defenses + HP recovery (HP Recovery is part of Layered Defenses) of some sort the DRK should at least get some upgrade to HP recovery to improve Sustain, doesn't have to be huge, just sensible.
I.E. I would be pretty content even if the change was small like say Abyssal Drain's CD was decreased to 45s or 30s and the healing gave a flat Minimum of 600 Potency to 1200 Potency Max on 4+ Mobs or something, maybe add a Guaranteed Heal over Time component so Abyssal Drain doesn't feel like shit to use on 1 Mob like say a Boss. I don't think this is too much to ask.
If Abyssal Drain is intended to stay as a Fluff skill then why not just add a decent Heal Over Time component to TBN if Bubble Pops or Expires? Personally I'd love to get a 10% Reduced Damage Taken effect of 5s after Bubble is gone but a Heal Over Time effect would be more useful considering the whole kit because DRK Sustain is lacking compared to the other 3 Tanks going into Endwalker.
Hell, if Oblation is going to be forced down DRK's throat I would hope it eventually gets a significant Heal Over Time component at least. Could even make Oblation a new skill that DRK can use Pre-Level 50, Oblation is Lame as a Level 82 skill and really should've appeared at low 30-69 leveling at least, and no doubt most players are going to use it after TBN pops bc the alternative is what? Not using your extra 10% Reduced Damage Taken?
SquareEnix could also tack on that Heal Over Time component at Level 82 or something because 70-80 DRK is pretty OK for most of the game's accessible content. -
10-30-2021, 05:55 AMDerio
Depending on how good Holy Sheltron and the new HC is. Might have to go away from DRK. From a basic mitigation and sustain standpoint all other tanks are looking much better.