Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

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Originally Posted by Rivxkobe

It technically states that it only heals those with Confession Stacks:

Restores HP of all nearby party members. Potency varies with current Confession stack.
1 Confession: 400
2 Confessions: 500
3 Confessions: 600

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What they could do for Plenary Indulgence is have it heal for a potency of 200 on partymembers who don't have Confessions. It will be weak but at least somewhat useful as an oGCD AoE Heal that has a quicker cooldown then Assize.

I've been using Divine Benison as much as possible, but still think it needs an upgrade. It's locked behind lillies and once you use it, it consumes all of them. There's a 30 second cooldown, you get it at level 66 and it only lasts 15 seconds. How is this fair? For AST in Nocturnal Sect, they can put up a shield for 250% of what it heals. It has 200 potency + 15% for being in Noct. It lasts 30 seconds and is obtained at level 34. It's an instant cast and has a cooldown of just a couple seconds. It's also not locked behind anything.

It's just crazy that AST takes a big chunk of both WHM and SCH and after playing it for a few days I can already feel how much more powerful it is than them. In one party finder group for Lakshmi EX, I actually got told to leave just for being a WHM.

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Originally Posted by Mogana

I've been using Divine Benison as much as possible, but still think it needs an upgrade. It's locked behind lillies and once you use it, it consumes all of them. There's a 30 second cooldown, you get it at level 66 and it only lasts 15 seconds. How is this fair? For AST in Nocturnal Sect, they can put up a shield for 250% of what it heals. It has 200 potency + 15% for being in Noct. It lasts 30 seconds and is obtained at level 34. It's an instant cast and has a cooldown of just a couple seconds. It's also not locked behind anything.

It's just crazy that AST takes a big chunk of both WHM and SCH and after playing it for a few days I can already feel how much more powerful it is than them. In one party finder group for Lakshmi EX, I actually got told to leave just for being a WHM.

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I finally hit 66 (been lvling BRD as my main in SB) and unlocked Benison.

It absolutely does not make up for the loss of Stoneskin -- BUT, i am liking Divine Benison as a skill so far. Beyond the problems with the lily system (which definitely impact when/how we should be using DB) it seems to have a very natural use as a skill you keep on cooldown as much as possible. It feels pretty good to follow up any Cure II with a DB if available, kind of makes Cure II feel like a mini Adlo which is actually a nice rewarding new ability for getting to the higher levels.

My real problem with it is how late it comes in the leveling curve. As I recall, Stoneskin actually felt like a powerful utility as a low lvl WHM -- I can recall using it on the old 2.0 story mode trials and some of the tougher dungeon bosses. I really think that DB needs a low level equivalent or a re-working of Stoneskin so that we have a low lvl shielding ability that naturally upgrades into DB once you hit 66.

Right now it feels pretty odd to get a shield, something WHMs have not prior experience with and making it a focus of the job's kit. If they want WHM to also shield now they need to introduce it earlier on so people get used to it.

I actually haven't felt anything wrong about Divine Benison. I've been using it and it feels really good in all honesty. It being locked behind lilies seems weird but I primarily see it as an upgrade to Cure II, in most instances. Generally I will Cure II > Benison so it flows really well. I do wish it would have better accessibility in Trials though. Going Cure II > Benison is good and all but it's hard to plan it for a tank buster when lilies are uses up so easily. I think if they changed it so everything just uses 1 Lily instead of all lilies WHM would flow even better.

PI is literal trash though.

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Originally Posted by Ceasaria

It's different from a stoneskin or a shield.
Your co healer (Ast or Sch) will use shield before a tank buster.
Divine Bension is for after a tankbuster.

The way how it's designed (locked behind Lilies), I use Cure II + Divine Bension after a tankbuster, not before.
It's a good maneer to prevent the tank to die with an auto-attack, or other damages after.

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I am definitely using DB all the time as it is and generally have no qualms with it, except -

The biggest issue with this will continue to be that pre-healing does not generate a lily as the mechanic is currently coded with the network (as multiple people have reported), so to do this after a tankbuster you need to have already generated a lily via topping off or sitting on it, or you have to delay your Cure 2 long enough for it to register, which leaves more time for the auto attack to happen afterward, helping negate the shield's (and Cure's) entire purpose in that scenario of "survive the 2 seconds of burst." If you have to generate it before, you may as well just shield before the buster, which I've been doing with regular success in Susano. It also gets the cooldown rolling slightly faster.

We can work around it, but this exact scenario of cure 2 + immediate DB on an already full-hp-tank does not play out how it ideally should if you're pre-healing tankbusters. Better hope you get to be the one to top the tank off.

It's certainly extra mitigation if you're popping it 2-3s after a tankbuster, sure, but at that point it's just another heal/tetra/PI since the tank is already down x-hp. Not that that's bad or anything, perfectly fine to use it as exactly that very often.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

I actually haven't felt anything wrong about Divine Benison. I've been using it and it feels really good in all honesty. It being locked behind lilies seems weird but I primarily see it as an upgrade to Cure II, in most instances. Generally I will Cure II > Benison so it flows really well.

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I guess if you just see it as extra EHP for dungeon trash it's fine. Just kind of sucks in raid level content, where the boss is spamming AoEs (so you'll probably want to use assize, asylum, etc) and then follows up with a tankbuster. Cure II will just massively overheal, so... you either avoid the oGCDs and spend extra mp/avoid mp recovery, or do without. Of course with the other 2 healers it's not necessarily but it would be a lot more useable if there was more control over it....

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

I guess if you just see it as extra EHP for dungeon trash it's fine. Just kind of sucks in raid level content, where the boss is spamming AoEs (so you'll probably want to use assize, asylum, etc) and then follows up with a tankbuster. Cure II will just massively overheal, so... you either avoid the oGCDs and spend extra mp/avoid mp recovery, or do without. Of course with the other 2 healers it's not necessarily but it would be a lot more useable if there was more control over it....

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Yeah, I'm mostly referring to dungeons and basic trials. In harder content it is frustrating to line it up with a tank buster because, like I said, so many abilities use all our lilies and the only way to gain a lily 100% of the time is with Cure II. It's very weird in higher end content, but in everything else it's very good.

While it's true the Cure II will most likely over heal, the WHM has such amazing MP management that I almost never cast Cure I and I still never run out of MP. So the 100% chance to gain a Lily to cast Devine Bension is worth it for me. (Unless your other healer decides to heal them to full HP right before you get your cast off... so frustrating)

Also, I think there's a mindset people don't realize yet. As we get higher and higher levels , tanks and party members in general are getting more health. I feel at the end of the Stormblood expansion Cure I will be so outdated as a viable healing tool. Warriors already have such a massive health pool (like 70k+?) I never try to heal them with Cure I. The amount of GCDs wasted trying to heal their health back up would be such a big loss in my own damage.

I believe with all this new MP management you can cast spells that you couldn't cast nearly as often as before. We just can't live in the past.

I'm just going to drop my feedback on the (un)usefulness of Divine Benison here.

Divine Benison uses up 1-3 of your lilies, and creates a barrier that absorbs 15% of the target's max health worth of damage. It also lasts 15 seconds. But the thing is, because it only protects against 15% it only lasts a split second when putting it on a tank mid-fight, and then using it on a DPS during a boss ends up being a waste because nothing happens to them for 15 seconds. I've found maybe one or two uses for it, but even then I still need to have lilies that I may have just spent on an Assize or Tetra, or am about to need.

Not to mention the fact that the PvP version of the ability is, for some reason, more useful than the PvE counterpart. I'm not even kidding, it's 25% in PvP, instead of 15%. I don't even care if it's non-usable on yourself in PvP. It's more viable to use on others anyway when you can always risk them to sustain yourself.

The shield it gives is like a sheet of paper thrown between the tank and the mobs. It gets shredded in an instant, wastes your lilies with no proper benefit, and you're better off just casting another Cure II or popping off a Tetra to sustain them long enough to get HoTs applied. The only use I've found it is if I've got a spare Lily when a DPS is about to get hit by something, and even then all it does is prevent a small portion of health from falling off.

And, like it says on the front page of this thread, the fact that we've had 4 spells taken from us and made into Role Actions (that you don't even get more slots for as you level) makes us even less viable than before. Protect? Slot 1. Esuna? Slot 2. Shroud/Lucid and Divine Seal/Largesse? Slot's 3 and 4. I refuse to not have Swiftcast after wasting time leveling Thaumaturge to have pre-4.0, so Slot 5. And yes, we can swap out Protect in dungeons. But when tanks dart off into the first group of mobs the moment you start casting Protect, you no longer have that option to stop and change things out.

The Lily system I honestly have no quarrels with. If anything, it's made me use my cooldown heals more often because of the cooldown reduction. But Benison, Plenary and Secret of the Lily II being my high-end rewards for leveling White Mage? After having most of our useful kit stripped of us and given to Scholar and Astrologian? I'm not enjoying it like I was hoping I would.

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Originally Posted by Iris_Lokspuhr

snip.

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You can edit your post to go past the 1k character limit to the new max of 10k characters. :p

FFS will they ever make our damn weapons at least face the right way

After Playing WHM in susano ex and lakshmi ex for the last week here are my suggestions:

1. Remove the damn lilies. I never even look at them. I just immediately press benison after a Cure II. Just put benison on a 30 sec cast time and be done with it or incorporate the shield into Cure II via a trait.

2. Instead of your funny Lillies you could have given me a Job Gauge that keeps track of all the Regen Timers. That would at least be worth looking at.

3. Plenary Indulgence is completely useless. Might as well give me a trait that gives me the chance to reset the recast timer of tetragramation on a cure crit. Same effect and you don't need to implement a useless mechanic to do so.

4. Why for the love of god can i see another WHM's confession stacks? In the rare occasion that I actually use them I have to double check if the stack is even mine. Did your QA team actually play this game beyond a story dungeon?

5. I have too much mana regen. Yes that actually needs to be nerfed. I can die mid fight in susano ex and end up with full mana a minute later while playing normally. A DPS on the other hand is completely useless after a death. How is that fair?

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Originally Posted by magnanimousCynic

You can edit your post to go past the 1k character limit to the new max of 10k characters. :p

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Thanks for the tip. Never posted on here before so don't know too much about how it all works. :o

Reiryuu

One problem with lilies and devine benision.
It's a personal experience (Susano, Lakshmi EX)

Let's say a tank buster is about to come.
I'd like to use devine benision. Unfortunetaly, I have no lily. So I'd like to cast a Cure II to get one and shield the MT. However, my MT is full life (and other member of the party as well), so I won't proc any lily and won't be able to use Divine Benision.

=> The fact that procing lilies only works if your target has HP to be healed is a problem, based on the example I wrote above.

After a handful of dungeons with my now 70 WHM, I feel I can finally give input on Plenary Indulgence without mimicking what I've read.

I should be a lawyer, with the amount of confessions I get. I kid you not, I've gotten several stacks of 3 confessions on tanks and maybe 1 or 2 on a DPS on a fairly regular basis. That said, the heal of PI is absolute weak sauce. Even with 3 stacks, the heal is absolute garbage and hits for about as strong as Tetra is normally. The timer on confessions also needs to go. RNG heals should NOT be a thing, let alone RNG heals that can fail because of some arbitrary time limit on them.

The skill needs a lot of work honestly, because even in the impossible case that you were able to get 3 Stacks of Confessions on every single player in your group without a single 1 falling off before hitting PI, the fact is that you're better off using Medica as an AOE heal because Medica is a more cost effective and reliable heal. If nothing else, I'd prefer if PI became a buff to the Lily mechanic and using PI would enhance the next ability that drained Lilies. Using Assize would have better healing/damage or even spread the 10% MP restore to other people in the group, Tetra becomes a guaranteed crit, etc.

There is no ability or trait from level 60 to level 70 that has the potential power to justify the amount of gates they have on them currently.

Would Benson be even a little overpowered if they removed lily usage? No

Would PI be that horrible unbalanced if they removed the confession timers? NO

Not sure if this was already stated in the thread but does anybody feel like it's a bad idea to use PI on any other heal other then 1 stack (the rare cases you get it) based on the simple fact that the heal you get from one stack compared 2 or 3 is less then using it every time you get a stack. The increase you get from each stack after the first feels underwhelming. on top of being a generally underwheling skill.

My issue with PI is that it falls off too quickly before you get another proc. Extending the timer to 60 or 90 seconds would go a long way to improving the ability. Heck, they could go as far as making the stack stay on until you zone just like the lilies. That would make it much more useful but as it stands now, I just punted and macroed PI into my cure button and consider it a "crit" if it goes off.

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Originally Posted by Sepix

After Playing WHM in susano ex and lakshmi ex for the last week here are my suggestions:

5. I have too much mana regen. Yes that actually needs to be nerfed. I can die mid fight in susano ex and end up with full mana a minute later while playing normally. A DPS on the other hand is completely useless after a death. How is that fair?

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I would recommend that you hold back on such statements until after we have experienced Omega Savage. I have a feeling that Savage healing is going to require a lot of healing.

My suggestions:

1: Remove the recast time reduction from the lily system; and instead have the lilies enhance the potency of each ability upon use. Ex: Tetra heals for 50 more potency for each lily; Assize gains 25 more potency to damage and healing per lily; Asylum's regen gains 25 more potency per lily; Divine Benson's shield absorbs 5% more HP per lily (perhaps reduce it's base shield to 10% HP for zero lilies). I feel that this would enable whms to use lilies in a more strategic manner, choosing which ability is best to enhance for a given situation.

2: Remove the requirement of having a lily in order to activate Divine Benson. (Not much to say here that has not already been said)

3: Remove the confession stacks from the game; instead have PI perform an AoE heal with potency based on the number of lilies (increase its recast time to 30s to compensate)

4: Increase the chance of recast time reduction from Secrets of the Lily 2.

SE,

Please regard this as an assessment performed after completing currently existing end game content. Despite what many posters are stating, I think that you actually executed a few things well. The outgoing damage and the control over MP is fantastic. Divine Benison can be a great ability when our tanks are not wearing item level 270 strength accessories. Please, don't burn everything to the ground like I see some posters requesting. Instead, considering the following major tweaks:

• Patch 4.01 was an improvement to lilies. However, it is still an issue that you cannot reliably shield tank busters on demand. If anyone tops off the tank prior to your Cure finishing, you will not generate a lily. This can be resolved by either reducing the base lily cost of Divine Benison to 0 or by separating Divine Benison from the lily gauge.
• The current chance for a Confession to be generated (20%) is too small to make use of everything else that you designed into Plenary Indulgence. At this rate, we may occasionally get 1 Confession on 1 target. We may or may not notice that it is there to begin with. If we notice within the 30 seconds before it expires, we can try to redeem it if an opportunity happens to arise, which is not always the case. I can see the parallels between Plenary Indulgence and Lady of Crowns. The current version of Plenary Indulgence is lacking because it is not obtained at the rate of Lady of Crowns and because Confessions expire unlike Lady of Crowns. In a good party for the extreme primals, WHM uses Cure about as frequently as an AST uses Minor Arcana. I would then logically conclude that Confessions should at least have the 50% chance to be generated every 30 seconds like Lady of Crowns does. To handle the Confession expiration issue, I would either remove the expiration timer or increase the chance for Confessions to be generated to even higher.

Also, please consider this minor tweak:

• Divine Benison would be absolutely fine as an ability with a 30 second recast that lilies had no effect on if we could use it while having 0 lilies.

Few things that need to happen:

1. Benison - either we need to completely do away with it using lilies, OR it needs to only consume one single lily. The last option would be to base the shield on lilies consumed, i.e. 1 = 15%, 2 = 20% and all 3 = 25%

2. Confession stacks - need to be like 50% to proc, and need to be apart of the WHM lily bar. I do not understand why every other job keeps track of it's main buff through the bar, but then the introduce these confession stacks NOT a part of the bar. Or, better yet, do away with Confession stacks all together and make the heal be based on how many lilies you have. That would be my ideal solution to PI.

3. Stone IVs animation is ugly - I preferred Stone III

Other than these things, I'm actually loving using the lilies. It feels so damn great when Assize is up every 45 seconds. Thin Air is amazing coupled with Presence of Mind.

Please consider making lilies proc off of regens, maybe at a rate of 10% a tick for regen, and 5% for medica 2, something like that. as I've been leveling various classes I've ran into so many whms who out and out refuse to use their regens, because if the regen heals the tank before they land cure 2, they get no lilies. This has lead to large pulls driving them oom because they're relying on cure 2 and ONLY cure 2. Lilies should never proc off of an overheal, this is true, but please do something to stop people playing in this counterproductive manner.


I feel like the lily system is confusing players on how to play the class. Please show people that regens are powerful and efficient. Make whm have a cohesive toolset that all comes together. Also please make bension work independent of lilies. It just seems like a slapped on requirement that doesn't make much sense in the context of how lilies work otherwise.

From 4.01 Patch notes under Resolved Issues:

"An issue wherein Lilies were not added to a white mage’s Healing Gauge even when requirements for obtaining Lilies were met."

Woop woop here's *hoping* it's the no-lilies-from-preheal thing. We'll see within a day.

http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...691b3fadfb35e5

Also, on the general lack of changes aside from tank enmity, do note they've stated their full adjustments for classes will be coming for the 4.05 patch:

Translation of post on reddit, bullet points - https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...e_adjustments/
Paragraph version - https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ments/djr5gsi/

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Originally Posted by Buff_Mama

Please consider making lilies proc off of regens, maybe at a rate of 10% a tick for regen, and 5% for medica 2, something like that. as I've been leveling various classes I've ran into so many whms who out and out refuse to use their regens, because if the regen heals the tank before they land cure 2, they get no lilies. This has lead to large pulls driving them oom because they're relying on cure 2 and ONLY cure 2. Lilies should never proc off of an overheal, this is true, but please do something to stop people playing in this counterproductive manner

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this is quite a problem. i did the same in the beginning, until i just stopped caring about lilies altogether and went back to how i healed in HW. regen is one of the most important skills a WHM has, but it can potentially limits lily generation as you described, which is a serious problem. i stopped couting how often a regen tick (or a shield from my co-healer) prevented me from getting a lily long ago, there is just no point. the lily system is something you best dont care about (aside from divine benison - which i hope they remove the lily restriction!) and just use your skills regardless.

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Originally Posted by Buff_Mama

Please consider making lilies proc off of regens, maybe at a rate of 10% a tick for regen, and 5% for medica 2, something like that. as I've been leveling various classes I've ran into so many whms who out and out refuse to use their regens, because if the regen heals the tank before they land cure 2, they get no lilies. This has lead to large pulls driving them oom because they're relying on cure 2 and ONLY cure 2. Lilies should never proc off of an overheal, this is true, but please do something to stop people playing in this counterproductive manner.

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yep. I've been in the new 8 man raids multiple times. I've seen many many many! white mages who do not use regen and only cure I/II to gain lilies. I honestly just ignore them myself. If i have them great! if not... oh..well...
Instances like Susano where you have to aoe heal a lot, cure I/II are negligible, therefore no lilies.

my short commentary on the new WHM skills/traits after some time of testing:

thin air (62): fantastic ability! makes MP management so much better! please do NOT nerf this in any way SE, i beg of you!!!

stone IV (64): more stone dmg, alright

divine benison (66): good to have at least some form of shielding after stoneskin was taken from us. would love it to be AoE though. but please remove all lily mechanics from this skill SE!

Secret of the Lily II trait (68): uhm... 20% that a crit reduces cd by 5 seconds? thats a joke right? could be great if regen crits would also trigger it, and/or if the chance was 100% on crit, but the way it is now it is simply 100% garbage

plenary indulgence (70): at first i was really sad that we get something this useless as lvl 70 skill, but by now i think it could actually be a great skill - could - if the chances were way higher and the duration of the buff way longer. increase the chances to 50%, double the duration, and add a 100% chance to cure 3 for everybody hit, and we have a fantastic lvl 70 skill. if that is too strong tune down the potency a bit (it is already quite low though) but we really need a reliable way of using it! pure chance does not safe lifes!

in the end, i am rather disappointed with the new WHM skills (especially compared to the WHM skills for HW, which were all great), but they are not totally bad. a little adjustments here and there is all that is needed for the new WHM skills/traits in my opinion

the lily system itself on the other hand... oh well i talked about how messy that is in other posts already

Hey guys - I went ahead and tested to see if the 4.01 change was for Lily generation while pre-healing.

It certainly appears to have been fixed. See below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbPOi3nY9mA

I don't think I could time a heal better than the third one shown there, and all three pre-heals generated a lily.

Edit: Just to make sure, I also went out and slept a mob just so I could be in combat while healing myself at 100%. No lilies were generated, so it indeed seems to be a pre-heal change and not a "We removed the overheal aspect entirely" change.

I just got to lvl 70 on my White mage and I fail to see how to put my new "Pure healer" skills to good use.
Should I overheal with Cure I and II until everyone gets to have 3 stacks of Confessions? Just in case?

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Originally Posted by Etwo

I just got to lvl 70 on my White mage and I fail to see how to put my new "Pure healer" skills to good use.
Should I overheal with Cure I and II until everyone gets to have 3 stacks of Confessions? Just in case?

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Lol no. My suggestion is just heal as normal and squeeze in PI if it pops. Don't rely on it at all.

PVP
3 Lillies have 50% Cooldown reduction
Divine bension is affected by the cooldown reduction
Lillies obviously work better with only ONE aoe heal that IS affected by the lillies and only a 10 second regen.
Divine bension is usable more because it is affected by the lillies
You use Assize more because you can heal more people with it, get mp and do abit of damage. Overhealing in pvp doesn't matter that much.

PvE
3 Lillies have a 20% cooldown reduction
Divine Bension is NOT affected by lillies. AT all... but needs one and EATS all.
I do NOT use Assize on cooldown. Same as for Tetragrammaton and Asylum.
Only exception is... let's say, Dun scaith. When everything goes down and you're busy ressing people so they're meatshields for Diabolos hollow. Then i use assize on cooldown for the mp. But guess what? I don't have time using cure 1/2.

The only time i get a lot of lillies is when the tank pulls a lot in dungeons. Undergeared, everything hits like a truck and you basically heal against the wind because tank takes more damage than you can heal sometimes.
But the thing is. The skills MOSTLY are ready for the next pull. I never felt rewarded for having 3 lillies and then using Assize/Asylum/Tetra because i almost never got many for bosses.

I've been playing white mage since I first started playing, so I just wanted to give my thoughts about the current white mage.

From my perspective all the 60-70 abilities feel like upgrades to previous abilities.

Thin Air doesn't do anything by itself, just saves mp for other spells;

Stone IV is just an upgrade to Stone III;

Divine Benison is a replacement for Stone Skin;

Plenary Indulgence is... something... (too situation but a nice bonus if procs happen).

I feel like the entirety of the expansion abilities are meant to focus on what was given from 1-60. Assize and Benediction have their CDs slashed and this makes them feel so much more useful and prominent, almost like rediscovering the ability themselves (especially Benediction it feels like), and Thin Air only makes Cure II/ Holy spam more viable. Lilies themselves are OK, I never notice them except for DB, but using Assize with 3 lilies just feel so good for some reason (but yeah its largely ignored and is just 'there').

What does this mean? Everything white mage did well in 3.X they do even better in 4.X, while also solving a lot of mana issues. In regards to my thoughts on this I do not mind it at all, for now. Being forced to use a lot of CDs for pulls feels overwhelming and rewarding, especially when things are looking bad. But I think this kind of feeling also existed at the start of 3.0. What I mean is white mage is still very good for progression. There's a lot of emergency tools that can redeem a tricky situation very quickly, but there lies the problem: we have a lot of emergency tools that aren't good if there's no emergency to heal. When people get used to content and have the urge to speed run everything I don't think white mage will be that much better than it was at the end of 3.X. Scholars have a lot of problems, but raid utility was not nerfed and Chain Stratagem alone is reason enough (AST pre-godhood was essentially a Balance machine too) to bring one.

As the progression phase ends I find it hard to believe that pure healing throughput will matter because every job must be able to heal the bare minimum, and the meta never demands more than the bare minimum healing. So for now I find white mage fun and engaging, and the new skills OK enough. A lot of people seem to be tunnelling in on the scholar nerfs, but I don't think that will matter in the long run and white mages will once again be left out due to its 0 raid utility.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

I would be interested to hear your thoughts after you have done them, since they are (Susano ex especially) a bit movement intensive.

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Sorry for the delayed response. We got to run Susano and Lakshmi EX tonight with my raid static. We only ran Lakshmi once for clear since we wanted to primarily focus on getting weapons for the group so I'll focus on that.

We were running WHM/AST for our group and it didn't take me too long to get acclimatized to the fight. There's not a lot of damage going out overall when mechanics are being dealt with appropriately though both of us were running on fumes during one or two of the runs due to a few deaths + messed up mechanics. There was a moment where I hit the dirt in one of our early clears but I was able to get MP back without too much issue. Coordination with my healer partner helped us out overall and we were trying not to overlap heals too much since popping Thin Air during Ukahi spam let me solo heal with ease and generally speaking as we got used to mechanics MP usage grew less and less.

I did notice PI seems to have a delay similar to Benediction which irritates me and I ended up losing someone due to that so I'll just have to play around with it more.

If I had Benison available for a tank buster, I'd use it then. Otherwise I'd leave the shields to my healing partner and the DRK tank we had and use Benison on the other tank after Cure II'ing after the tank buster'd tank up. I might just ignore the cure II next time and just pop a Regen and let the tank tick up afterwards since they shouldn't be taking any serious damage after that much mitigation hits the table from other sources. Overall Benison still did what I wanted it to do and I made use of PI when I got the stacks, which was rare of course.

Overall despite the amount of movement the fight requires there's always plenty of time to move since Susano is a bit of a precise dance but there are plenty of non-threatening points after damage goes out to keep things together. I still don't have any complaints about the WHM kit and just looking to see what I can do the optimize the fight better which generally means me getting more accustomed to the fight and making sure my raid does the same so there's even less healing to worry about and planning out my CDs accordingly.

I keep seeing people say lilies do not effect benison, but they does, scroll over it with 3 lillies, its a 24 sec cooldown then.

Gonna have to make three posts to fit all this in but I've been a WHM since day one of 2.0 and here are my thoughts.

Lilies should give you more CDR than they currently do (4% for 1 Lily really?), if anything they should be more like 10, 25, and 40%. Also I think this whole CDR thing from lilies should affect all our abilities that have a cooldown instead of just a handful to give it more use. Divine Benison just needs to either cost 1 Lily or lose the Lily requirement altogether it already has a 30 second cooldown what purpose does it serve having the Lily requirement on it too? Let us generate Lilies from all our healing skills except Regen ticks this includes such as Cure 3, Medica, Medica 2. How about giving Lilies a passive effect while we have them like increased Spell Speed or something.

Continued....

Now for Plenary Indulgence oh man this one just sucks all around a mediocre heal at best and the stacks fall off, plus we can see the other whms Confession stacks which makes it even harder to know if they are ours. It's basically being used as a oGCD tank heal because we only get stacks from Cure and Cure 2. For this to get any real benefit you need to gain stacks from our other healing abilities like Cure 3, Medica, and Medica 2 it would also help to remove the timer on the stacks or make it much longer like 60 seconds instead. However I'm against this skill altogether we don't really need it and it's just something else for us whms to track when the only thing we need to track is our party's HP and our Lilies.

Continued still...

Finally I come to utility for whm, we desperately need to bring some utility to the table for our party. We have no shield anymore because you took Stoneskin away and gave us Divine Benison instead with it's limits plus being a higher level skill so it's useless for lower level content. Here's some ideas to provide whm some utility in our current ability kit, Presence of Mind an aoe effect for the party, Asylum a damage reduction effect, and Assize a damage boost effect to the party or to those the heal hits.

I just tested and yes, Divine bension IS affected by the lillies.
2 is 27 seconds cooldown
3 is 24 seconds cooldown
The tooltip however, fails to say ANYTHING about the cooldown reduce on the skill.

Yeah, it's a secret that makes it less terrible to use it when you've got more than one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cheremia

The tooltip however, fails to say ANYTHING about the cooldown reduce on the skill.

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Wat?

/10char