#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

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Originally Posted by Y2K21

So what people would be doing in Dawntrail with new jobs....anyways? Like come on.

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People do all sorts of things. I have little interest in the new jobs. And I would be maining healer in DT is the role didn't feel so weak in pointless in lots of the content I enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Y2K21

Just because I dont agree that the strike will be impactful, doesnt mean its trolling. It means I dont agree the strike will be impactful to what is being asked for.

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I made it clear enough that the vibe of trolling is related to being pushy trying to get people to unsub, not about a generic disagreement over the outcome of the strike. Getting people to unsub will only work against them. It's the same irl, when people go on strike they don't resign from their job. And anyone that goes into that with some version of "you know, you should just resign, that will teach them" most likely has a hidden agenda and isn't concerned about the person that is striking or the cause of the strike.

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Originally Posted by Terasan

You want an effective way to show them? Unsub for longer than a month or two. Money speaks.

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For the hundredth time, money doesn't do jack. People have already quit over the state of healers and it didn't work. Unsubbing is ineffective.

Plus it seems like a lot of you just want this to go away and out of sight with those statements, knowing that we would no longer be able to leave feedback while unsubbed. Not happening. Instead, I'm happy to provide an increase to dps queue times throughout all of Dawntrail. :)

One thing I don't get from this back and forth that's going on.

Doesn’t nerfing tank sustain and making things hit harder produce the exact same result?

The only difference I can see is that nerfing doesn't lead to powercreep while making things hit harder will.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

One thing I don't get from this back and forth that's going on.

Doesn’t nerfing tank sustain and making things hit harder produce the exact same result?

The only difference I can see is that nerfing doesn't lead to powercreep while making things hit harder will.

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not really, heres why okay

Lets say a group does hit harder, but what does it matter if a warrior just pops a self heal and heals all that damage that is incoming. There has to be more to it than just increasing damage because all that does is put a bandaid on the proplem, which in a way not only solves nothing but it also makes things harder on tank jobs that have very little self healing like gnb and drk ... I dont know a perfect solution but increasing damage alone won't solve anything outside of one week if even that. When a damage is increased it doesn't matter overall when every aspect of the damage that is incoming is invalidated by how much self healing a class has, warrior has multiple not just 1 self heal but 4+ increase damage isnt going to fix anything.


just increasing a mop or bosses damage is like putting a band aid on a major cut that needs stitches sure it will prevent some blood from spilling out but it doesn't really matter if the one with it bleeds out. There has to be more done than just these bandaid fixs on both sides of the coin to a major problem.


and for it to realisticly be enough damage to make healers have to heal in battle, at that point the warrior self heal is irrelvent like dps blood ability (yes i use it on my monk alot) but it does nearly nothing so its nearly pointless to pop. Honestly my solution to healer proplem is neither a or b.. my solution is C. grant these buffs that grant other players self healing so healers have a healing system, a support system and a dps system.

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Originally Posted by WeakestZenosEnjoyer

If they increase damage to counter bloated tank sustain (more and harsher raidwides, more and harder TBs), they also have to bring DRK and GNB (and PLD sub 80) up to WAR levels and we've literally just indirectly nerfed WAR and post-80 PLD, they also have to apply their changes retroactively through all Endwalker content and every dungeon since Raw Intuition,

or they could change a couple WAR and PLD numbers

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my stance on the question from another thread

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Originally Posted by aiqa

It's the same irl, when people go on strike they don't resign from their job.

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No, its really not lol - usually striking leads to negotiation with those in charge because a large aspect of your workforce is now not working and protected from being fired. Usually, unless you wildcat strike - a lot of strikes are done after negotiation to an issue has fallen through with objectives to cause further negotiation/deal making as it will affect the business.

What is being described is a protest, not a strike. So no, not as applicable.

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Originally Posted by XiaoShengwu

i am specifically against further damage abilitys & skills being added to healers as it is (from my point of view) counterproductive to the original purpose of the class. We have enough of them already.

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Would you be happy playing a SMN job with fewer healing buttons?

My gut feeling is that most players would prefer something like SMN + 4/5 healing buttons versus 14/15 healing buttons + 4/5 DPS buttons.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

One thing I don't get from this back and forth that's going on.

Doesn’t nerfing tank sustain and making things hit harder produce the exact same result?

The only difference I can see is that nerfing doesn't lead to powercreep while making things hit harder will.

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That problem is that you lose to much freedom in how to balance lower difficult content, and that in principle I disagree with tank selfheals overshadowing heals from healers in any content (like WAR during dungeon pulls). A few example numbers to make a point, these are obviously not intended as realistic for FF. And ignore many things like a tank having health.

If you have a tank that maintains 2000 HPS selfheals, and a healer that heals 1000 HPS heals per on a single target (so on the tank). And you want to set a difficulty so players are expected to do 60% of their optimal HPS, then incomming damage should be (2000+1000)*0.6= 1800. And an good tank wouldn't need a healer for that.

To avoid that, you increase incoming damage to 2100 and players are expected to do 70% of their optimal HPS. So then the healer has a place in that content, and would need to do a minimum of 100 HPS (yay). But after a few weeks the tank gets some gear upgrades and HPS goes up by 10% to 2200. And it's right back where you started, healer not needed.

Now lets say you lower tank HPS without changing incoming damage (1800), but the expecting healing is still 70% (so difficulty is the same as the second example). Thet would mean the tank DPS can be lowered to (1800/0.7)-1000 = 1571 HPS. That tank gets those same gear upgrades and that goes up to 1571*1.1=1.728 HPS. So the tank still can't solo heal the 1800 incoming damage.

So why does this mean lower difficulty content in particular points towards lower tank selfhealing?
In savage/ultimate content it's generally considered fine to balance the requirements of a fight very tightly against the potential of the jobs (ignoring that this is largely ignored for healing). So for ultimate fights you could require a healer to do 90% of their potential maximum healing, and it would probably be received as a welcome challenge (if healer jobs were better balanced to handle such challenges). The healing would would need to shift far more extremely towards tanks to make healers useless with such extreme healing requirements. In lower level difficulty content you can't do that. That needs to be accessible for a wide variaty of skill levels. And the lower the difficulty level the more HPS has to shift towards healers to avoid better player not needing healers after a few gear upgrades.

(disclaimer, it's getting late so apologies if grammar suffered)

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Originally Posted by XiaoShengwu

Allow for some potency adjustments to bring healers back into a good spot of relavency.

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a good start to "relevancy" would be to stop giving more powerful healing abilities to non healing classes.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Qt2FRgXO3b4

Literally quit the game en masse , a healer strike where you STILL GIVE THEM MONEY isnt going to do anything

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Originally Posted by Eorzean_username

Pretty much summarises the entirety of your "contributions" to this thread.

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Add to ignore list and move on. They are not stopping. Better to just ignore them.

Why not just give healers more damage options. I mainly play a dps job if the healer having more to do means allowing them to do more damage in between keeping us off the ground, i'm all for it. If you nerf the tanks or the dps classes and make the self heals less effective we'll just be back to this same problem for those job types.
If tank and dps players don't want a nerf that leaves the healers to only heal during aoes and unavoidable damage and revive. As it stands now most healers only have one or two damage buttons, so why not give them more damage to pump out. I see no downside to giving healers more tools. You don't have to take from one class to
give to another. Also giving healers more damage spells just makes the dungeons run quicker.

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Qt2FRgXO3b4

Literally quit the game en masse , a healer strike where you STILL GIVE THEM MONEY isnt going to do anything

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What would help is not having every streamer/youtuber agree with the points raised but then just dismissing the movement entirely because of the name. Those are the people closer to Yoshi-P then anyone but Healers get terrible representation, at least in the west.

The last comment in the video made me laugh though, I agree.

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Originally Posted by 4clubbedace

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Qt2FRgXO3b4

Literally quit the game en masse , a healer strike where you STILL GIVE THEM MONEY isnt going to do anything

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A lot of people have already quit before the strike even started because of the boring the game is.

Legions of players also quit during ARR because of how dull the base gameplay is.

You are looking at a tiny, tiny minority on the forums who both (1) dislike the game, but (2) still tolerate/enjoy it enough to stay. Most of the "dissatisfied" population have long since quit.

I play multiple other MMOs, and I genuinely have not heard anything good about FF14's gameplay when talking to former FF14 players.

The FF14 community is a bubble. I don't think most of you realize just how boring this game is to people outside the bubble.

There's also the issue that game companies are not adept at statistical inference. They think X game got popular because of easily observed factors Y. I hate to use this overused idea, but this is unironically a serious case of correlation, and not causation. Game companies are physically unable to get causal data from their metrics, because there are too many variables that happen all at once in a game. No MMO is doing A/B testing, or running pilot experiments, or exploiting some natural exogenous variation to determine exactly what factor(s) caused a game's success.

Which is why FF14 developers don't necessarily understand that the dumbing down and simplification of the game may not be why the game was successful during COVID at all.

Lest you assume that I'm underestimating their proficiency at digesting statistics, please remember that multiple top tech firms in the Silicon Valley, who hire legions of stat, ML, econ PhDs every year, many of whom are adept at causal inference techniques, all attributed the cause of the consumption boost during the pandemic to initiatives that they've started, coincidentally, during that period, which is why they just laid off all those people after the pandemic. All of them mistake their increased financial performance as being caused by factors that were not even in their control.

They unironically need player feedback, because it's impossible to tell what caused what by just looking at the metrics.

As for why I think FF14 has been successful in EW launch? I don't think it's because this game is any good. Maybe it's better than the rest of the junk in the genre, but I believe, by far, the biggest reason is (1) the pandemic and (2) the marketing and PR.

Unfortunately, many in the community, probably including many in management at Square Enix, attribute their success to the oversimplification of jobs or the casualization of the entire game.

Which makes no sense because no player is buying FF14 because Black Mage got their non-standard lines ripped out. If you look at the player population from HW to SB, and from SB to ShB, they were also increasing a lot, percentage-wise, despite the Gordias "fiasco", despite crafting and gathering being very hard to penetrate, despite TK monk being a thing, despite dungeons actually requiring a healer to clear, despite alliance raids ending in wipes pretty regularly.

Simply quitting isn't necessarily going to get across the desired message either, considering that they don't listen to feedback they're getting through considerably more direct channels.

People keep saying that quitting is better to send the message.

Maybe explain why quitting the game (-1 healer in queue) is better at sending a message than doing DF as a different job (-1 healer and +1 tank/DPS) while not resorting to "hit them in the wallet"?

Because if you actually read the OP, you'd know that "hitting them in the wallet" isn't the end goal, the end goal is disrupting their metrics so they actually do something.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

For the hundredth time, money doesn't do jack. People have already quit over the state of healers and it didn't work. Unsubbing is ineffective.

Plus it seems like a lot of you just want this to go away and out of sight with those statements, knowing that we would no longer be able to leave feedback while unsubbed. Not happening. Instead, I'm happy to provide an increase to dps queue times throughout all of Dawntrail. :)

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Yeah, people unsubbing has clearly not influenced the developers up to this point.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

People keep saying that quitting is better to send the message.

Maybe explain why quitting the game (-1 healer in queue) is better at sending a message than doing DF as a different job (-1 healer and +1 tank/DPS) while not resorting to "hit them in the wallet"?

Because if you actually read the OP, you'd know that "hitting them in the wallet" isn't the end goal, the end goal is disrupting their metrics so they actually do something.

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Thanks, Aravell.

I think what's happening is people are reading the title then jumping in to give their opinions. I feel if people took the time to read Gemina's post, they'd see what #FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE is all about. Switching roles will be twice as effective as simply quitting.

In addition, if we all quit, how will we be able to continue to provide feedback on this, and other topics, via the forums? I don't know about you but I don't plan on shutting up anytime soon.

https://i.imgur.com/mcbNvUH.png

WOW! We're up to 310 likes and 340 pages.

Thank you so much for your support!

Unhappy with the state of healing? Tired of providing feedback only for it to be ignored?

Join the No Healers, No Problems Discord! https://discord.com/invite/jeDzvBf74X

Also a lot of us who haven’t quit haven’t quit because we like other parts of the game and just don’t like healing

Call my opinion on healers wishy washy if you want that I’m not committed enough to nuke my account to send a message on healers but I genuinely enjoy other parts of the game

I love making lore for my character, I love playing with my friends, I love most of the MSQ, I like a lot of the second life elements I just don’t like healer design

So I’m happy to continue enjoying the game on PCT and throw my support behind this because it’s probably between me, Ty and Aravell for “has provided the most feedback on healers” across the entire forums and I’m tired

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

a good start to "relevancy" would be to stop giving more powerful healing abilities to non healing classes.

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i fully agree with you. it would indeed be a good start.

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

Add to ignore list and move on. They are not stopping. Better to just ignore them.

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A bit off-topic, Is there any limit to the number of users that can be added to the ignore list?

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Originally Posted by Aravell

People keep saying that quitting is better to send the message.

Maybe explain why quitting the game (-1 healer in queue) is better at sending a message than doing DF as a different job (-1 healer and +1 tank/DPS) while not resorting to "hit them in the wallet"?

Because if you actually read the OP, you'd know that "hitting them in the wallet" isn't the end goal, the end goal is disrupting their metrics so they actually do something.

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If people quit SE will notice how the active players drops, indicating that more and more people are finding FFXIV not up to par when it comes to choices of other games.
Where if people keep playing but another job it'll show that people still finds the game itself good enough to keep them playing.
And depending on actually how many people change a job or not the numbers might not shift enough for SE to take it as a sign of "something wrong with this job".
Where if people just stop playing it's a clear sign that "people are leaving" and might try find solutions to make the game "better" to keep people from leaving and bring more players.

This is my take at least.

And the phrase "vote with your wallet / hitting them in the wallet" probably comes from how SE is still a company and the main goal of a company is to earn money.
So money might speak louder in those situations.

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Originally Posted by HighlanderClone

despite crafting and gathering being very hard to penetrate

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Anecdotally, though, I can say that I know multiple people who found the Ishgardian Restoration a really simplified in-road into crafting - something they wouldn't have tackled otherwise.

And it certainly seems to me like that's an example of them greatly simplifying a system that, on the surface, seemed to bring in a lot of people who may otherwise have never touched the 1-80 crafting and gathering professions (though, granted, I doubt anyone started playing the game for crafting!).

Just to be clear - I think you're bringing up a bunch of good points about how what they think they know could be wrong! But I also think that in an example like crafting and gathering, they can certainly look at how having a simplified path for the player to follow has increased the usage of those systems across the entire playerbase.

The same is probably true of player jumps in something like, say, the introduction of Crystalline Conflict and the levels of overall participation in PvP. "We made this easier to get into, and now 75% of people play at least some form of this mode semi-regularly, as opposed to the 20% before" (he says, pulling those numbers ouf of thin air) probably isn't that hard to see as a win.

I think if we're talking about the overall userbase, there's certainly an argument to be made that it was some combination of COVID, the WoW-pocalypse, and probably 20 other small factors that led to the userbase growing so quickly. But when you get down into the details of participation in specific features, "more players playing this mode/using this feature after simplifying it/adding new x reward stream" can be pretty statistically clear-cut.

And that might be the whole point - they're likely interested in participation, because participation equals retention. If one healer quits due to system simplification but another ten people start raiding for the first time because they "get it" better or even just flat-out prefer a simpler system, the math becomes pretty clear.

That's what I'm assuming is going on behind the scenes, anyway.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

If people quit SE will notice how the active players drops, indicating that more and more people are finding FFXIV not up to par when it comes to choices of other games.
Where if people keep playing but another job it'll show that people still finds the game itself good enough to keep them playing.
And depending on actually how many people change a job or not the numbers might not shift enough for SE to take it as a sign of "something wrong with this job".
Where if people just stop playing it's a clear sign that "people are leaving" and might try find solutions to make the game "better" to keep people from leaving.

This is my take at least.

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Except, again, you're not asked why you're leaving. If they see subs drop and try and take action, it's a shot in the dark because people who have unsubbed aren't asked for feedback and cannot provide feedback through official means.

But if people simply just don't play healer in queues instead, it becomes very obvious that the problem lies with healers. They then have a clear point of reference when taking action.

Unsubbing is only valid if the end goal is to attack the wallet. You do not need to unsub to attack the metrics, in fact, attacking the metrics is easier if you are subbed.

Take relics for example, if someone unsubs over it, they are taken out of the maximum of the participation numbers, but if someone is subbed and doesn't engage with it, they're taken out of the number of participants. The latter is more damaging to the metrics while the former helps the metrics look better.

It's also worth noting that it's a lot harder to entice people who leave the game to come back than it is to hold onto people who are dissatisfied by appeasing them.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

And the phrase "vote with your wallet / hitting them in the wallet" probably comes from how SE is still a company and the main goal of a company is to earn money.
So money might speak louder in those situations.

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Here you fundamentally misunderstand the purpose of the strike. We do not care about the company, we do not want to engage with the company, we want to engage with the DEV TEAM, and hitting their metrics is the best way to get there.

They also don’t collect data when you quit

If I quit now to send a message how do we know they won’t just pass it off as “someone quitting as the HZ saga is over and DT isn’t roping them in” or “win trading on PVP is getting worse” or anything else

Quitting doesn’t send a defined message about healers and even if enough quit to actually make them panic how do we know one of the ways they would try to bring people back would be to fix healers

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Originally Posted by Tyintheron

I think if we're talking about the overall userbase, there's certainly an argument to be made that it was some combination of COVID, the WoW-pocalypse, and probably 20 other small factors that led to the userbase growing so quickly. But when you get down into the details of participation in specific features, "more players playing this mode/using this feature after simplifying it/adding new x reward stream" can be pretty statistically clear-cut.

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Of course. But let's just take SMN as an example.

SMN is very popular in EW. The change to SMN is obviously the cause.

But there isn't one single change to SMN. There are multiple.

It was made much easier.

It was given much flashier animations.

It was given more utility and made its ability to resurrect more robust.

Can you isolate any of these factors individually?

And there are also factors beyond changes to SMN itself that interacts with the factors of SMN's changes.

For example: what about the lack of a new caster job in EW? Did people gravitate to SMN because it's as if there was a new caster?

Or what about the raid design? Did the raid design incentivize people to pick up SMN?

Did people pick up SMN because they were leveling Arcanist?

I do not think Square Enix has the data or the tech to determine which exact factor caused what. In fact I don't believe it's even theoretically possible because the SMN changes are a package of factors that cannot be disentangled.

This becomes worse when it's data on stuff like Eureka participation. You have no way of knowing why people did Anemos:

(1) Is it because they found Anemos fun?

(2) Is it because they had nothing else to do in 4.25?

(3) Is it because they wanted the relic glams?

I won't hide my dissatisfaction of poor analysis by amateur statisticians in places like /r/ffxivdiscussion: there are people who argue that Island Sanctuary was a bigger success than something like Bozja.

They use the completion rates of IS vs Bozja to show their point.

That's complete idiocy, since the biggest determinant of completion is the time required to reach completion when it comes to IS vs Bozja.

These are three examples that hopefully explain why I am extremely skeptical SE is able to deduce any cause from the data they have.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

Except, again, you're not asked why you're leaving. If they see subs drop and try and take action, it's a shot in the dark because people who have unsubbed aren't asked for feedback and cannot provide feedback through official means.

But if people simply just don't play healer in queues instead, it becomes very obvious that the problem lies with healers. They then have a clear point of reference when taking action.

Unsubbing is only valid if the end goal is to attack the wallet. You do not need to unsub to attack the metrics, in fact, attacking the metrics is easier if you are subbed.

Take relics for example, if someone unsubs over it, they are taken out of the maximum of the participation numbers, but if someone is subbed and doesn't engage with it, they're taken out of the number of participants. The latter is more damaging to the metrics while the former helps the metrics look better.

It's also worth noting that it's a lot harder to entice people who leave the game to come back than it is to hold onto people who are dissatisfied by appeasing them.

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People keep saying that SE has ignored feedback for years.
So if people, like right now, show how upset they are about it and then the numbers of active players starts dropping around the same time.
Maybe someone could put 1 and 1 together and figure out that "Maybe people are so unhappy that they rather find something else to spend their money and time on."

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

because it’s probably between me, Ty and Aravell for “has provided the most feedback on healers” across the entire forums and I’m tired

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top 10 anime betrayals /s

If critics are so confident this movement will fail then why are they so threatened by it? The truth is that it has already succeeded as bargaining with the dev team has begun. Streamers have unwittingly brought the message to the forefront and aided us in mainstreaming it to wider audiences. Whether or not healer participation drops is kind of irrelevant because the team tends to respond to public outcry regardless (see the benchmark for example). People saying to unsub obviously aren't of strategic mind since unsubbing would block us from the forums, which is the only real launching point for this kind of thing despite people memeing the forums constantly. It goes from the forums to everywhere else. So yeah, you're wasting your time at this point.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

Here you fundamentally misunderstand the purpose of the strike. We do not care about the company, we do not want to engage with the company, we want to engage with the DEV TEAM, and hitting their metrics is the best way to get there.

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Who do you think is in charge of the dev team?

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Originally Posted by Aravell

Here you fundamentally misunderstand the purpose of the strike. We do not care about the company, we do not want to engage with the company, we want to engage with the DEV TEAM, and hitting their metrics is the best way to get there.

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I never misunderstood the purpose of the Strike.
I simply answered your comment of "Maybe explain why quitting the game..." and then further gave my own thoughts of why people might bring up the "Vote with money".
"My take" is simply how I look at what people might mean.
Everyone has a take on things, like just now how your take was that I had misunderstood things.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

I never misunderstood the purpose of the Strike.
I simply answered your comment of "Maybe explain why quitting the game..." and then further gave my own thoughts of why people might bring up the "Vote with money".

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So explain how does unsubbing allow engagement with the dev team then?

Unsubbing locks you out of the official forums, so that's already a big stumbling block.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

So explain how does unsubbing allow engagement with the dev team then?

Unsubbing locks you out of the official forums, so that's already a big stumbling block.

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I think they know quitting the game locks you out of the forums and it's a very poor attempt to try to kill the strike. One exception being the girl with pink hair who says "ya" a lot and genuinely didn't realize.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

So explain how does unsubbing allow engagement with the dev team then?

Unsubbing locks you out of the official forums, so that's already a big stumbling block.

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Let's first think of what a Strike usually entails.
Isn't a Strike often when a group of people as disatisfied with something so much that they stop "working", costing the company money the longer the strike goes on.
And that you get locked out of the forum, why not just make a giant thread saying that people will quit playing until SE makes the game more fun for healers/player.
I'm sure that even if people leave, people who still play will keep said thread alive with comments and thoughts about it.
But when continuing playing it's not really a strike in those regards.
So why not simply call it something like #HealersHaveHadEnough if people wants to unite like minded players but still wants to keep on playing and not cost SE any of its income?

just my thoughts.
Whatever people will do is up to them.
I'm just sharing my thoughts as of why people might keep bringing things up like "just quit playing" and "vote with your money".

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

Let's first think of what a Strike usually entails.
Isn't a Strike often when a group of people as disatisfied with something so much that they stop "working", costing the company money the longer the strike goes on.
And that you get locked out of the forum, why not just make a giant thread saying that people will quit playing until SE makes the game more fun for healers/player.
I'm sure that even if people leave, people who still play will keep said thread alive with comments and thoughts about it.
But when continuing playing it's not really a strike in those regards.
So why not simply call it something like #HealersHaveHadEnough if people wants to unite like minded players but still wants to keep on playing and not cost SE any of its income?

just my thoughts.
Whatever people will do is up to them.
I'm just sharing my thoughts as of why people might keep bringing things up like "just quit playing" and "vote with your money".

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Making a big deal about the semantics of the #FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE is pretty pointless. Everyone understands what's going on, even you, who is complaining about this, understands what's going on. Okay, what if the label changes? Then what? Nothing changes. Congrats you changed a label? Sounds like a pretty pointless victory. Most people don't care about being such a pedant when everyone is on the same page except those choosing to be deliberately obtuse. Calling it a strike has worked insanely well given how irrationally riled up the "branding" has gotten people. The thing you should take away from this is that you should never get into advertising, lol.

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Originally Posted by UnconfirmedCat

even you, who is complaining about this

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When did I say I was either complaining or against it?
I'm sharing my thoughts as of why others might say things.
I've commented many times in this thread of ideas, thoughts and such in support of healers.
Just that I think that maybe something could've been worded better doesn't mean I'm complaining, it's just a personal opinion.

All I'm refering to is, if people don't want others come here saying "vote with your money" and "quit playing if you're not happy", maybe shouldn't have called it something that usually entails those two things.
"Leave garbage out and it will attract flies", sorta situation.
Ofc not calling this garbage, just an example of how one action leads to another.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

When did I say I was either complaining or against it?
I'm sharing my thoughts as of why others might say things.
I've commented many times in this thread of ideas, thoughts and such in support of healers.
Just that I might something could've been worded better doesn't mean I'm complaining, it's just a personal opinion.

All I'm refering to is, if people don't want others come here saying "vote with your money" and "quit playing if you're not happy", maybe shouldn't have called it something that usually entails those two things.
Leave garbage out and it will attract flies, sorta situation.
Ofc not calling this garbage, just an example of how one action leads to another.

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Okay, fair enough. I am sorry if my response was more harsh than it should've been, but there are a lot of posts in this thread so it is easy to make the wrong assumption when so many are clearly in bad faith. I still disagree with you though that this should be anything but #FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE. ALL CAPS, STRIKE, FFXIV. It's perfect, because it's exactly what grabs people's attention and it's objectively worked based on how big this thread has gotten. I will refer to my response to you though that the people coming in and trying to play semantics games with it being called a "strike" in a video game are deliberately being obtuse. They are not looking to get real responses. It's a distraction and people should stop wasting their time catering to these people if they can't take the time understand what's clearly laid out in the very first post. Additionally, the people saying this isn't a "strike" are flat out wrong. If we're going to play the silly word game, then it would be a boycott to stop subbing to the game entirely. A strike is simply collective action to refuse to do something at its core. It doesn't have to be associated with a business losing money or anything like that. Those are things people attach to the definition because they don't know about the word in any context outside of workers striking IRL. And even if the word was strictly that, it doesn't make a difference. We use the word, and people understand IMMEDIATELY what is going on, and that's all that matters. Furthermore, it's extra amusing since classes in FFXIV are called "jobs" so refusing to play a "job" in FFXIV being a "strike" is pretty poetic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by UnconfirmedCat

it's extra amusing since classes in FFXIV are called "jobs" so refusing to play a "job" in FFXIV being a "strike" is pretty poetic.

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Haha, you know, I've never thought about that. Gave me a chuckle.
Also, apology accepted.
I understand that people are very passionate over all this and that can cloud ones better judgement in moments. So no hard feelings.
And I also know that I can be quite on point and some times even blunt when talking which can give the wrong impressions.
I'm not the best of explaining things, but I do try.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

Haha, you know, I've never thought about that. Gave me a chuckle.
Also, apology accepted.
I understand that people are very passionate over all this and that can cloud ones better judgement in moments.
And I also know that I can be quite on point and some times even blunt when talking which can give the wrong impressions from time to time.
I'm not the best of explaining things, but I do try.

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At least you're making an attempt. That's worth something in and of itself, that's what I think.

Big fan of the JP forumgoers actually having some good discourse over the topic on their related thread despite its bumpy start, unlike the pages and pages of folks arguing about how to protest or its effectiveness here.

I will try to avoid using the role for pve roulettes too, though I'll probably still use them when playing with friends

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Because we are doing this strike/protest/whatever you want to call it because our mountains of feedback has already been ignored

We are done giving feedback, they won’t read it anyway

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Just stop, my friend.

It's enough, okay? I get it. I do. But, please. It's not worth it.