We need more ways to make gold in this game.

Just dropping my two-cents. Ever since I got a few pieces of level 50 gear I have been at a net loss from even "clean" dungeon runs when considering repair costs.

Will not let this thread die bump!

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Originally Posted by Nica

It's hilariously obvious who knows basic economic principles and who doesn't when reading this thread.



For you perhaps, but I certainly would not dictate to others what and how they should enjoy this game.



Yea OK, not even remotely close. Go play Eve if you want to see how far a MMO economy can go, this is child's play in comparison.

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The point, which you clearly and completely missed, is that gil itself is not useful at all. It is only when we can use it as a means of exchange that it is something to be sought after. And, if we ALL just farmed gil all day long, there would be nothing to purchase with that gil. What drives an economy is PRODUCTION

of things. Not the inflation or deflation of the money supply. I never played Eve, I've heard good things about it, but it isn't really the same kind of MMO WoW or FFXIV is. Non applicable comparison.

You earn gil in this game by providing for the needs and wants of others. That's how an economy is supposed to be. It's that simple.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

Bait and repairs costs much more than the fish you catch at any level of fishing.

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Not true. You can vendor trash fish for profit if you fish at a high level area with a lure. It just takes hours to make 1-2k that way. Assuming you have to repair your gear, it's probably something like 600-800 gil every hour and a half, since you can't use lures for sky/dunefishing. Could probably look around and try to find better fish to catch and sell, but it's pretty moot.

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Originally Posted by Roaran

The point, which you clearly and completely missed, is that gil itself is not useful at all. It is only when we can use it as a means of exchange that it is something to be sought after.

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What? And you completely missed the point that just to play this game at all requires GIL!!! At the VERY minimum you are required to repair your gear and travel to and from La Noscea. This is assuming you don't ever use the AH and RUN everywhere.

And to all those people who say "well if we have deflation then prices must go down" wow, great observation, except repair, teleport and transport costs are FIXED!

How... are... people not getting this... so confounding.

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Originally Posted by Asiaine

Net Gil In to the system must equal Net Gil out of the system, or the system will become bankrupt.
There are many ways for Gil to leave the system (money sinks). Transport fees, taxes, buying items from NPCs.

There are only a few ways for Gil to enter the system (Quest Rewards, drops, selling to NPCs).

Over time, quest rewards diminish. Sales to an NPC are less than purchases form the NPC. Therefore, in time, all money will be gone.

Except! New players will come in (and bring gil from quests with them), but the rate of new players must equal or exceed the rate at which players leave.
Except! You can get a lot of 'gil' from Seals... This may be the new way to introduce money into the economy:
Endless supply of Seals -> Convert to Goods -> Sell to NPC -> Gil!

(not necessarily a good way, but a way none-the-less).

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This is interesting. What sells well for seals to a vendor?

Proper Economy takes time, it isn't something that happens overnight. Should have seen EVE Online's Economy when I started back in 05 :(.... now it is a real world economy.
As for making money, go grind, sell minions that you get... thats always fun. There isnt alot you need cash for in this game anyway. Most everything that you use can be made.

Ran AK today 20 times on SCH after i was done i had enough those money items you can sell to take home 32.5k for the day and only repaired my gear once. out of all those runs. You can make plenty of money

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Originally Posted by Firon

Ran AK today 20 times on SCH after i was done i had enough those money items you can sell to take home 32.5k for the day and only repaired my gear once. out of all those runs. You can make plenty of money

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Wtf? Are you serious? To vendors? This thread needs to die if thats the case.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Ran AK today 20 times on SCH after i was done i had enough those money items you can sell to take home 32.5k for the day and only repaired my gear once. out of all those runs. You can make plenty of money

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Considering the bronze pieces drop in AK are worth 100g per turn in. I am sure you brought home 325 pieces back from said dungeon.

Seems legit.

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Originally Posted by DrPancakes

Considering the bronze pieces drop in AK are worth 100g per turn in. I am sure you brought home 325 pieces back from said dungeon.

Seems legit.

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you get silvers too i had no silvers prior this morning I havent done a quest in a to lvl sch since i was 40 and that was last week been all fates since then i haven't had an silver gil item till today.

Concerned about the economy? HQ your Tradecraft Levequests, then, and do not place any craftables on Marketboard, and Chocobo to every location.

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Originally Posted by Firon

you get silvers too i had no silvers prior this morning I havent done a quest in a to lvl sch since i was 40 and that was last week been all fates since then i haven't had an silver gil item till today.

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Assuming you got all silvers. That would be 65 pieces.

Seems legit.

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Originally Posted by DrPancakes

Assuming you got all silvers. That would be 65 pieces.

Seems legit.

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I guess i got lucky you get 5-8 per chest when they pop. you can keep your ass hat sarcastic comments to your self too.

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Originally Posted by DrPancakes

Assuming you got all silvers. That would be 65 pieces.

Seems legit.

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Youd only need 10 to fix completely broken gear. It seems extremely legit. Not to mention if AK drops silver, than what would crystal tower or coils of behemoth drop? I think that with what he just said, this thread is invalid and needs to die.

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Originally Posted by Syfin

Does not know the definition of "if." And is therefore an ignorant, sarcastic d-bag.

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You presumed to form an opinion on the thread based on unlikely facts from one person. To which you have no personal experience.

The definition of ignorance.

Edit: And arrogance actually.

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Originally Posted by DrPancakes

You presumed to form an opinion on the thread based on unlikely facts from one person. To which you have no personal experience.

The definition of ignorance.

Edit: And arrogance actually.

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Its not an opinion to say that 10 would fix your gear. Learn to read man, your digging yourself into a bigger hole. Its not ignorant for me to state that IF he made 32.5k in 20 runs with only one repair bill that this thread needs to die. Its me stating the obvious and yes I did form an opinion by saying this needs to die IF that is true, but by using the word "if" I made it clear that I am forming my opinion based on his experience. There is nothing wrong with that.

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Originally Posted by DrPancakes

If this is what you think. There is nothing more to discuss.

You just blatantly admitted your own ignorance.

Forming an opinion from hearsay is just foolishness.

Have a good day

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By following your logic you are calling anyone who believes in God fools. You are a real gem.

EDIT: Sorry I went too far. But at the same time we are on a forum for opinion and to better this game. If what he said was correct than no "fix" is needed. I dont want to see hyper inflation result because of this thread.

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Originally Posted by Syfin

By following your logic you are calling anyone who believes in God fools. You are a real gem.

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Well, they are...

So a screenshot was provided for the unbelievable repair costs... but a screenshot was not provided for more unbelievable dungeon income?

I can play this game too. After running 20 fates I made over 50k Gil. See how this doesn't work?

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Originally Posted by Merix

Well, they are...

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Ooooh, I love it when people open up this can of worms~!

http://i.imgur.com/I6GSf.gif

HAHAHA I so have to laugh at this its not even funny anymore. I'm 50 and got over 300k in gil just by doing story and selling some stuff I got from quests here and there. I haven't even started Gathering or Crafting. Whats wrong with you people.

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Originally Posted by GinTama

HAHAHA I so have to laugh at this its not even funny anymore. I'm 50 and got over 300k in gil just by doing story and selling some stuff I got from quests here and there. I haven't even started Gathering or Crafting. Whats wrong with you people.

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And the moment u decide to run dungeons because u want to upgrade your gear that 300k will rapidly dwindle down. Ignorance is bliss, enjoy it while it last.

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Originally Posted by GinTama

HAHAHA I so have to laugh at this its not even funny anymore. I'm 50 and got over 300k in gil just by doing story and selling some stuff I got from quests here and there. I haven't even started Gathering or Crafting. Whats wrong with you people.

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And here we have another person who completely misses the point of the thread and clearly did not read anything beyond the title.

The entire issue revolves around the fact that, *aside from the money you get from the story*, there are not many ways to make gil at level 50, at least not enough to offset the gil sinks that are repairs, teleports, AH tax, and so on. While one person may get rich by playing the auction house and selling their wares, that money is coming from other players. Individual wealth is irrelevant and is not what is being discussed in this thread.

"b-b-but what about muh crafting and gathering???"

Unless you propose that everyone sells everything they craft or gather to the NPC for 1 gil each, then this is not a solution. Selling via the auction house just shifts money around between players, it does not introduce more money into the economy to offset the gil that is disappearing into the void through repairs/teleports/etc. In fact, every time you sell on the auction house, money is being REMOVED from the economy because of the 10% tax.

In the future, you may wish to consider actually reading the topic you're replying to.

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Originally Posted by GinTama

HAHAHA I so have to laugh at this its not even funny anymore. I'm 50 and got over 300k in gil just by doing story and selling some stuff I got from quests here and there. I haven't even started Gathering or Crafting. Whats wrong with you people.

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Do you even know what this thread is about?

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Originally Posted by Merix

Crafting/gathering classes don't generate money..

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LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

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Originally Posted by Uveck

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

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They don't. They earn money, but they don't generate it.


Well, gathering can generate, too, but they only introduce a very small amount of new gil over time.

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Originally Posted by Uveck

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

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Why do idiots like this even bother posting.

Crafting/gathering doesn't generate money. It takes money from other players (individual), but doesn't put money into the economy (entire server). You can vendor gathered items, but that is either a net loss or has a very negligible increase when taking into account the gil sinks that make gil disappear entirely from the economy.

To people who still don't understand what this thread is about:

While Gil is being generated out of nowhere (quest, FATE), Gil is also vanishing (teleporting, renting chocobo, repairing gears and using AH). Do you know that the gil you paid for teleporting isn't in the game anymore?

If the speed of Gil generated is slower than the speed it is being consumed, there will be less and less Gil in the server, and vice versa.


OP really needs to be clear about this and update the first post since there are many idiots who still don't get it.

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Originally Posted by Tari-F

They don't. They earn money, but they don't generate it.

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Ah I see what you're saying. I don't think it's an issue though. There are leves you can do on all classes. You can level up your crafts if you don't want to pay for repairs. You get new leves everyday and can use those to get more and more money. The money will never disappear from the server and if anything items will just be cheaper on the AH after sellers remember that SE removed a 0 from 1.0s economy. Increasing the amount of money in the game will only increase prices. There is enough money in circulation for players to sell items on the AH to pay for your teleports and repairs, people just choose to not craft and sell things. There are plenty of quests, job quests, side quests that give you tin-gold pieces you can sell to NPCs. Take those instead of taking the armor and make your own armor or have a friend do it for you when you provide the mats.

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Originally Posted by Capita

Why do idiots like this even bother posting.

Crafting/gathering doesn't generate money. It takes money from other players (individual), but doesn't put money into the economy (entire server). You can vendor gathered items, but that is either a net loss or has a very negligible increase when taking into account the gil sinks that make gil disappear entirely from the economy.

You obviously don't know how economics works.

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I'll be an idiot all the way to the bank. In my neck of the woods, generate also means make, like "making money." So yeah, crafting generates money FOR ME.

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Originally Posted by Uveck

I'll be an idiot all the way to the bank. In my neck of the woods, generate also means make, like "making money." So yeah, crafting generates money FOR ME.

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Yeah, there's an unfortunate amount of miscommunication and misunderstanding going on in this thread at the moment. The vague terms and lack of clarity in a lot of posts certainly don't help.


In fact, I probably should have specifically said "generate fresh/new gil" in my post, but I'm glad you understood what I meant.

My god.. there are so many economically ignorant people on this forum. And so many uncreative and lazy people. This isn't WoW. If you want instant millions, go to another MMO please.

I would imagine their overall goal is to keep prices down by not having a lot of new gil generation. If gil came easier from outside sources, that would slowly raise the overall cost of everything in the game (because everyone would have more money). I think they're trying to avoid as long as possible what happened in FF11, where prices for even simple easy things were jumping into the hundreds of thousands and for medium+ items, millions of gil. Who remembers the elemental staves when they were 20-40k and who remembers them when they were 200-500k non HQ? Whether SE did program in enough new gil wont be seen for awhile. The game hasn't been up very long at all. I understand the worry, and I'm not level 50 yet, and I don't have high level crafts, so I can't speak on that front, nor am debating your view. I'm just guessing they rather keep gil trading hands rather than adding more too fast.

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Originally Posted by Uveck

The money will never disappear from the server and if anything items will just be cheaper on the AH. There is enough money in circulation for players to sell items, pay for teleports and repairs, people just choose to not craft and sell things. There are plenty of quests, job quests, side quests that give you pieces you can sell to NPCs.

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First, you're on a Legacy world and so there is naturally more gil in circulation. New servers are a better example of this. Second, there are a number of different mechanics for removing gil and all are working very effectively; so much so in fact, that the money LEAVING the SYSTEM > money ENTERING the SYSTEM for the average person (i.e. The Economy). I understand if this is a foreign concept to you, but perhaps you should look up deflation and its Real World effect. MMO economies mimic the real world (it's why EVE/GW2 have an economist on staff iirc) and the Devs really act like a central bank/federal reserve/etc.

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Originally Posted by Uveck

I'll be an idiot all the way to the bank. In my neck of the woods, generate also means make, like "making money." So yeah, crafting generates money FOR ME.

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FYI, the money you are making is still subject to the above and eventually without a correction, enough will leave the system for you to clamor for a fix. The correction will likely go unnoticed by those who do not care for actual economics, but it will need to happen. Repairs and the like are a removal tool and the dark matter needed for the repair is no longer attainable beyond NPCs so we have a forced gil sink.

For those who think because they have money there is no issue; you are probably the same ones that say the constant undercutting on a product to the point of it costing less that the components that make it are a viable strategy and "good for the economy" aren't you? In the real world this is why jobs are exported to other countries, and products/services become inferior. Since there is no way to create an inferior service or good here in-game, eventually you will reach a point that crafters and players will be unable to fund their activities and the economy crashes on the server (though this is unlikely as I am sure SE will step in before then. As I said before it will likely go unnoticed (perhaps even unannounced) but the correction needs to happen at some point and likely sooner rather than later.

Just looked into doing Leve's. The only repeatable source of gil creation for level 50s. We hoped people in a group with a leve holder would get some reward for taking part. Nope. This means everybody can only get about 3000 gil per day through leves. I spend way more than this on repairs from combat. Eventually the economy will run out of money and people won't be able to do content since their gear will be broken and we won't be able to repair.

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Originally Posted by Matsume

You are assuming that there are more gil sinks than gil generating activities in the economy. This is an assumption because you are making conclusions based on an incomplete inventory of economic activities. THIS WHOLE THREAD IS POINTLESS SPECULATION. You clearly have no factual data.

Until you present to me a global counter that displays the sum total of gil created vs gil taken out of any given game world, you have no facts. You have no point. You are speculating and it is a rather useless activity.

Remind me why the economic balance of this game is of any concern to you?

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This was the end of the thread, in case anyone missed it. There are adults being paid to monitor the in-game economy, they are the only ones that have the tools to check on how much gil is leaving and entering the economy. They have have godlike powers to create new sources of gil generation if they need to.

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Originally Posted by HecatesLover

Just looked into doing Leve's. The only repeatable source of gil creation for level 50s. We hoped people in a group with a leve holder would get some reward for taking part. Nope. This means everybody can only get about 3000 gil per day through leves. I spend way more than this on repairs from combat. Eventually the economy will run out of money and people won't be able to do content since their gear will be broken and we won't be able to repair.

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This argument has a flaw, it counts only for the beginning of new servers, after 2-3Weeks the problem is gone.

U can get your gear repaired by a high level crafter. U only need Darkmatterl V, which u get from your Legion and can by it with Legion Coins (u get them from Fates, turning in Green Gear or from the Legion Hunting Log)
For each item repaired u pay the craftsman 50Gil - so u end up at 500Gil for a full repair. So no more 4000-6000k repairs at that point.
Optionally u can raise your crafting skills and repair your own gear.