I'm toying with you, if you haven't yet figured that out, then there is no hope for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallivis
Where is FFXIV headed in terms of sexism?
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11-13-2012, 06:54 PMAkujin
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11-13-2012, 06:55 PMTsuga
I haven't read most of the posts in this thread, so this is just a response to the OP.
As far as being mistreated in game goes, a lot of guys are just disgusting, sexist assholes, and a lot of them dont even realise it. You'll find it in most real life communities, and damn near every online community. I'm not excusing it, but I do not think that skimpy virtual clothing (making this argument is akin to making the argument that skimpy clothes lead to rape) or mildly sexist comments from the devs contribute very much to how these people think that it is permissible to treat women. I have experienced sexism playing female avatars in MMOs where my character was 16 pixels high, so I can assure you that my clothing had very little to do with it.
I can however see where some the outfits may make you uncomfortable, especially if it gets to the point where more skin = higher stats, but I really don't think that XIV is heading down that path. Pretty much all of the skimpy outfits are just there for novelty.
Basically some guys are just jerks, and it sucks that the rest of us have to live with them. If it gets to the point where it is harming your game experience I suggest blacklisting, or gm calls. -
11-13-2012, 06:55 PMKallivis<removed image due to colourful language>Quote:
Originally Posted by Akujin
The good old "oh man I'm doing really bad in this argument and this guy is so much more logical than me, I'd better pretend I'm trolling him" comment. -
11-13-2012, 06:56 PMNiqoteSorry, I would have replied earlier but I received an hour and a half forum ban for my discussion in here... nice to see the people insulting each other are not getting bans *sighs*Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallivis
Anyway, thank you for that information... I am not sure what to think about the translations we receive, there was a large problem when they did not properly translate the word 'redonomination' as half the community did not believe it was happening while the other half did... arguments ensued.
Either way, I still hold onto the ideal that chest animations = more character animations in general...after all it would be ludicrous to animate only that portion of the character well... but I suppose I am just a glass half full kind of girl. -
11-13-2012, 06:56 PMAenarion
let's just agree that topics like these is worth it for the /popcorn :D
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11-13-2012, 06:57 PMAkujin
(Decided to remove the image as well, because I dont actually want to get anyone in trouble for putting it up in the first place.)
Or in my case, sitting here with a nook on my lap catching up on reading while seeing what else I can say that will cause you to respond. You can call it however you want, regardless, you're still responding and I'm still enjoying myself. -
11-13-2012, 06:58 PMAkujin;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Aenarion
Indeed. -
11-13-2012, 07:03 PMKalliviswhat is a nookQuote:
Originally Posted by Akujin
IS THAT LIKE A BOOK? -
11-13-2012, 07:04 PMAkujin
Barnes and Noble ebook, their equviliant of an Amazon Kindle.
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/u/nook/379003208 -
11-13-2012, 07:06 PMKallivisI feel they will improve the global animations by the final release. They have enough time for it. Alpha and beta testers will complain about the animations too much lol. They'd be silly to not fix them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niqote
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11-13-2012, 07:18 PMAkujin
Alrighty then, finished a chapter, off to bed I go.
You all play nice, y'hear? -
11-13-2012, 07:42 PMJinrya-Geki
Vanity slots solves most,if not all the problems of this thread, doesn't it?
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11-13-2012, 07:44 PMValmonteugh........Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki
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11-13-2012, 07:46 PMJinrya-Geki
What's with the ugh?
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11-13-2012, 07:50 PMseuki
Rule 30.
/10char -
11-13-2012, 07:53 PMJinrya-Geki
Rule 30? I don't know this rule, I only know rule 34.
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11-13-2012, 08:52 PMNix
I'll answer the questions in the original post (I would go and read the rest of the thread too, but I'll do that slowly over a cup of hot chocolate later lol), my answers come from a female standpoint (I can't answer from a male one! haha)
- Are you concerned about female objectification?
No, I wouldn't class it as 'objectification', some women want to look more on the sexy side of things and some will want to look more demure. Personally I find myself varying from day to day, some days I'm like /omgIamsohawt and others I want to crawl into a potato sack and hope no one notices me. I will be able to do this ingame too! (though not so literally) - Some days I want to wear the coliseum armor and some days I wanna just snuggle up in an acton. We all have the choice to define how we are displayed, that is the beauty of this game.
- Are you concerned with how far the FFXIV team will go with sexism?
Not at all, SE aren't favoring men over women - hell, you can throw a guy in a skimpy outfit too! I believe they are catering to all tastes. To me, SE has always had a knack for making strong female characters in a game and in this MMO it is no different, your character is how you perceive it to be.
- Does it in any way effect your enjoyment of the game?
Not in any negative way, to be honest I'm enjoying the fact that they are broadening their horizons. I noticed in FFXI for example, the characters were very vanilla - it was hard to be 'sexy', it was hard to be demure... the characters were very vanilla (well... aside from those rdm hotpants that no one wore for the stats). There was not a lot of variation between each, even though the outward look of PCs were different, the personality/energy they gave off was very similar, it was bland in a way D:
SE has tackled this in XIV and they continue to do so, this will ruffle a few feathers though as they broach walls some deem uncomfortable, but c'est la vie! There is always something that makes someone uncomfortable (not a jab, I swear!), so toes are bound to get trodden on. It's how we deal with this that counts - Do we complain that there is something different we don't like? Or do we embrace this diversity? Personally I embrace it! I appreciate that it can make some uncomfortable though D:
- Has it ever effected how you have been treated as a female avatar?
Personally it has, a lot and this is one of the few downsides I can think of.
I'm a (happily) married woman, so you'll get the occasional guy that thinks with his ballsack and will throw offhanded comments (oftentimes infront of my husband too) and think that it's perfectly cool to do so even after being told that it's inappropriate. I can bet that if comments of that nature were said to say... his best friend's spouse or girlfriend for example he'd be nursing a broken nose, so there's kind of an anonymity/disconnect here of what's appropriate and what's not even in an online setting.
For me it's been remedied in two ways: having a polite chat and laying down some boundaries works most of the time, but for the rest of the time there's /blacklist.
It's hard to put this next part into words so I'll try to tread carefully;
It annoys me that people seem to be more receptive to a woman asking for help than a man, it makes me feel awful... guilty that so many would rush to me><;, I'm always wondering "Are they helping because they want to, because I'm a nice person?" or "Are they helping because I haz boobage?" I guess I'm pretty paranoid about it.
For the most part ingame only like LS mates know my gender and they don't know it before I join the LS, I'm pretty quiet about it for the most part unless I'm asked.
(These problems were prevalent in both XI and XIV)
I agree with how subligars can fix this problem. I have a whole bucket of shark oil...for emergencies...yeah emergencies.
Edit - Holy crapsicle, sorry for the wall of text, maybe I shouldn't type when I'm tired, it's so hard to stop! -
11-13-2012, 08:58 PMValmonte
Rule 31 applies to several posts here.
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11-13-2012, 08:58 PMValmonteI don't know vanity master you tell me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki
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11-13-2012, 09:43 PMTeuciont
I'm enjoying these tags, if nothing else.
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11-13-2012, 10:37 PMMStowastiqVahlshdehQuote:
Originally Posted by Laiferr
- Are you concerned about female objectification?
Only when there is not equal objectification applied to male chars [and other races].
- Are you concerned with how far the FFXIV team will go with sexism?
Again, sexuality/sexism is ok in my book as long as:
1. You have a choice of modest clothes/ more symmetrical or less exaggerated sexual anatomy in char model options if you choose not to use them.
Example: Boob slider should allow small to large boobs instead of only large. I prefer that access to anatomical variation sliders should be applied equally across the form of the character but I understand some will not be due to cultural, age and sales considerations.
Storyline too, because sexism might be part of the storyline it should not be required for everyone to participate in quests that might be overtly sexual, in order to complete the storyline.
An on/off sexual content button would be wonderful! While I am open to balanced sexuality in games, I think it is perfectly understandable that some others might not be and they deserve a choice to turn it off or on.
2. Excessive sexuality in char model, storyline, gear is ok to me if it is equally accessible by both, all races and genders.
- Does it in any way effect your enjoyment of the game?
Yes, I prefer it to be balanced and it does effect my game to the point of not purchasing games that are overly sexual in a hetero way without consideration to other sexual persuasions.
I am fine with non sexual/sexist content but if romance/sexuality is a significant feature of the game and that part is only applicable to one sexual orientation..the one that I do not play, I will not buy it.
For instance, Dragon Age: if it did not allow same sex couples, I would not enjoy or buy the game. It discouraged me from buying The Witcher 2 when I had previously, eagerly planned on buying it.
- Has it ever effected how you have been treated as a female avatar?
I strictly play male characters because I prefer them.. but on occasion I had female storage characters and I was treated like a female as if they immediately assumed I was female in rl or did not care. Either that or they just were attracted to the female avatar for all I know. It was like night and day, the contrast between playing one gender or the other.
I was more likely to be ooc flirted with or psyber-pitched compared to when I am playing a male character. Add more to the likelihood for mithra's/miqot'e. :P
As a female character, I was more likely to be offered help with gaming. I was more likely to be offered help with exping, get free gear, PL offered to me or assisted while soloing in a situation where it looked like I was having trouble with a mob.
Men are less competitive in game with me as far as bragging about stats and the like, when I am playing a female char and even after I let them know that I am a female playing a male character. It is harder to get help while playing a male character.
I think this is just a cultural factor that we may or may not ever evolve out of as humans in a male dominated society. -
11-13-2012, 11:55 PMHuginn
I get really tired of people getting angry when a female character or real person acts the way that they want to, if that way is politically incorrect. If a woman wants to flaunt her sexuality or looks, let her, so long as she isnt doing it toward children.
This is the same argument against prostitution, you do not want anyone to own their own body. no selling of organs, no selling of sex, no selling of work that is deemed improperly dangerous.
Let them be whatever they want to be and stop bullying them into being prudish women who are not permitted to be farther than arm's reach from a related male when in public. -
11-14-2012, 01:20 AMFF4ever
@OP
LMAO here we go again, first off if you couldnt tell the guy that asked that question was trolling your going to have a hard time on FFO. yes yoshi san got trolled lol... and at the same time it was a serious question xD, non english player base or not
players want this.... man and women.... and XI is no different as far as gear being skimpy for men and women characters....the thing is unlike XI XIV looks 50X better so character models are beautiful and more detailed... imo id like to see more. but what u see is as far as SE will go..so what female characters have bikini's in the game =/ woopty doo. this is a MIDDLE AGES setting "fantasy game" do you not know this? so you should know this doesnt have a "MODERN snob SETTING" =/ ... sexism?......... foh.....
if you want to stur up sexism make it a valid case and go and post on the disney's forums xD..... -
11-14-2012, 02:54 AMCthulhu
I just read this WHOLE thread and I don't know why.
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11-14-2012, 02:57 AMRauQuote:
Originally Posted by Cthulhu
[TBA] more months... -
11-14-2012, 03:14 AMHitoriki- Are you concerned about female objectification?Quote:
Originally Posted by Laiferr
Not really. I know this is a thing in the entire industry. I just hope SE doesnt go too far.
- Are you concerned with how far the FFXIV team will go with sexism?
Yes. The Miqo'te RSE skirts are LITERALLY 6 inches long. WTF? Shorter does not even mean more sexy. Covering half the thighs would make it just as sexy and more tasteful. The boucing boobies can be ok if they are done well. But if SE is willing to go this far now it could get worse with future gear.
- Does it in any way effect your enjoyment of the game?
A little bit I guess since I think it hurts the game's image.
- Has it ever effected how you have been treated as a female avatar?
I don't play female avatars. -
11-14-2012, 03:22 AMTheTone
I can't believe that I read this crap. Are people really whining about characters in a game? You see nothing more than what you can already see by going to the local mall or beach and who really gets off on characters in a game?
They give you options, choose a race that won't make you curl up in a corner. Sick people are everywhere, unfortunately we cannot execute them for this (until PvP) so we must live with it.
Yes, a female character is more likely to be offered help in game. A female is also more likely to get offered drinks and a place to stay for the night when they go to the bar. -
11-14-2012, 04:10 AMIngolfhttp://2.bp.blogspot.com/_AzFF_lHQoh...ngbylosing.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Akujin
lawdy -
11-14-2012, 07:14 AMMaxwellThis does not change the fact that you missused the terms sexism and objectification based on loose assumptions and stretched personal interpretations. You have failed to clearly define your point of view and how you interpret sexism and objectification, you contradict yourself at least twice and people are calling you on it. Deal with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laiferr
The more i read the original post, the more i think of this: http://www.globalmontreal.com/woman+...288/story.html
You should try some Korean games :p
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ox3n...ature=g-high-u -
11-14-2012, 07:14 AMMortechai
I read through this pile of drivel and suddenly came to the realisation that you must be a disenfranchised lesbian that got a sex change operation and live by yourself in the middle of Alaska somewhere where everything you see outside of your mirror makes you feel "uncomfortable". Furthermore you're one of those people who expect EVERYONE to change their ways/whatever to cater to your discomfort. Sure there may have been a small number of people here supporting it, but I'am also 110% sure that there's is an exponentially smaller group speaking out against this. This is the video game community, I'am quite sure that there are less than 1% of the community as a whole that gives a crap about what has your panties/tighty-wighties in a wad. Moving on, IT'S A VIRTUAL CHARACTER OCCUPYING A VIRTUAL SPACE. It isn't real. I promise. We aren't that far advanced technologically yet. I'am positive that your character doesn't feel ashamed or is aghast at an apparent lack of equality in skimpy outfits between males and females, girl/guy. That being said, there's things that can be done and gotten away with in a virtual space that wouldn't fly in reality. I'am sad to admit it, but your worries and concerns have a foothold here, in the real world, but in Eorzea.....they have no place.
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11-14-2012, 07:20 AMIngolfhttp://www.thinkgeek.com/images/prod...ce_kit_mat.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Mortechai
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11-14-2012, 07:24 AMThebard
I want more titties and beer.
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11-14-2012, 07:45 AMCedri
3 things.
1. The target audience for this entire genre (MMOs) would be what? Men ages 18-40? And what would the majority of that majority like to see more? Tig ol biddys or man packages?
2. Sexism and objectification are perceptual. Ask a woman you know that plays the game. Does she having her avatar in more or less revealing clothing? Shot in the dark, my guess is the more revealing. So there's that.
3. Gay marriage. By keeping marriage between the opposite sexes keeps the statu quo. Which since most of us are used to that will offend the least possible amount of people. Think about that "Time period" in which this game takes place also. Was gay marriage a thing way back when? Sure the romans had their share of fun but they never married their male lovers.
TLDR: Dudes like boobs and consume most of the population. Chicks and dudes alike enjoy revealing clothing. Let's keep people from "Facebook" marrying each other. -
11-14-2012, 07:51 AMCedriOh man, that had me laughing for about a good 3 minutes. I haven't read anything that stupid in a long time, thank you. Seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortechai
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11-14-2012, 08:03 AMHanemakikazeYour character portrait fits your rage very well. +1 for authenticityQuote:
Originally Posted by Mortechai
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11-14-2012, 09:44 AMMortechaiWell it's just silly posts like the OP's clogging up this forum with unnecessary concerns and worrying that really irritate the bejesus out of me. Seriously. This stuff is complete and utter nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanemakikaze
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11-14-2012, 09:49 AMMortechaiLikewise, I havn't read anything as stupid and trivial as the OP in a long time. It had me laughing for a good 3 minutes. I would thank the OP for the mirth it brought me if I didn't feel people like them were a drain on society. Seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cedri
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11-14-2012, 09:59 AMMortechai
It's people like this, trying to bring the real world into the virtual world that are doing more harm than good I feel. The primary reason I(And I'am sure a large chunk of other people) engage in virtual entertainment in the first place is for a sense of detachment from reality. To participate in a different world, to "do" things they normally wouldn't be able to otherwise. Thus, seeing someone trying to impose real world ideals and moral concerns onto a virtual space, to me, is odd and out of place. The moment a virtual space parallels reality, it's no longer a different place, but simply a copy. That sense of escape would evaporate when one realizes they're beholden to the same set of moral guidelines and expectations of the real world.
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11-14-2012, 10:56 AMLucent
MMmm... I play a male avatar even though I'm a girl but to be honest, a lot of men use a female avatar. I think the only thing that bothers me is that my male hyur is kinda dorky and can never reach the same level of "sexy" I may sometimes want to giggle at as a female hyur. For the most part, I don't feel like I HAVE to play a male character to escape the "ug" moments brought on by playing a female avatar like in so many other MMOs because of the community we've built and the game tends to attract. Women, in general, like to be pretty and sexy (for ourselves, not others), which is exaggerated in this sort of fantasy realm but ultimately, it's the people and psuedo-society of the game that makes it either fun or unbearable.
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11-14-2012, 11:07 AMCedriWell said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucent