Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

I'm sad to report that I'm level 100 and about to enter the final zone. The story still sucks. In fact, the story while more interesting than running fetch quests for Wuk Lamat, is even more poorly written than it was before. Praying this last zone gives me SOMETHING to enjoy before this expansion completely poops the bed.

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Originally Posted by SirShady

I'm sad to report that I'm level 100 and about to enter the final zone. The story still sucks. In fact, the story while more interesting than running fetch quests for Wuk Lamat, is even more poorly written than it was before. Praying this last zone gives me SOMETHING to enjoy before this expansion completely poops the bed.

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Hahahaha! The final zone actually got me to skip voiced cutscenes. The entire zone is filler, outside of the very beginning and the very end.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

It's way better in Japanese. At least it makes sense why...

she would be embarrassed about being alone in a room with the WOL instead of just being "stuffy in here."

Another of the many differences between the English and Japanese writing that I struggle to understand or justify.

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OOF.

The added context would have definitely removed the cringe at least a bit. This actually annoys me a bit now that you said it for they should have realized in such situations context is everything.

Maybe it was an oversight but still OOF.

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Originally Posted by koko-on-da-forumz

Hahahaha! The final zone actually got me to skip voiced cutscenes. The entire zone is filler, outside of the very beginning and the very end.

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That is really sad to hear... But I've come this far and I refuse to skip any cutscenes or miss any dialogue. People can crap all over me for having a negative opinion about this expansion's story but I won't let them say I didn't give it as genuine and thorough of a try as I could.

Dungeons are good. I like the dungeons.

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Originally Posted by SirShady

That is really sad to hear... But I've come this far and I refuse to skip any cutscenes or miss any dialogue. People can crap all over me for having a negative opinion about this expansion's story but I won't let them say I didn't give it as genuine and thorough of a try as I could.

Dungeons are good. I like the dungeons.

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I've skipped a few of the ones I can tell from being a long time XIV fan that were fetch quest filler. But I've watched most of them and can say as well that the story, up to 99 at least, is poorly written. I don't care about any of the characters, I don't care about the plot, I just feel empty. All the characters I loved are cardboard cutouts of themselves. They are there because the writer needed exposition and because they are expected to be. FUCK!

Idk about dungeons being good, they look nice but outside of like 3 bosses they all suck. 95s final boss, 97s second boss, and 100s last were pretty decent. Who could forget the amazing design of mirror monster who charged up his beam for 80mns.

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Originally Posted by SirShady

That is really sad to hear... But I've come this far and I refuse to skip any cutscenes or miss any dialogue. People can crap all over me for having a negative opinion about this expansion's story but I won't let them say I didn't give it as genuine and thorough of a try as I could.

Dungeons are good. I like the dungeons.

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The third and fourth "subzone" of the last zone were good though IMO. Slow but good. In a vacuum I thought they were pretty nice, but it should not have been Lv100 quests... Totally kills the pacing.

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Originally Posted by Verathel

It was bad. I do not mind her English voice actor but that scene made everything that people were saying about her and Wuk Lamat as a character come into glaring focus. Definitely cringe.

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I just had that scene and I honestly can't conceive why anyone would think that scene was good, it was painful to watch

I do not understand who thought forcing you to travel with a fem roth who has the mentality of a teenager was a good idea. There are key story points where she literally just wonders off while key plot points are left hanging.

This character is just bad writing. She has no business traveling with you as long as she does. I can name so many annoyances with this character but she is naive in ways that are hard to describe.

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Originally Posted by HighlanderClone

Not gonna spoil anything but my god. It's actually difficult to do the MSQ with such an obnoxious character.

Maybe I'll change my mind at the end... maybe... but it doesn't seem that way anymore...

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I disagree with you

Wuk: "Friends to the end! Friends to the end!"

My WoL:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ab/78...f3ae7d3bf0.jpg

tbh i really didn't like Wuk Lamat at first but she has grown on me by the mid-point of the expansion, though that friends to the end scene made me cringe

I don't hate the character, but I hate that they're the focus of the MSQ. They're not nearly an interesting enough of a character to take the spotlight away from the WoL as much as they do, or at all really. Honestly, they probably don't even deserve to be a 'main character', and would fit much better as the focus of an optional quest chain.

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Originally Posted by Tatiana

tbh i really didn't like Wuk Lamat at first but she has grown on me by the mid-point of the expansion, though that friends to the end scene made me cringe

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Honestly it made me laugh. Mostly because I saw Child's Play the other day and that's the Good Guy slogan.

If Wuk becomes a scion/MC of this new 10 year arc they've been talking about I'm dipping out for sure.

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Originally Posted by Xylira

I don't hate the character, but I hate that they're the focus of the MSQ. They're not nearly an interesting enough of a character to take the spotlight away from the WoL as much as they do, or at all really. Honestly, they probably don't even deserve to be a 'main character', and would fit much better as the focus of an optional quest chain.

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I also didn't like the huge amount of focus on her but at the same time, the expansion is almost entirely based on her. So for the story itself to be centered around and what she does kinda makes sense. Think of the other times this has happened. Estinien, Minfilia, etc were all a huge focus at one point, so for this expansion, which takes place on her island where she is supposed to take over as ruler, it is perfectly reasonable to revolve around her.

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Originally Posted by Garolymar

If Wuk becomes a scion/MC of this new 10 year arc they've been talking about I'm dipping out for sure.

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tbf you haven't been around that long anyway lol

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Originally Posted by Dubont

I also didn't like the huge amount of focus on her but at the same time, the expansion is almost entirely based on her. So for the story itself to be centered around and what she does kinda makes sense. Think of the other times this has happened. Estinien, Minfilia, etc were all a huge focus at one point, so for this expansion, which takes place on her island where she is supposed to take over as ruler, it is perfectly reasonable to revolve around her.

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Not to this degree. Estinien and Minfilia/Ryne were important characters in their respective expansions, but this expansion is THE Wuk Lamat expansion. Everything you do revolves around her. Everything everyone else talks about revolves around her. I'm going to be very shocked if the number of "speak to Wuk Lamat" quest objectives isn't well into the hundreds.

And not only that but Estinien and Minfilia were WAY more compelling as characters than Wuk Lamat. She's like a stereotypical shonen anime protag, talking about the power of friendship, how she's going to protect the people she loves, and falling flat on her face for comedy in every scene. It's embarrassing and tired. She'd be ok as a side character, she is insufferable as the centerpiece of the entire story.

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Originally Posted by SirShady

Everything you do revolves around her. Everything everyone else talks about revolves around her.

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While she plays an important role (perhaps too important for some), this is patently false. She shares the spotlight with Tural itself, its people, and its cultures.

The first part of the story is basically a giant tour guide of Tural. Making it about Wuk Lamat only is extremely superficial.

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Originally Posted by SirShady

Not to this degree. Estinien and Minfilia/Ryne were important characters in their respective expansions, but this expansion is THE Wuk Lamat expansion. Everything you do revolves around her. Everything everyone else talks about revolves around her. I'm going to be very shocked if the number of "speak to Wuk Lamat" quest objectives isn't well into the hundreds.

And not only that but Estinien and Minfilia were WAY more compelling as characters than Wuk Lamat. She's like a stereotypical shonen anime protag, talking about the power of friendship and falling flat on her face for comedy in every scene. It's embarrassing.

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Oh I'll give you the whole "friendship is power" bs is dull, cringey and severely outdated. This isn't 2004 Yugioh anymore. BUT again, this is the expansion where you're essentially helping her take over as ruler of her island where her father currently rules. We've not really encountered something quite like this in the story up to this point.

Having played past the...

inevitable mid-story twist

I can easily say, don't believe all you read on the internet. Play for yourself before you let yourself be unduly influenced. Some of the things I was reading on this forum had me worried, but I'm glad to see this is perfectly in line with most Final Fantasy games.

Now, it's obvious to me that some either played a different game from the one I'm playing, or are simply distorting reality for the sake of painting Dawntrail in an undeservedly negative light, likely because their hatred for a single character makes them lose every semblance of nuance in their judgment.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Having played past the...

inevitable mid-story twist

I can easily say, don't believe all you read on the internet. Play for yourself before you let yourself be unduly influenced. Some of the things I was reading on this forum had me worried, but I'm glad to see this is perfectly in line with most Final Fantasy games.

Now, it's obvious to me that some either played a different game from the one I'm playing, or are simply distorting reality for the sake of painting Dawntrail in an undeservedly negative light, likely because their hatred for a single character makes them lose every semblance of nuance in their judgment.

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Yes, the part where... LEVEL 87 SPOILERS!

the lizard enters an interdimensional portal that COINCIDENTALLY holds the weapons of mass destruction he needs to steal the throne because... Well because he's evil...

is the real turning point where the writing got good. Everyone that didn't think that part was a stroke of pure genius obviously is DISTORTING REALITY to not enjoy themselves.

Edit: Oh apparently I've reached the posting limit! I see your replies and will post my responses when I can!

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Originally Posted by Dubont

I also didn't like the huge amount of focus on her but at the same time, the expansion is almost entirely based on her. So for the story itself to be centered around and what she does kinda makes sense. Think of the other times this has happened. Estinien, Minfilia, etc were all a huge focus at one point, so for this expansion, which takes place on her island where she is supposed to take over as ruler, it is perfectly reasonable to revolve around her.

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And that's the issue, the expansion is centered around her. It should have been more about the looming inner turmoil of a nation with an aging ruler whose ability to govern is diminishing, and whom has no worthy successor to take their place. The WoL should be taking more of a front seat in the story to witnessing this gradual decline as the current ruler is slipping in his ability to keep charge of his kingdom. Instead the WoL is left in the shadow while an aggressively mediocre character takes center stage.

As for Estinien, Minfilia, well they're simply better written characters. And more importantly, as critical as they were to their respective expansions, they weren't constantly stealing focus away from the WoL at every turn.

She is so goddamn predictable and her '' character development '' is laughable.

Does she gain an undeserved, unexplainable power up because the rival who she formerly couldn't even lay her hands on, threatens to kill someone she cares about? Absolutely.

Does a tragic event cause her to doubt herself and get in over her head, and a pep talk from Alisaie and the WoL about '' now is not the time to sulk '' fixes everything? Absolutely.

And if you are mad that I spoiled her character development, well... that's on you, because this was the most predictable nonsense ever. Actually, let me take that back, it wasn't predictable because my expectations were higher than this, so I couldn't predict them doing something so goddamn trite. So sorry for spoiling it for you :c

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Originally Posted by Dubont

Oh I'll give you the whole "friendship is power" bs is dull, cringey and severely outdated. This isn't 2004 Yugioh anymore. BUT again, this is the expansion where you're essentially helping her take over as ruler of her island where her father currently rules. We've not really encountered something quite like this in the story up to this point.

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You're right! It isn't! Which is why it pains me to see it executed so poorly! If Wuk Lamat was a more endearing character and shared her screentime more, I'd be having a lot better time with this expansion.

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Originally Posted by SirShady

is the real turning point where the writing got good. Everyone that didn't think that part was a stroke of pure genius obviously is DISTORTING REALITY to not enjoy themselves.

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I could pull the same trick you just did for literally every Final Fantasy game ever released and for every FFXIV (and FFXI) expansion so far.

It's incredibly easy to disingenuously oversimplify a story to make it sound worse than it is, and having seen your other posts, disingenuity for the sake of supporting a false point is indeed my probable explanation.

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Originally Posted by Xylira

And that's the issue, the expansion is centered around her. It should have been more about the looming inner turmoil of a nation with an aging ruler whose ability to govern is diminishing, and whom has no worthy successor to take their place. The WoL should be taking more of a front seat in the story to witnessing this gradual decline as the current ruler is slipping in his ability to keep charge of his kingdom. Instead the WoL is left in the shadow while an aggressively mediocre character takes center stage.

As for Estinien, Minfilia, well they're simply better written characters. And more importantly, as critical as they were to their respective expansions, they weren't constantly stealing focus away from the WoL at every turn.

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That's the thing though, this is an entirely new continent that doesn't trade much with foreign lands, so the WoL isn't well known there. WoL isn't the huge hero that everyone bows down to as soon as they walk in the room. Lamat, however, IS well known, well liked and many people of the island view her as their future ruler. So SHE DOES have the spotlight. The expansion isn't about WoL. It's about Lamat. We just make sure things go well. We are not a "hero" here. We are "strong friends."

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Originally Posted by Puremallace

I do not understand who thought forcing you to travel with a fem roth who has the mentality of a teenager was a good idea. There are key story points where she literally just wonders off while key plot points are left hanging.

This character is just bad writing. She has no business traveling with you as long as she does. I can name so many annoyances with this character but she is naive in ways that are hard to describe.

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Lyse at least knew to back off from the story on occasion to let other characters have the spotlight.
Wuk Lamat is the only one who can actually get things done, in-universe. Which just shows that the writers were more focused on writing their story than writing a game's story. That's one thing that Ishikawa does better than any other writer I've seen, and I'd attribute that as the biggest reason Shadowbringers and Endwalker are so beloved.
My character doesn't feel like my own any more. If I could actually control him, I'd have left Wuk Lamat to go help Koana with his development.
That could have actually been interesting, if you play both sides of the conflict. Only there to see the world, and it's wonders.

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Originally Posted by SirShady

Yes, the part where...

the lizard enters an interdimensional portal that COINCIDENTLY holds the weapons of mass destruction he needs to steal the throne because... Well because he's evil...

is the real turning point where the writing got good. Everyone that didn't think that part was a stroke of pure genius obviously is DISTORTING REALITY to not enjoy themselves.

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To be fair,

Zoraal does know the Golden City holds immense power to shape reality, as Sareel tells him much earlier. He's also certainly just aware of the potential given the lengths his father went to to seal off the Golden City, and the stories from the giants. So it's not exactly coincidental. Sphene also did say the tech was adapted to war after their agreement, so it's not like the death army was sitting there entirely. We're told many times there was a huge shift in production of war machines, and the 8-man raid was closed off to fuel Zoraal's war efforts. Plus it's been 30 years, that's a long time in a technologically advanced society.

As for him doing it because he's evil, we're shown he's got major daddy issues and a severe inferiority complex, which is only exacerbated when our team succeeds after he fails. Plus he has an... admittedly very stupid "peace for everyone by making everyone suffer" view on global politics. I do wish they went into where he got that idea beyond "well Tural was suffering from war, and then Dad stopped it, and now people are happy.. so 'War -> not war -> happiness'!" It's very dumb. They could have spent some time going into it but... they didn't. They might in the future but that doesn't solve the issue now.

Then yeah at the end his motivation, probably after 30 years of stewing in his own emotions, shifted to feeling like his father screwed him out of inheritance. Which is a pretty major shift to happen off-screen.

Edit - It's Sareel Ja, not Seraal Ja.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

That's the thing though, this is an entirely new continent that doesn't trade much with foreign lands, so the WoL isn't well known there. WoL isn't the huge hero that everyone bows down to as soon as they walk in the room. Lamat, however, IS well known, well liked and many people of the island view her as their future ruler. So SHE DOES have the spotlight. The expansion isn't about WoL. It's about Lamat. We just make sure things go well. We are not a "hero" here. We are "strong friends."

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Yeah but for a game where we play as the WoL it's makes for a extremely grating play experiance and the friendship is extremely forced and as this and a lot of places show a lot of people do not find her likeable

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Having played past the...

inevitable mid-story twist

-snip-

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You're free to enjoy what you enjoy, but, like. Redoing Shadowbringers a third time, hinging the entire emotional impact of the plot on a character we just met a second ago SEVERAL TIMES, grinding the story to a halt to walk through the garden with an old lady for about four hours are not hallmarks of strong writing.

I like Wuk Lamat. The story was garbage before the twist and it was a different colour garbage after the twist.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

That's the thing though, this is an entirely new continent that doesn't trade much with foreign lands, so the WoL isn't well known there. WoL isn't the huge hero that everyone bows down to as soon as they walk in the room. Lamat, however, IS well known, well liked and many people of the island view her as their future ruler. So SHE DOES have the spotlight. The expansion isn't about WoL. It's about Lamat. We just make sure things go well. We are not a "hero" here. We are "strong friends."

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Then maybe they should've put Wuk Lamat front and center in all the advertisement.

Turns out, when you make the player character completely irrelevant, and don't let them form connections beyond one annoying turd of a lion lady, you can't really get invested about anything in the story because everything revolves around one (bad) character that isn't you. Imagine that.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

Yeah but for a game where we play as the WoL it's makes for a extremely grating play experiance and the friendship is extremely forced and as this and a lot of places show a lot of people do not find her likeable

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I mean yeah she's cringey and all that, but also, this is HER expansion. Of course it's about her. Yes we play as the WoL but what world are we trying to save? We defeated literal gods. We defeated Zodiark. We defeated Zenos and the entire Garlean empire. There's no more world ending chaos going on that we have to stop (for now). So, despite being a huge powerful hero, we are not in a place where we are well known and are not needed to be such a hero at this time. It's actually a little refreshing after 14 years of being the main hero to finally sit back and be the super over powered sidekick for the story.

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Originally Posted by Swad

The elderly 40 year old with many posts has spoken, FFXIV is saved.

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I mean, the story sucked ass no 40 year old could tell you that listen to the youth too.

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Originally Posted by Tehmon

Then maybe they should've put Wuk Lamat front and center in all the advertisement.

Turns out, when you make the player character completely irrelevant, and don't let them form connections beyond one annoying turd of a lion lady, you can't really get invested about anything in the story because everything revolves around one (bad) character that isn't you. Imagine that.

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and yet we are not irrelevant. Many of the story events could not and would not have happened had we not been there. We are VERY relevant, we just aren't the focus. Think Pokemon. Ash wouldn't be able to do half of what he does if he didnt' have some OP Pikachu at his side. Yet...Ash is the focus of the story.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

I mean yeah she's cringey and all that, but also, this is HER expansion. Of course it's about her. Yes we play as the WoL but what world are we trying to save? We defeated literal gods. We defeated Zodiark. We defeated Zenos and the entire Garlean empire. There's no more world ending chaos going on that we have to stop (for now). So, despite being a huge powerful hero, we are not in a place where we are well known and are not needed to be such a hero at this time. It's actually a little refreshing after 14 years of being the main hero to finally sit back and be the super over powered sidekick for the story.

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But why make her so utterally terrible and unpleasant to be around why build an entier expanstion around an outright bad character it's just not fun I paid money for this it should be good not outright bad

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Originally Posted by Dubont

this is HER expansion..

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Bro, are you listening to yourself right now? Never before has an expansion focused on ONE character to the detriment of ALL others. Not HW, not SB, never. This is unprecedented.

If I had known this was going to be "The Lukewarm Adventures of Wut Lamat (and her ever faithful cheer squad - featuring the Warrior of Light from the award winning MMORPG Final Fantasy Online)" I would never have pre-ordered. The CGI teaser trailer frankly feels like false advertisement at this point.

EDIT: You know what? It's NOT her expansion. It is mine. I PAID for it. I should get to have FUN. Not spend the whole time propping up whatever intern they got to write this favorite OC (do not steal). I want off this ride.

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Originally Posted by Tethan

Bro, are you listening to yourself right now? Never before has an expansion focused on ONE character to the detriment of ALL others. Not HW, not SB, never. This is unprecedented.

If I had known this was going to be "The Lukewarm Adventures of Wut Lamat (and her ever faithful cheer squad - featuring the Warrior of Light from the award winning MMORPG Final Fantasy Online)" I would never have pre-ordered. The CGI teaser trailer frankly feels like false advertisement at this point.

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Is Wuk even in the trailer?

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Originally Posted by koko-on-da-forumz

You're free to enjoy what you enjoy, but, like. Redoing Shadowbringers a third time, hinging the entire emotional impact of the plot on a character we just met a second ago SEVERAL TIMES, grinding the story to a halt to walk through the garden with an old lady for about four hours are not hallmarks of strong writing.

I like Wuk Lamat. The story was garbage before the twist and it was a different colour garbage after the twist.

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Likewise, you're free to hate what you hate, but I tend not to give much credence to people who use extreme terms like "garbage." Hyperbole has never been very suitable to make valid points.

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Originally Posted by Tethan

Bro, are you listening to yourself right now? Never before has an expansion focused on ONE character to the detriment of ALL others. Not HW, not SB, never. This is unprecedented.

If I had known this was going to be "The Lukewarm Adventures of Wut Lamat (and her ever faithful cheer squad - featuring the Warrior of Light from the award winning MMORPG Final Fantasy Online)" I would never have pre-ordered. The CGI teaser trailer frankly feels like false advertisement at this point.

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It makes it so much more ironic how they chose Erenvile, WoL and G’raha of all people for 3 buildings promo in LA