Alliance Raid Now iLvl Locked, Why??

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

It is a fix for lower levels, any level 70 crafted gear would take the person in that situation over the requirement. Any Artifact gear would as well, so the only requirement for level 100 characters in Dawntrail is they need to have at least the free artifact gear.

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not quite. You can’t access artifact gear if you haven’t reached the end of MSQ.

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Even then, the required gear level is for the first alliance raid at that level, so there would be no requirement on level 100 till the new alliance raid comes out in 7.1 and long after crafted has dropped off and more gear above the required level has dropped from dungeons.

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We will see but atm it is based solely on job level. Also it doesn’t solve the issue of people who will reach lvl 100 but haven’t finished MSQ and can’t access artifact gear. I do a lot of pvp and over level very fast. The first tier of crafted gear is also always very expensive for a long while after the first raid is released.

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None of this gear is hard to get and you should be gearing as you go anyway.

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I shouldn’t need lvl 90 gear to do lvl 60 something content. There’s no point to it and it gets synched down in instanced content. Part of the fun is also to use the gear that gets unlocked as you progress. You are just trying to defend a very poor implementation of the new gear requirements for ARs.

It’s kind of absurd that I can’t queue for ARs on a lvl 90 character in iLvl 530 that has all lvl 80 and below ARs unlocked but hasn’t done EW (I made that character to PVP and run Deep Dungeons with friends) but I can pick up a lvl 50 SAM and run CT ad nauseam.

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Originally Posted by Toutatis

not quite. You can’t access artifact gear if you haven’t reached the end of MSQ.

We will see but atm it is based solely on job level. Also it doesn’t solve the issue of people who will reach lvl 100 but haven’t finished MSQ and can’t access artifact gear. I do a lot of pvp and over level very fast. The first tier of crafted gear is also always very expensive for a long while after the first raid is released.

I shouldn’t need lvl 90 gear to do lvl 60 something content. There’s no point to it. Part of the fun is also to use the gear that gets unlocked as you progress. You are just trying to defend a very poor implementation of the new gear requirements for ARs.

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There is going to be no requirement at 100 until an alliance raid comes out in 7.1. Until then it's going to stay at 565 same as 90.
And you shouldn't be trying to force doing level 60 content at 90 anyway, that's the entire point of it. You're just upset that your favorite chese strat to force easy duties at the cost of 4 hour long queues for nier is gone.
None of these requirements are hard to fulfil, and the people who overlevel significantly from where they are in the MSQ is a strange but rare phenomenon being blown out of porportion on the forums and on reddit like it's a common occurence. Marketboard gear is cheap and easily satisfies the requirements right now.

You know what was a way more common occurence? having multiple hour long queues to do the Ivalice and Nier raids because everyone would abuse the system to not fill them out with their roulettes.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

And you shouldn't be trying to force doing level 60 content at 90 anyway, that's the entire point of it. You're just upset that your favorite chese strat to force easy duties at the cost of 4 hour long queues for nier is gone. None of these requirements are hard to fulfil, and the people who overlevel significantly from where they are in the MSQ is a strange but rare phenomenon being blown out of porportion on the forums and on reddit like it's a common occurence. Marketboard gear is cheap and easily satisfies the requirements right now.

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I never levelled cheesed anything so stop making baseless assumptions. On the contrary, and as edited above I have all raids unlocked save the EW raids which I can’t access anyway on a lvl 90 char (plus I already have 3 chars with all jobs at 90 and everything unlocked but that char was made to play on a new EU server with friends. And over levelling is very common. It’s even impossible to avoid nowadays, in particular on the new servers. Also some people spend a lot of time pvping and doing content other than MSQ which levels you pretty fast. Marketboard gear will not be cheap for a long while after 7.0. Requiring useless MB gear is poor implementation.

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Originally Posted by Toutatis

not quite. You can’t access artifact gear if you haven’t reached the end of MSQ.

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Currently replaying the story, and this is incorrect, except for Shadowbringers and Endwalker where artifact gear is tied to story progression.

The level 50, 60, and 70 artifact gear are all quest rewards for completing the capstone quest. The only block is some quests might require you to go to zones you haven't yet reached.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

Currently replaying the story, and this is incorrect, except for Shadowbringers and Endwalker where artifact gear is tied to story progression.

The level 50, 60, and 70 artifact gear are all quest rewards for completing the capstone quest. The only block is some quests might require you to go to zones you haven't yet reached.

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you are correct on Idyllshire though that is still quite far in the expansion. For Stormblood, well you have to complete the last quest of the expansion called Stormblood to get iLvl 400 gear. You can’t access it as soon as you get to Raghl’s Reach or even Kugane unless it’s a very recent change (did it again at the beginning of this year).

Anyway, it’s not the best route but if they are going to start tying things strictly on job level without regard for story progress they may as well add the tome gear to a vendor in the 3 main cities.

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Originally Posted by Toutatis

you are correct on Idyllshire though that is still quite far in the expansion. For Stormblood, well you have to complete the last quest of the expansion called Stormblood to get iLvl 400 gear. You can’t access it as soon as you get to Raghl’s Reach or even Kugane unless it’s a very recent change (did it again at the beginning of this year).

Anyway, it’s not the best route but if they are going to start tying things strictly on job level without regard for story progress they may as well add the tome gear to a vendor in the 3 main cities.

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He's talking about the gear you get from doing your job story quests.. not the poetic gear

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Originally Posted by Toutatis

you are correct on Idyllshire though that is still quite far in the expansion. For Stormblood, well you have to complete the last quest of the expansion called Stormblood to get iLvl 400 gear. You can’t access it as soon as you get to Raghl’s Reach or even Kugane unless it’s a very recent change (did it again at the beginning of this year).

Anyway, it’s not the best route but if they are going to start tying things strictly on job level without regard for story progress they may as well add the tome gear to a vendor in the 3 main cities.

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The tomestone gear is different from the artifact gear, so maybe mistyped? Artifact gear is the job-specific gear you used to get from the capstone job quest for the expansion, until Shadowbringers when they added in role quests instead. Level 60 black mage gear only needs you to be able to access Western Coerthas, but I think some of the other jobs need you to be able to get to other zones, like dark knight I think needs you to be able to get to Churning Mists.

But correct about the story. Even though you can access Idyllshire before the final quest of the base expansion, the vendor isn't selling things till then. Same with Revenant's Toll. You can ride there on a chocobo right from the start of the game, but they won't sell you anything even if you could get poetics.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

The tomestone gear is different from the artifact gear, so maybe mistyped? Artifact gear is the job-specific gear you used to get from the capstone job quest for the expansion, until Shadowbringers when they added in role quests instead. Level 60 black mage gear only needs you to be able to access Western Coerthas, but I think some of the other jobs need you to be able to get to other zones, like dark knight I think needs you to be able to get to Churning Mists.

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Yup, I was talking about tome gear as I was more thinking about the higher lvl gear. Also for Stormblood gear the job gear is iLvl 290 while the requirement for the lvl 70 AR is 305.

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Originally Posted by Toutatis

Yup, I was talking about tome gear as I was more thinking about the higher lvl gear. Also for Stormblood gear the job gear is iLvl 290 while the requirement for the lvl 70 AR is 305.

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Right, though even with 290 on your left side, it's not hard from there to get to 305

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Originally Posted by Toutatis

not quite. You can’t access artifact gear if you haven’t reached the end of MSQ.

We will see but atm it is based solely on job level. Also it doesn’t solve the issue of people who will reach lvl 100 but haven’t finished MSQ and can’t access artifact gear. I do a lot of pvp and over level very fast. The first tier of crafted gear is also always very expensive for a long while after the first raid is released.

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People like yourself saying that you pvp, seriously makes me wish SE continued with giving useful pvp gear as a nice alternative for upgrading your characters while you're leveling. The pvp gear with attributes goes as far as lv.60 and everything else they added afterwards were just lv.1 cosmetic sets. If they continued by introducing lv.70/80/90 sets that you purchase from Wolf Marks in PvP, that would incentivize newer players to seek out pvp in order to get the equipment they need for the required Alliance Roulette ilv.

And honestly that would help solve that issue by presenting rewards on an extra piece of content.

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Originally Posted by Toutatis

not quite. You can’t access artifact gear if you haven’t reached the end of MSQ.

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not necessarily true for HW and StB or ShB. YOur relic armor comes from your job quest and not all job quests end in the final zone in StB. But also, you can get the centurio seal armor, and full set doesn't take alot seals. It hink I spent maybe 2 hours farming marks to get enough seals to 2 full sets.

The system is now the way it is because ilvl cheese happened as well and people who were doing the other raids had to wait and wait for the queue to pop. While I wished they moved CT to MSQ roulette they didn't, and this is what have. But just wanted to say there are pther ways to get armor without the use of poetics or the MB.

Also rewards have been adjusted so you get more if you get up in HW, StB.

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Originally Posted by MsMisato

The system is now the way it is because ilvl cheese happened as well and people who were doing the other raids had to wait and wait for the queue to pop.

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That doesn't mean it shouldn't be improved. If there's a better solution that accommodates everyone and doesn't have any downsides, why insist on telling players to use the Marketboard to buy gear, instead of asking SE to update the current solution?

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

That doesn't mean it shouldn't be improved. If there's a better solution that accommodates everyone and doesn't have any downsides, why insist on telling players to use the Marketboard to buy gear, instead of asking SE to update the current solution?

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no where in my reply did I "insist on using the MB". Cherry pick all you want but that is why AR is the way it is. Sure there can be improvements and honestly like i also in previously replay as well i wished they move CT to MSQ Roulette because honestly that where it belongs at this point.

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Originally Posted by MsMisato

no where in my reply did I "insist on using the MB". Cherry pick all you want but that is why AR is the way it is. Sure there can be improvements and honestly like i also in previously replay as well i wished they move CT to MSQ Roulette because honestly that where it belongs at this point.

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I cherry picked that, because that's all I was responding to. I had no comment on any other part of your post.

Take a look at several posters throughout this thread all saying we can buy the gear.

Yourself even stated earlier

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Originally Posted by MsMisato

YOur relic armor comes from your job quest and not all job quests end in the final zone in StB. But also, you can get the centurio seal armor, and full set...

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Everyone here is proposing workarounds to get around the current ilvl lock in AR. We're already aware of that, we don't need to be told over and over ad nauseum.

The implementation of the ilvl lock, good as it may be in sentiment, was poorly thought out and could be improved. Yet anytime I ask why the pushback to just having it improved, all I see are arguments about how I can overgear compared to my MSQ progress, but no reasoning why improving the solution might be a bad idea.

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Originally Posted by MsMisato

not necessarily true for HW and StB or ShB. YOur relic armor comes from your job quest and not all job quests end in the final zone in StB. But also, you can get the centurio seal armor, and full set doesn't take alot seals. It hink I spent maybe 2 hours farming marks to get enough seals to 2 full sets.

The system is now the way it is because ilvl cheese happened as well and people who were doing the other raids had to wait and wait for the queue to pop. While I wished they moved CT to MSQ roulette they didn't, and this is what have. But just wanted to say there are pther ways to get armor without the use of poetics or the MB.

Also rewards have been adjusted so you get more if you get up in HW, StB.

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Can’t buy lvl 90 gear with centurio seals. The thing is that both the raids and the armor are locked behind MSQ progress (including the nut armor). People who can’t unlock the raids can’t get them from the roulette even if they were in full MB pentamelded Diachonos. It doesn’t affect the queue if a lvl 90 who has not completed EW queues in iLvl530 as the highest available raids for unlock are the Nier raids and iLvl 530 is already more than you need for those. SE has been sloppy by not adding an MSQ check and they better fix it before 7.0 because it’s going to get worse as early crafted gear will sell for millions.

Anyway, the CT problem isn’t tied so much to iLvl cheese but people not unlocking ARs beyond CT. When xbox players join in, buy story skips or rush MSQ to get to end game, we’re going to see CT even more often. SE should make AR unlock quests more visible and obvious and provide serious incentives to unlock them and not just in the form of tomes as there comes a point where they are of no use. Between a 10-15 minute CT and a 45+ minute Nier raid, the choice can be very easy for many ppl.

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

The implementation of the ilvl lock, good as it may be in sentiment, was poorly thought out and could be improved. Yet anytime I ask why the pushback to just having it improved, all I see are arguments about how I can overgear compared to my MSQ progress, but no reasoning why improving the solution might be a bad idea.

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Perfect thread summary.

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

The implementation of the ilvl lock, good as it may be in sentiment, was poorly thought out and could be improved. Yet anytime I ask why the pushback to just having it improved, all I see are arguments about how I can overgear compared to my MSQ progress, but no reasoning why improving the solution might be a bad idea.

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What you consider an improvement may not be an improvement to others.

At the same time what they consider a simple solution, you reject.

Players have different opinions.

I had mentioned earlier why your suggestion could create a new problem depending on what filters SE could implement for the roulette queue system. It may not be an issue of whether your idea is good or bad but whether it's one that SE could implement that would fix the current problem without creating new ones.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

It may not be an issue of whether your idea is good or bad but whether it's one that SE could implement that would fix the current problem without creating new ones.

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And I also mentioned in a previous post that I'm open to that possibility. It's not my job to propose the best solution to SE, I'm not an FFXIV solutions architect or developer. I'm reporting a legitimate problem and asking them to acknowledge it and fix it, or at least explain why it has to be this way and no other way works.

But until that happens, I'm not going to allow obtuse players to talk me down by constantly offering the same "solution", and will shoot them down at every turn.

If anyone in this thread is willing to provide a downside to additional conditional checks regarding current MSQ progress and the pool of unlocked raids for the player, and explain what problems it could cause, I'm willing to listen. I'm open to potentially not having thought of all the possibilities.

But nobody's done that yet. All they've done is tell me to go overgear and everything is fine as it is. That's not a solution.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

What you consider an improvement may not be an improvement to others.

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In general yes, however making a roulette work as you'd expect and in a consistent manner with every other roulette is not creating another problem. If it is somehow creating a problem, not a single person has pointed to that problem.

Discussion and constructive criticism are welcome, especially in this thread pointing out how a quick and poorly thought out fix has created problems. Stubbornly refusing to acknowledge that there are any alternatives to an existing solution at all, even potentially, is not being constructive and it's extremely puzzling to see such behavior.

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

That doesn't mean it shouldn't be improved. If there's a better solution that accommodates everyone and doesn't have any downsides, why insist on telling players to use the Marketboard to buy gear, instead of asking SE to update the current solution?

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Because the marketboard is a simple solution to an issue that affects very few people.
When people have an issue with Eureka, they are told to buy the gear off the MB, when people have issues getting DR parties for Bozja, they are told to buy the essences off the MB.
Level 70/80 gear is not expensive in the slightest and is trivial for anyone with a leveled crafter to make. Even level 90 classical crafted is under 1 million gil for a full set which will get you over the 565 requirement.

It's very curious how immediately after their method of abusing the system got patched out, there's all these threads popping up about how we need to suddenly undo it.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

It's very curious how immediately after their method of abusing the system got patched out, there's all these threads popping up about how we need to suddenly undo it.

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Then show us. Show us where someone is asking to go back to how things were before.

What is actually happening is that people are complaining about a poorly implemented solution and offering suggestions to fix it. If you want to pretend that people are asking for something else, that's on you. It's been explained over and over, and there are even posts showing that the flaw in SE's solution was visible before it was introduced. I can understanding people misinterpreting things, but what is being asked for is so clear that I have hard time believing that anything but willful ignorance is at play.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

It's very curious how immediately after their method of abusing the system got patched out

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Don't make sweeping statements like that as if you know why I'm suddenly posting.

I'm posting suddenly, because until the patch, CT was nothing but an annoyance to me. It was the playerbase throwing out half-baked solutions at the devs, asking them to implement them without thinking ahead at who they might impact in the process. I never had any reason to post on the forums until now.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

there's all these threads popping up about how we need to suddenly undo it.

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Except I don't want it undone, I want it to be improved. Which you'd know, if you read anything I've said throughout this thread. As does everyone else who is in favour here.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

When people have an issue with Eureka, they are told to buy the gear off the MB, when people have issues getting DR parties for Bozja, they are told to buy the essences off the MB.

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Eureka and Bozja have absolutely no relevance here, this is purely a strawman argument. What exactly changed for Eureka and Bozja?

The Alliance Roulette used to work for everyone, and now it doesn't work for a subset of the playerbase, simple as that.

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Originally Posted by PyurBlue

Then show us. Show us where someone is asking to go back to how things were before.

What is actually happening is that people are complaining about a poorly implemented solution and offering suggestions to fix it. If you want to pretend that people are asking for something else, that's on you. It's been explained over and over, and there are even posts showing that the flaw in SE's solution was visible before it was introduced. I can understanding people misinterpreting things, but what is being asked for is so clear that I have hard time believing that anything but willful ignorance is at play.

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No U!


They should just have it where the ilv requirement for queuing into the raid depends on msq progress where its at its highest once youre in current game.

But then youll start hearing people saying that we'll have players purposefully not even advance the story to just get CT which honestly that will be extremely hilarious if that ever becomes a thing.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

No U!


They should just have it where the ilv requirement for queuing into the raid depends on msq progress where its at its highest once youre in current game.

But then youll start hearing people saying that we'll have players purposefully not even advance the story to just get CT which honestly that will be extremely hilarious if that ever becomes a thing.

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I don't follow. You want to block everyone out from AR entirely until they're at current expansion? What's the point of AR, XP leveling, Poetics and such then? Might as well remove the roulette entirely and people can queue the 24man raids directly then.

Unless I misunderstood your post?

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

I don't follow. You want to block everyone out from AR entirely until they're at current expansion? What's the point of AR, XP leveling, Poetics and such then? Might as well remove the roulette entirely and people can queue the 24man raids directly then.

Unless I misunderstood your post?

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Yes you did misunderstand. I suggest you calm the heck down my darling.

Anyway what I mean was them to make the alliance raid roulette requirement be dynamic based on the player's msq progress. Where depending on where you are at, it'll demand you to have the ilv requiremnt based on the previous expansion's max ilv. You cant ilv cheese it because it'll lock you out from queuing if you try to lower it for the early expansion raids but it wont bar you out from participating any of the ones you've unlocked by demanding you to have an ilv based on your intended current level.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Yes you did misunderstand. I suggest you calm the heck down my darling.

Anyway what I mean was them to make the alliance raid roulette requirement be dynamic based on the player's msq progress. Where depending on where you are at, it'll demand you to have the ilv requiremnt based on the previous expansion's max ilv. You cant ilv cheese it because it'll lock you out from queuing if you try to lower it for the early expansion raids but it wont bar you out from participating any of the ones you've unlocked by demanding you to have an ilv based on your intended current level.

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Oh! My apologies. Then yes, that's what I'm asking for as well.

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

Eureka and Bozja have absolutely no relevance here, this is purely a strawman argument. What exactly changed for Eureka and Bozja?

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Says who? Says you because it hurts your argument?
Doesn't work that way. This affects a small minority of players who are overleveled for their MSQ progress. THere are solutions to this that are cheap and easy like using other jobs, gearing from the marketboard for cheap, asking friends to craft them gear. All taht don't involve dismantling or neutering a system that has done some real good in improving the queue times for the later alliance raids.
When I had issues with both Eureka and Bozja I was told to go buy the gear off the Marketboard instead of having a solution pushed through Square to fix things for a small number of people. The same applies here.

Use a different job, buy the gear off the marketboard, ask a friend or someone out of NN to make you the gear.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Says who? Says you because it hurts your argument?
Doesn't work that way. This affects a small minority of players who are overleveled for their MSQ progress. THere are solutions to this that are cheap and easy like using other jobs, gearing from the marketboard for cheap, asking friends to craft them gear. All taht don't involve dismantling or neutering a system that has done some real good in improving the queue times for the later alliance raids.
When I had issues with both Eureka and Bozja I was told to go buy the gear off the Marketboard instead of having a solution pushed through Square to fix things for a small number of people. The same applies here.

Use a different job, buy the gear off the marketboard, ask a friend or someone out of NN to make you the gear.

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No, because it's completely irrelevant to the argument.

Eureka and Bozja are not related to the Duty Roulette, they're content that's always been done by fewer players, they haven't been altered in any way whatsoever. They are objectively completely unrelated to the argument being presented.

And I farmed Eureka and I'm currently farming Zadnor right now and have never complained about either of them. They're miserable experiences but that's what they were always designed to be.

And who said anything about dismantling or neutering any system whatsoever? Where did you read that? We're asking for the current system to be improved, made better, to accommodate those people that are being punished.

Additional Thoughts: If you have some argument, proposal to improve Bozja and Eureka, maybe start a thread on it, and if it's good, I'll support it.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Says who? Says you because it hurts your argument?
Doesn't work that way. This affects a small minority of players who are overleveled for their MSQ progress. THere are solutions to this that are cheap and easy like using other jobs, gearing from the marketboard for cheap, asking friends to craft them gear. All taht don't involve dismantling or neutering a system that has done some real good in improving the queue times for the later alliance raids.
When I had issues with both Eureka and Bozja I was told to go buy the gear off the Marketboard instead of having a solution pushed through Square to fix things for a small number of people. The same applies here.

Use a different job, buy the gear off the marketboard, ask a friend or someone out of NN to make you the gear.

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It really isn't that hard to out level the story especially if you ended up on a preferred world, they should have tied this to MSQ progression or made further expansion tomestone gear available at the Rowena vendors so you have a non-market board way to get the ilvl. Just a small bit bit of evidence I have a level 80 alt that just be beat Thordan. All I did was do my daily roulette and Frontline on him while doing the story rather slowly.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

No U!


They should just have it where the ilv requirement for queuing into the raid depends on msq progress where its at its highest once youre in current game.

But then youll start hearing people saying that we'll have players purposefully not even advance the story to just get CT which honestly that will be extremely hilarious if that ever becomes a thing.

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I'm not sure how to respond. You just did exactly what I said I was trying to do, ie suggest an improvement to the situation.

It's not what I would consider ideal, which would be splitting the AR roulette, but at least checking against MSQ avoids the problem SE just created, so I'd support it over what we have now.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Says who?

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It's common sense isn't it? The ilvl problem in the Alliance Raid exists regardless of other content. You can't point to something unrelated and expect to build an argument around it because those unrelated issues change nothing about what is being discussed here. The existence of problem A does not make problem B acceptable.

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This affects a small minority of players

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Assumed without numbers because it supports your argument.
A wants of a minority group do not need to oppose those of the majority.
You're also assuming that there is a majority rather than a plurality.

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THere are solutions to this that are cheap and easy like using other jobs, gearing from the marketboard for cheap, asking friends to craft them gear.

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All debatable and situational, as has been explained. But more than that, all of these are needless complications. They are bothersome and inconsistent with the rest of the game, naturally this creates a demand for a fix.

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All taht don't involve dismantling or neutering a system that has done some real good in improving the queue times for the later alliance raids.

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Assumed without numbers because it supports your argument.
We don't have the sample size to see any effect yet.
We're at a point in the expansion cycle where the AR is biased toward the endgame instead of CT.
While some have been casually noting the results of the AR roulette post patch, I don't think I've seen anyone with a control list to compare the pre patch results, allowing for bias to run rampant in comparisons.

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When I had issues with both Eureka and Bozja I was told to go buy the gear off the Marketboard instead of having a solution pushed through Square to fix things for a small number of people. The same applies here.

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You're right the same does apply here. We should not have to use workarounds when the root problem can be fixed. I have the same stance in both cases.

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Use a different job, buy the gear off the marketboard, ask a friend or someone out of NN to make you the gear.

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Or let SE know they messed up and give them suggestions on how to fix things to make the game better for everyone. That's what the forum is for. I know which I prefer, but you can do what works for you.

The ilvl cheesing was not even a common occurence in comparison to people simply only having CT unlocked as its the only MSQ required raid, not to mention the lowest level one, just as sastasha is incredibly common in levelling roulette for being both the lowest level dungeon and the first msq required dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Luluya

The ilvl cheesing was not even a common occurence in comparison to people simply only having CT unlocked as its the only MSQ required raid, not to mention the lowest level one, just as sastasha is incredibly common in levelling roulette for being both the lowest level dungeon and the first msq required dungeon.

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Maybe on your data center. I would often see people magically gain HP at the start of CT, and the amount of times I've gotten it since the change has been drastically lower. Clearly it fixed something.

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Originally Posted by Luluya

The ilvl cheesing was not even a common occurence in comparison to people simply only having CT unlocked as its the only MSQ required raid, not to mention the lowest level one, just as sastasha is incredibly common in levelling roulette for being both the lowest level dungeon and the first msq required dungeon.

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Did people decide to suddenly unlock all the other raids just as the item level restriction was added? I don't think so. The noticeable change in raid pops is a result of cheesers vanishing overnight.

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Originally Posted by Luluya

The ilvl cheesing was not even a common occurence in comparison to people simply only having CT unlocked as its the only MSQ required raid, not to mention the lowest level one, just as sastasha is incredibly common in levelling roulette for being both the lowest level dungeon and the first msq required dungeon.

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most people has atleast one more 70 (for memes) and 80 (for erp glam) unlocked, its really rare, when players got only one CT

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Originally Posted by Luluya

The ilvl cheesing was not even a common occurence in comparison to people simply only having CT unlocked as its the only MSQ required raid, not to mention the lowest level one, just as sastasha is incredibly common in levelling roulette for being both the lowest level dungeon and the first msq required dungeon.

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A good point, and something the ilvl change does nothing about.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Maybe on your data center. I would often see people magically gain HP at the start of CT, and the amount of times I've gotten it since the change has been drastically lower. Clearly it fixed something.

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Just food for thought, while people were absolutely manipulating the roulette, that doesn't mean that was the reason CT was the result. You and the manipulators could have just been thrown into a raid where one person was queuing for CT for story reasons, or just didn't have anything else unlocked. I'm pointing this out just to say that seeing HP bar at the start doesn't mean that particular instance of CT was forced unfairly.

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Originally Posted by PyurBlue

A good point, and something the ilvl change does nothing about.


Just food for thought, while people were absolutely manipulating the roulette, that doesn't mean that was the reason CT was the result. You and the manipulators could have just been thrown into a raid where one person was queuing for CT for story reasons, or just didn't have anything else unlocked. I'm pointing this out just to say that seeing HP bar at the start doesn't mean that particular instance of CT was forced unfairly.

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This argument is thrown out the window when you realize that the new player bonus message didnt appear in the beginning and you saw those changes in HP.

This has been reported frequently

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

This argument is thrown out the window when you realize that the new player bonus message didnt appear in the beginning and you saw those changes in HP.

This has been reported frequently

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That's not actually enough information to determine what caused CT to pop up. For example, if anyone sub 60 queues, they could have run CT before but still be ineligible for any other set of raids. Even if over 60, since all the raids are optional except CT, that is still possible.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Maybe on your data center. I would often see people magically gain HP at the start of CT, and the amount of times I've gotten it since the change has been drastically lower. Clearly it fixed something.

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Yeah I would queue on Scholar and my fairy would always tell on them, you'd hear the heal and know someone just gained a bunch of HP and had to be healed up.
It was way more popular than people make it out on here.

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Originally Posted by PyurBlue

That's not actually enough information to determine what caused CT to pop up. For example, if anyone sub 60 queues, they could have run CT before but still be ineligible for any other set of raids. Even if over 60, since all the raids are optional except CT, that is still possible.

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Indeed. I don’t know why people keep brining up the “no new player” argument. There are many reasons to still get CT. There are many jobs and most start below lvl 60. On top of what you mentioned, you also have players that may have queued for it specifically either for a relic weapon quest, for WT or just because they wanted to and then even in a situation where everyone would be at 90 in BiS 660 gear with all raids unlocked which never happens, there is the “luck” factor and there would be a 20% chance of getting a CT raid.

Also, as for stripping down, the iLvl was evaluated at the time of queuing, not of getting into the dungeon. One could have gone on a DoL or DoH job while waiting.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

This argument is thrown out the window when you realize that the new player bonus message didnt appear in the beginning and you saw those changes in HP.

This has been reported frequently

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Someone who's queued for roulette to level their 57 job isn't going to generate a new player bonus message.

Again, ilvl cheese was only one of many reasons why an Alliance would get CT instead of one of the other Alliance raids.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Yeah I would queue on Scholar and my fairy would always tell on them, you'd hear the heal and know someone just gained a bunch of HP and had to be healed up.
It was way more popular than people make it out on here.

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I'm not seeing anyone denying that it was happening.

The question is whether that single individual was what caused CT to pop or if there were others in the Alliance with characteristics that cause CT to pop. Unless someone was going to spend the entire raid examining each and every player on Lodestone, short of the new player bonus message appearing there really was no way of knowing.

I've got 3 max level characters that have only done CT and not unlocked the other Alliance raids.

I have a 4th max level character that has only unlocked Ivalice in addition to CT.

I've got a character in the high 70s that likewise has only unlocked CT.

I've got another character that is mid 60s but is working on the 2.2 MSQ. She only has CT unlocked not so much out of choice (though I don't plan to unlock the others) but because of the MSQ wall.

Even if any of those characters had others unlocked, you're still only going to get CT if they're leveling a 50-59 job via Alliance roulette.

Someone needing to be healed as the Alliance enters the instance may have been crafting when the queue popped and changed their gear just as they entered so they hadn't regenerated all their HP yet. I just timed switching from my CRP to my level 90 WHM and it took 25 seconds for my HP to fill.