Review of 6.3 Story Content

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Yeah I prefer Barbariccia's fight over Rubicante. But I also like that they design the fights to be different from each other. If every fight was like Barby it wouldnt be as fun.

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Doesn't mean we can't get fast paced fights that are still different than Barbariccia's.

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Originally Posted by Teraq

There were theories about parallels between the Twelve and the Convocation, as well as an hypothesis that they could have been created by the unsundered Ascians to help mankind back up immediately post-sundering.

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Yes the Tariq know truth. Original German script 12 were No Shadow God team and guild is supporting them. Guild predict they created to dismantle human soul into the pentameld No Shadow soul to make the mustard rice. Now writer they trick us with the subvert expect and moving them to the team Venar and we are sad. 12 look like they is good but is bad.

Entire patch it is the buuz kill.

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Yes the Tariq know truth. Original German script 12 were No Shadow God team and guild is supporting them. Guild predict they created to dismantle human soul into the pentameld No Shadow soul to make the mustard rice. Now writer they trick us with the subvert expect and moving them to the team Venar and we are sad. 12 look like they is good but is bad.

Entire patch it is the buuz kill.

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https://media.tenor.com/cPQTCb1N2YwAAAAC/wait-wut.gif

Usually I can't even try to parse what he says without going cross-eyed, but "buuz kill" is a pretty good line.

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Originally Posted by Soge01

^

I liked the buuz scene! It also shows how far the devs are able to go now when it comes to animations compared to how rigged they're usually forced to be. Plus, the buuz looked pretty tasty. :3

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Yes it was such a nice scene. Also a beautiful callback to Endwalker where "we" gave Jullus a meal and now he is the one sharing his with someone from our group. I was jealous I wanted a buuz in real life too T_T...

I also loved how much more lively the characters felt. Especially with their eyes.

Anyway I am just amused how reddit is now used as a sign that this is a bad patch, while as soon as reddit is quite positive towards something its just a echo chamber full of sheeps that downvote everything that disagrees with that toxic positive view.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Anyway I am just amused how reddit is now used as a sign that this is a bad patch, while as soon as reddit is quite positive towards something its just a echo chamber full of sheeps that downvote everything that disagrees with that toxic positive view.

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funny, I noticed that as well. but the same applies here too. if you agree with the OP you are an okay person with intelligence, if you dont, you are a shill for the company. Reddit is just the latest "fact" that the OP uses to show how much EVERYONE hates the latest patch. as an "everyone" I do have to disagree with them since I am an uncultured lout who is quite enjoying it. is it a literary classic? no. are there no issues? no. but I am enjoying it and enjoyment is why I play a game.

as to why the OP plays a game... I admit I am at a loss...

On the Buuz scene, I honestly don't think Julius breaking bread with Zero was that bad or poor for the game itself. Nor do I think it was a waste of assets. It's honestly not hard to do what they did with the buuz, it's just two models and some tweening.

The buuz never bothered me (anyway).

What did was Zero being her usual "..." self while doing the hat-tipping. That was jarring.

Otherwise, on that scene? Given what we know of Zero, who has just gotten out of the Void, has interacted with only the scions and a couple servants, now on a completely different nation with people she knows were incredibly antagonistic toward us, she's trying to figure out why they'd be so buddy buddy now.

And to someone whose one and only point in the forums is deriding the story for it being an anime story, it's normal to fail to understand that, anime tropes aside, Zero's coming to terms with doing things and being charitable simply for the sake of it. To simply be reciprocal and doing good things because you're a good person. Of not needing equivalent exchange for every simple action performed for someone else. And Garlemald at the moment is the best study case. That's what that scene is setting up.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

as to why the OP plays a game... I admit I am at a loss...

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Usually he claims he does it because he likes the game and wants to see it succeed.

But when you consistently refuse any chance to change or improvement unless it fits what you yourself want, it shows that what you want isn't its success. It's to shove your own view of how the game should work down peoples' throats and not stray from it.

I say at the end of Endwalker, the WoL and all the scions should sit around a table and eat some succulent burgers.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Yes it was such a nice scene. Also a beautiful callback to Endwalker where "we" gave Jullus a meal and now he is the one sharing his with someone from our group. I was jealous I wanted a buuz in real life too T_T...

I also loved how much more lively the characters felt. Especially with their eyes.

Anyway I am just amused how reddit is now used as a sign that this is a bad patch, while as soon as reddit is quite positive towards something its just a echo chamber full of sheeps that downvote everything that disagrees with that toxic positive view.

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Heck he uses a certain thread as a heavy crutch to try and say "See? This expansion and thus the game must be bad and going down hill if it's so long and still kicking." when the one time I poked my head in there to see if it was an I hate Venat and all the writing love fest only to find myself trying to follow a multi page philosophy debate that was examining every spec of dust. Which last time I checked was something the OP said he didn't enjoy.

6.3 story does seem like the filler you would mark as "just skip it, doesn't carry over to anything /shrug".

Both the MSQ and myths had me twitching the skip button so badly, lol.

Although the story was awful, I loved each and every fight, EX5, the alliance raid fights and their music are stellar. But really, the writers really need to stop turning Golbez into the Jailer and Zero being some Sylvanas slash Venat but edgier.
Rubicante was dealt a really bad hand IMO. He should have had far far more story time in the MSQ, and lead up to his fight, because the fight itself was actually pretty fun, and the theme was amazing too. Rubicante boy deserved much much better.
At this point, I really wish there was a third or fourth option in dialogue to simply diss the scions, and their obnoxious/insufferable characters, speaking of which that new femroe in the Myth story, is literally auto skip now.

I hope the writers for the new deep dungeon story aren't the ones behind the MSQ and Myth story, would feel a bit tragic to skip, if it goes full clownmode too.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

I say at the end of Endwalker, the WoL and all the scions should sit around a table and eat some succulent burgers.

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With agressive close-ups of their chewing and biting mouths and with Paradisaical Predicaments playing in the background.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

With agressive close-ups of their chewing and biting mouths and with Paradisaical Predicaments playing in the background.

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and focusing mainly on Graha and Yshtola enjoying their burgers...

(please note I am not a huge fan of the puppy, nor do I loathe Yshtola, they are after all.. just characters in a story)

Well I'll be honest OP that I have no idea what's going on anymore after 6.0. As a matter of fact, after the Zodiark thing, I dropped it.
I'm just not gonna deal with this cringe writing bull anymore and them throwing things out of no where.
Completely lost it when the Loli birb and her boyfriend was the ones all along! LOL.

These writers are either new or some people they pulled from some fanfic websites and said go. The issue is the horrible pacing that is
tremendously worse than SB. We literally saved the ENTIRE world in 1 patch and then we supposedly 'split up' but we don't. So I am yet again,
stuck with the same bozo's for 2 expansion years or so and I want frigging cry.
The only people I feel like deserve more time is probably the twins and Eisteninininin.

Also, do not bother bringing the idiot catman with us. You guys turned him into a joke and I wish he crystalized instead of being this weird teehee :3 borgers cringe thing.
Actually, you could had given us all a bone and let him be with Lyna so they could be a couple. Nope. You just had to go the weeb route with it and
then you focus on all these random hot anime guys in white robes with mommy Venat lol.

I will have a hard time believing the people who wrote HW is writing this dumpster fire.
I hope they actually just do better in 7.0 but the bits I hear about 6.1- to .3 is just uninteresting and uninspired.
Next time you wanna 'end' a series or story...how about doing it at the END of the expansion?

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Originally Posted by Moebious

6.3 story does seem like the filler you would mark as "just skip it, doesn't carry over to anything /shrug".

Both the MSQ and myths had me twitching the skip button so badly, lol.

Although the story was awful, I loved each and every fight, EX5, the alliance raid fights and their music are stellar. But really, the writers really need to stop turning Golbez into the Jailer and Zero being some Sylvanas slash Venat but edgier.
Rubicante was dealt a really bad hand IMO. He should have had far far more story time in the MSQ, and lead up to his fight, because the fight itself was actually pretty fun, and the theme was amazing too. Rubicante boy deserved much much better.
At this point, I really wish there was a third or fourth option in dialogue to simply diss the scions, and their obnoxious/insufferable characters, speaking of which that new femroe in the Myth story, is literally auto skip now.

I hope the writers for the new deep dungeon story aren't the ones behind the MSQ and Myth story, would feel a bit tragic to skip, if it goes full clownmode too.

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Unfortunately we know that the likes of G'raha Tia is involved in the Deep Dungeon story so I can only imagine that it'll be another questline that you couldn't pay me to endure firsthand. A pity Maehiro wasn't around long enough to permanently kill off more of Ishikawa's ocs.

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Originally Posted by Jybril

Well I'll be honest OP that I have no idea what's going on anymore after 6.0. As a matter of fact, after the Zodiark thing, I dropped it.
I'm just not gonna deal with this cringe writing bull anymore and them throwing things out of no where.
Completely lost it when the Loli birb and her boyfriend was the ones all along! LOL.

These writers are either new or some people they pulled from some fanfic websites and said go. The issue is the horrible pacing that is
tremendously worse than SB. We literally saved the ENTIRE world in 1 patch and then we supposedly 'split up' but we don't. So I am yet again,
stuck with the same bozo's for 2 expansion years or so and I want frigging cry.
The only people I feel like deserve more time is probably the twins and Eisteninininin.

Also, do not bother bringing the idiot catman with us. You guys turned him into a joke and I wish he crystalized instead of being this weird teehee :3 borgers cringe thing.
Actually, you could had given us all a bone and let him be with Lyna so they could be a couple. Nope. You just had to go the weeb route with it and
then you focus on all these random hot anime guys in white robes with mommy Venat lol.

I will have a hard time believing the people who wrote HW is writing this dumpster fire.
I hope they actually just do better in 7.0 but the bits I hear about 6.1- to .3 is just uninteresting and uninspired.
Next time you wanna 'end' a series or story...how about doing it at the END of the expansion?

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Same. Only thing to note is that the blame for the current state of the story doesn't lie at Maehiro's feet or the rest of the Heavensward team. Even localization took a nosedive this expansion with examples like "the words of the crystal's original bearer" confusing mess with Koji gone as well. I'd much rather place the game back in the hands of theatre kids/nerds than fan fiction writers obsessed with their "unique" characters, that's for sure.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Unfortunately we know that the likes of G'raha Tia is involved in the Deep Dungeon story so I can only imagine that it'll be another questline that you couldn't pay me to endure firsthand. A pity Maehiro wasn't around long enough to permanently kill off more of Ishikawa's ocs.



Same. Only thing to note is that the blame for the current state of the story doesn't lie at Maehiro's feet or the rest of the Heavensward team. Even localization took a nosedive this expansion with examples like "the words of the crystal's original bearer" confusing mess with Koji gone as well. I'd much rather place the game back in the hands of theatre kids/nerds than fan fiction writers obsessed with their "unique" characters, that's for sure.

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Sadly this honestly feels like you conversing with alts of yourself XD like you only quote and ramble to people loosely following a similar mindset but even then they at least have comprehension for the most part. I will just keep enjoying these posts every patch and just see if they keep posting about record numbers etc in the future because the game is far from decline that's for sure. If it were such a problem they would of addressed it as it's their main cash cow they aren't entirely blind to problems...unless you include the CEOs hill to die on NFT stint but that's another topic for another time.

Just finished up with MSQ and Alliance stuff. Though I did the latter on patch day. I'm still digesting the MSQ, so I want to refrain from starting/joining any arguments on that regard and I have only read the OP.

As far as the alliance raid goes, I was really hoping they would not link this to Venat and the ancients, and keep the twelve completely separate from that timeline. They went and did it though, and I feel it is lazy writing. I understand it would have taken a lot of effort to come up with a completely different storyline that is all their own, but that effort would have made it all the more worthwhile. The ancient's obsession with genocide definitely has me understand why Azem defected from both convocations, and I'm right there with them. It's like being part of a generation you're not proud of. Where this leaves me now if far less interested in the twelve than I previously was.

My initial thoughts on the MSQ hasn't really waned from where it has been in a while, and the constant callbacks to previous FF games makes it really difficult for FFXIV to stand on its own two feet. I suppose I can see this for things like raids, and other content outside the MSQ. That was done really well with the Omega raids. But here we have the twelve, which is exclusive to FFXIV, and this is the raid, while the MSQ is siphoning off FFIV like there's no tomorrow. So much so, that those who know that game well can probably predict how this whole thing ends. That's not what you want as a writer.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

As far as the alliance raid goes, I was really hoping they would not link this to Venat and the ancients, and keep the twelve completely separate from that timeline. They went and did it though, and I feel it is lazy writing. I understand it would have taken a lot of effort to come up with a completely different storyline that is all their own, but that effort would have made it all the more worthwhile.

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I don't think there can be other way though. If they leave the twelve as their own being, then they'll have to answer the question why did the twelve not intervene during the first final day. The Ancient was already pretty much god like, and if the twelve are true divine being even beyond them, that'll be a pretty big plot hole. As far as the storyboard goes, I don't think it's lazy, just make sense if Venat had a plan beside simply nuke the world with the sunder and left to its own device. The philosophy behind the twelve method of of operation also fit well how she wants to prep mankind to ultimately face the End Singer.

The issue is, like I said, the "way" FF14 tell its story. I had said only during the launch story arch that you legit see an appropriate amount of effort put in. But that's pretty much done as soon as the credit roll. The next 3 years, the "after story" portion in the next 3 years are just given very plainly. Even if the storyline is good, even if it's logical, the delivery is very much lazy. There usually no build up, no prep, most of the time we have a new random NPC that we have no connection just stop by, talk a handful of line and we're somehow got drag to the next earth shaking adventure.

And most zarring part about this particular story line is it feels like no one really give a crap about meeting the twelves. Like Ghara came back with the contraption and he seems to put more emphasis on making sure to return it safely because the forum only "loan" it to them. Like ... really? We're meeting "the" twelve Gods here, you would think as soon as the world got out everyone will pool resource into an expedition, not treating it as a favor for a side project. Like seriously, I think the only reason they put that over-excited fem-roe in there (to the point of cringe) is an effort to instill the kind of excitement they think people should have about the storyline but know only a few would.


tl;dr: the after story cycle of FF14 is like a counting only on the lyric to carry the performance while putting in minimum effort in the stage and instrument itself, and it has been this way since 2.0.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Just finished up with MSQ and Alliance stuff. Though I did the latter on patch day. I'm still digesting the MSQ, so I want to refrain from starting/joining any arguments on that regard and I have only read the OP.

As far as the alliance raid goes, I was really hoping they would not link this to Venat and the ancients, and keep the twelve completely separate from that timeline. They went and did it though, and I feel it is lazy writing. I understand it would have taken a lot of effort to come up with a completely different storyline that is all their own, but that effort would have made it all the more worthwhile. The ancient's obsession with genocide definitely has me understand why Azem defected from both convocations, and I'm right there with them. It's like being part of a generation you're not proud of. Where this leaves me now if far less interested in the twelve than I previously was.

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I can understand why people wanted the Twelve to not be related to Vanet/Hydaelyn (Even outside the whole hate she gets) and perhaps a twist would have been more intriguing, but I think it also makes perfect sense that they are connected. I like the idea that Hydaelyn knew the Sundering could wreck unintended havoc on reality and installed them on Etheirys like an anti-virus (Though why just on the Source… unless each Shard has their own version of the Twelve who protect them?). Its more little bits of info like that I want to see in regards to what we know about the Sundering and original Final Days, which is still very little. It is worth remembering too that we still have at least 1/3rd of the Raid story to go. We do not yet know the exact reason why they have revealed themselves and wish to battle us, and that may very well change how we see the information we received in 6.3.

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My initial thoughts on the MSQ hasn't really waned from where it has been in a while, and the constant callbacks to previous FF games makes it really difficult for FFXIV to stand on its own two feet.

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I must say that, whilst I have been enjoying the 6.x MSQ very much, I am a little disappointed in just how the FFIV elements are being used. Now I am fine with the game taking past game elements and incorporating them in their own ways (I also liked the Nier stuff) and I utterly adore what we have seen about the Thirteenth, Void culture, the Contramemoria ect, but the Fiends aspect feels a little lacklustre. Bit too ‘copy and paste’. Feels like they could do more to intagrate them into the wider fabric of the Thriteenth. Speaking of which, it kinda boggles my mind how the most interesting parts to the Four Fiends, their backstories and how they joined Golbez, is hidden in an optional side quest many will miss! At leats give it a blue ! so more people will find it...

I am very curious just how we will see Golbez by the end of this patch cycle. I still think they can do good by him, and I adore his voice actor.

I know this will probably sound bad but I'm hoping the next patch they animate much more food(and make it look really tasty) just to annoy the OP

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

I don't think there can be other way though. If they leave the twelve as their own being, then they'll have to answer the question why did the twelve not intervene during the first final day. The Ancient was already pretty much god like, and if the twelve are true divine being even beyond them, that'll be a pretty big plot hole. As far as the storyboard goes, I don't think it's lazy, just make sense if Venat had a plan beside simply nuke the world with the sunder and left to its own device. The philosophy behind the twelve method of of operation also fit well how she wants to prep mankind to ultimately face the End Singer.

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I see where you're coming from. I do understand the difficulty with going the direction I was hoping for in order to prevent plot holes. I suppose I shouldn't say "lazy writing", but it is definitely the easier approach to the implementation of the Twelve. The thing is though, the twelve had nothing to do with Endsinger as for as preparation goes. Venat's haymakers were Azem, and the moon. The latter of which could only be temporary as the Endsinger planned on eradicating all life in existence. Assuming it is not covered in 6.5, we may never know how exactly the twelve would contend with the end of days if Azem failed. The plot hole is still potentially an issue.

Idk. I feel like people are mostly saying 6.x has been a low point because of the height that 6.0 itself was. It's the biggest point the game has ever been at so now that things are on a new track it has to work its way to building that again. I don't believe the 6.x series has been perfect but I do believe it's been far from bad or boring. They have taken a more serious approach with it as some of the other stories are more light hearted like MotR. It's always nice to see the other Scions off doing their own things. Why I find it odd when folks say they shove them in our face all the time when that's really not the case.

XIVs story telling can flip at times with sometimes things being laid out plain and other times them expecting players to think more n find the answer. Sometimes they only give out nuggets here n there which paves way for community discussion/theory crafting like I believe they are doing with Golbez. Some folks are enjoying the discussion while others have called him the Jailer and moved on. Can't please everyone.

I've said it many times n I'll say it again. If the first few books in a series isn't hitting you, don't buy anymore issues. Just move to another series. You'll love yourself for it when you find something that clicks

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Originally Posted by Hurlstone

I can understand why people wanted the Twelve to not be related to Vanet/Hydaelyn (Even outside the whole hate she gets) and perhaps a twist would have been more intriguing, but I think it also makes perfect sense that they are connected. I like the idea that Hydaelyn knew the Sundering could wreck unintended havoc on reality and installed them on Etheirys like an anti-virus (Though why just on the Source… unless each Shard has their own version of the Twelve who protect them?).

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The way I saw it is they are simply divinities true, as they themselves claim to be. And do not intervene with the affairs of mankind. The lore book describe Althyk as the first to come from the 'Whorl', and along with Nymeia gave birth to sisters Menphina and Azeyma. More would come to existence through whorl like Thaliak, with some going on to 'create' additional gods of the Twelve. Iirc Nymeia just created Rhalgr on a whim as creation was getting out of control. And then there's Oschon, who just popped up out of nowhere. Not even the other gods know where he came from. It's all so mystifying, and I love that. Were they around pre-sundered Etheirys, or did they come after? I felt it would've been ok to just leave these questions alone.

I feel the direction they are going is what leaves the potential for holes to pop up all over the place. Are they sundered as well? If not, how did they avoid it. We learned that Amet, Lahabrea, and Elidibus avoiding it was no small or easy feat. How does Emet know their true identities? Unlike my above statements, these questions do indeed need to be answered, or it leaves a giant hole. It's nowhere near as mysterious as the twelve just being gods, whom for some reason have decided to make themselves present to certain members of mankind.

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Originally Posted by Hurlstone

I must say that, whilst I have been enjoying the 6.x MSQ very much, I am a little disappointed in just how the FFIV elements are being used. Now I am fine with the game taking past game elements and incorporating them in their own ways (I also liked the Nier stuff) and I utterly adore what we have seen about the Thirteenth, Void culture, the Contramemoria ect, but the Fiends aspect feels a little lacklustre. Bit too ‘copy and paste’. Feels like they could do more to intagrate them into the wider fabric of the Thriteenth. Speaking of which, it kinda boggles my mind how the most interesting parts to the Four Fiends, their backstories and how they joined Golbez, is hidden in an optional side quest many will miss! At leats give it a blue ! so more people will find it...

I am very curious just how we will see Golbez by the end of this patch cycle. I still think they can do good by him, and I adore his voice actor.

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After a little more digesting, everything going on with Golbez, the archfiends, Azdaja (gorgeous dragon BTW) could have taken place during an intermission from the previous plot with Hydaelyn, Zodiark, and Endsinger. I know Yoshi and team wanted to move on, but it was without question very rushed. Garlemald, the 13th, and Elpis are each expansions within themselves. They could have put the story on hiatus to explore the Garlemald and Zenos, and the 13th and Golbez. Easily. They made Anima, and two archfiends dungeon bosses, and this could all have been avoided.

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The buuz never bothered me (anyway).

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GO TO YOUR ROOM.

NOW.

https://media.tenor.com/rAKzf9vmlYkA...ss-lacroix.gif

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

And most zarring part about this particular story line is it feels like no one really give a crap about meeting the twelves. Like Ghara came back with the contraption and he seems to put more emphasis on making sure to return it safely because the forum only "loan" it to them. Like ... really? We're meeting "the" twelve Gods here, you would think as soon as the world got out everyone will pool resource into an expedition, not treating it as a favor for a side project. Like seriously, I think the only reason they put that over-excited fem-roe in there (to the point of cringe) is an effort to instill the kind of excitement they think people should have about the storyline but know only a few would.

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I don't know - 50/50 on this one. I mean, on one hand, it's not really difficult to believe that the Forum might have been skeptical with regard to the claims about the Twelve appearing to a select few. And one might be forgiven for thinking they're perhaps not taking it all that seriously since they (presumably - I think I recall reference to her being from Old Sharlayan?) sent the somewhat eccentric Snoegeim to The Omphalos.

On the other hand I'm not sure why they wouldn't believe it as it's probably not the most outrageous claim they've ever heard!

My takes:


1) The Myth raid continuation is okay. The big revealing seemingly goads players to believe a certain individual on the moon has something to do with The Twelve, which leads to speculations about the The Twelve's true origin. I think NPCs will be revealed to be wrong by the next raid release. In the other hand, I enjoy how the five deities introduced this patch, as they warm up to players significantly after the facade in the first raid. Menphina has her spotlight with character development, which I think cuz she is Oschon's lover, who is suspected to be Deryk, who may play the major part next raid.



2) MSQ feels short this time, mainly cuz there are not much happening in between the dungeon boss and the trial boss. I feel like meeting the twin again should let players explore a bit more about the Garlean instead of just briefing "Ay, we are doing better than before!". Also, when the group is back to Radz-at-hans, instead of just immediately going to fight trial boss, perhaps there should be moments alone between WoL and Zero, so that the later can discuss in-depth about what she has gone through in Garlemald and tell WoL about her past more, instead of just spamming "the fire in my breast". Also, no one knows about what she has gone through, not even WoL, cuz it was her own reminisce, not an echo vision.



Still, despite of Garlemald section being short, I will give a thumb up on including dialogue about players being a Reaper and there are changes in NPC dialogue before the solo duty. I wish to see more this level of details in future contents.

3) The dungeon itself is cool, but only cool if you play Reaper. Otherwise, the second boss' test messages don't echo well to non-Reaper players when it mentions Reaper-related NPC names.


4) I think the post-trial story does justice with the character development of Rubicante. He is known as the charismatic Archfiend of Fire in FF4 who fight fair, and his counterpart in FF14 is well done, despite being very brief. However, the trial is named "Mount Ordeals", which is a mountain that doesn't exist in The Source (it was training place of pre-Rubicante in the Thirteenth pre-Flood of Darkness). The fight with Rubycante happens in The Source, which doesn't have this mountain. This feels like a rare oversight of FF14 story writer.

5) I love Tataru story involving the Four Lords. It is played light-heartedly, not unlike the Four Lord trial story itself, and it ends with a cool glam!



It is not strange to see FF14 have up and down when it comes to story. 6.3 is a "down" moment for me. I enjoy the story of side contents, but MSQ feels rushed.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

I don't know - 50/50 on this one. I mean, on one hand, it's not really difficult to believe that the Forum might have been skeptical with regard to the claims about the Twelve appearing to a select few. And one might be forgiven for thinking they're perhaps not taking it all that seriously since they (presumably - I think I recall reference to her being from Old Sharlayan?) sent the somewhat eccentric Snoegeim to The Omphalos.

On the other hand I'm not sure why they wouldn't believe it as it's probably not the most outrageous claim they've ever heard!

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Except the claim is not made by random people, it's made by the scion with the WoL as one of the main PI. The forum know better these are not the people who make such claim out of thin air.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I see where you're coming from. I do understand the difficulty with going the direction I was hoping for in order to prevent plot holes. I suppose I shouldn't say "lazy writing", but it is definitely the easier approach to the implementation of the Twelve. The thing is though, the twelve had nothing to do with Endsinger as for as preparation goes.

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I think it does. If you dissect what written as their role, they're pretty much shepherded humanity down to path of independently grow. Remember after the sunder mankind is like a new born babe and each of the twelve are tasked with "inspiration" for an aspect of life. But they're also 100% hand-off 'cause if they serve as the handicap, humanity wouldn't be ready. The thing Halogne keeps saying "we're what faith make us to be, but the faith is yours and yours alone" exemplify this.

Both Venat and the tweleve approach to mankind actually reminds me a few very loving but also extremely stern parents. I remember a father who told his daughter that if she still wants to stay in the house after 18, she has to pay him rent. But the day she finally move out a few years later, he gave her a jar that had all the rent she had paid over the years. He never touched a penny, that was simply his way to prepare her for real life.

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Originally Posted by Momo_Kozuki

It is not strange to see FF14 have up and down when it comes to story. 6.3 is a "down" moment for me. I enjoy the story of side contents, but MSQ feels rushed.

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Interesting. On 6.2 i felt more interested in Pandaemonium than the MSQ, the end was just...crazy.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

The way I saw it is they are simply divinities true, as they themselves claim to be.

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Thats fair. I can understand wanting to keep them mystical and divine as you say. Personally speaking though, I have been wanting an explanation on the Twelve ever since I played The Praetorium back in ARR haha. I really love how FFXIV has handled the idea of Gods with Primals. Its kinda one of my favourite fantasy tropes, dissecting the notion of Gods and their relationship with mortals. So far I like what they are doing with the Twelve, regarding their origin and how Dynamis may be connected to their changing forms. Though naturally will be keeping judgement until we know the full story. Alot still could happen.

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I feel the direction they are going is what leaves the potential for holes to pop up all over the place. Are they sundered as well? If not, how did they avoid it. We learned that Amet, Lahabrea, and Elidibus avoiding it was no small or easy feat. How does Emet know their true identities? Unlike my above statements, these questions do indeed need to be answered, or it leaves a giant hole. It's nowhere near as mysterious as the twelve just being gods, whom for some reason have decided to make themselves present to certain members of mankind.

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Personally speaking I am more happy with those questions being unanswered then the Twelves actual origins. Not to say I do not want those answers, I really do! Its clear that Emet knew about them, but did they know about the Sundering and the Rejoinings? My hope is we do get some answers in 6.5. Should also worth noting we are the type of nerds/fans who like to discuss the story on forums, there will be those ALWAYS asking and poking for answers no matter what the game gives us. Part of being lore fans!

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After a little more digesting, everything going on with Golbez, the archfiends, Azdaja (gorgeous dragon BTW) could have taken place during an intermission from the previous plot with Hydaelyn, Zodiark, and Endsinger. I know Yoshi and team wanted to move on, but it was without question very rushed. Garlemald, the 13th, and Elpis are each expansions within themselves. They could have put the story on hiatus to explore the Garlemald and Zenos, and the 13th and Golbez. Easily. They made Anima, and two archfiends dungeon bosses, and this could all have been avoided.

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Its certainly true that all those things could easily be expansions in their own right, and I would really have loved the Void in particular to be an expansion of its own. Then again I get that Yoshi wants to wrap the main story up now and explore new ground. I think it may depend on just what the next expansion is, and how much this current story will effect it. My current idea is we will free Azdaja and then accompany her to Meracydia in 7.0, but who knows. Could be that Golbez is being set up as the villain of that expansion over this.

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Originally Posted by Elissar

Interesting. On 6.2 i felt more interested in Pandaemonium than the MSQ, the end was just...crazy.

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Likewise. However if Hiroi messes up the ending to Pandaemonium in 6.4 then I will flat out refuse to play a 7.0 written by him. I've already been burned enough by Ishikawa's bait and switch, I'll not be going through that again anytime soon. This is the first time in a decade when I've even had to consider not buying the next expansion, all of it due to how badly Endwalker set multiple aspects of the game on fire with story just being one of many key failings that no one seems willing to address.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I will flat out refuse to play a 7.0 written by him. .

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Yeah you will. You have a compulsive need to complain. You'll be back every single time.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Likewise. However if Hiroi messes up the ending to Pandaemonium in 6.4 then I will flat out refuse to play a 7.0 written by him. I've already been burned enough by Ishikawa's bait and switch, I'll not be going through that again anytime soon. This is the first time in a decade when I've even had to consider not buying the next expansion, all of it due to how badly Endwalker set multiple aspects of the game on fire with story just being one of many key failings that no one seems willing to address.

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Many people, like the above poster, want you to think that you have to and there’s no choice. To them, FFXIV has no competition in the MMO space right now. People keep promoting this game everywhere they go to get anyone and everyone to play. They say it has the best story, the best raids, the best gameplay, the best community, and so on. Whenever someone mentions a reasonable criticism or nuanced opinion, they get shot down. We have to consume this particular product because other people have made it a part of their personality.

Unfortunately for them, regular consumers aren’t turned on by this constant circlejerk. Given that FFXIV isn’t even the third most-played MMO, there’s millions upon millions of people who know about this game and simply don’t care for it. There’s something that just doesn’t click with the vast majority of MMO gamers. Maybe having 90% of the gameplay be a visual novel snooze fest is one? For every interesting cutscene in this game, there’s ten with nothing but nodding, hat-tipping, and endless walls of text that have no impact on the plot. It’s molasses compared to even the dullest Final Fantasy title. And we’re supposed to like this?

The FFXIV community has way too much hubris and self-importance for a hat-tipping cutscene and dress-up simulator.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Likewise. However if Hiroi messes up the ending to Pandaemonium in 6.4 then I will flat out refuse to play a 7.0 written by him.

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See ya when 7.0 drops :D

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

To them, FFXIV has no competition in the MMO space right now.

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When was this said??

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

People keep promoting this game everywhere they go to get anyone and everyone to play. They say it has the best story, the best raids, the best gameplay, the best community, and so on.

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This is true for alot of people. If anybody disagrees, thats your opinion.
Every opinion is valid regardless if most people agree or disagree with it.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Whenever someone mentions a reasonable criticism or nuanced opinion, they get shot down.

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Not True, I am one of many people who have agreed and even had Nuanced opinions about FFXIV and some of its criticisms.
Ive even taken OPs side once or twice.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

there’s millions upon millions of people who know about this game and simply don’t care for it. There’s something that just doesn’t click with the vast majority of MMO gamers.

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Same could be said about WoW, Runescape, Guildwars or....just about any game ever...so....

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Maybe having 90% of the gameplay be a visual novel snooze fest is one? For every interesting cutscene in this game, there’s ten with nothing but nodding, hat-tipping, and endless walls of text that have no impact on the plot. It’s molasses compared to even the dullest Final Fantasy title. And we’re supposed to like this?
The FFXIV community has way too much hubris and self-importance for a hat-tipping cutscene and dress-up simulator.

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Im guessing you really just dont like Post-Endwalker lol
So, if you arnt engaged and dont like whats happening right now, fine. Thats ok. (once again proving you wrong about shooting down criticism)
Do keep in mind though we are currently building up to the next storyline. We just finished the big Zodiark Hydalyn storyline that drove the game. We are building up to the next one. In storytelling these things can take time...but of course the pacing is up to the author. Sometimes its not that great, sometimes it gets good. All a matter of perspective and opinion.
If you arn't enjoying it, there is nothing wrong with taking a break.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Many people, like the above poster, want you to think that you have to and there’s no choice. To them, FFXIV has no competition in the MMO space right now. People keep promoting this game everywhere they go to get anyone and everyone to play. They say it has the best story, the best raids, the best gameplay, the best community, and so on. Whenever someone mentions a reasonable criticism or nuanced opinion, they get shot down. We have to consume this particular product because other people have made it a part of their personality.

Unfortunately for them, regular consumers aren’t turned on by this constant circlejerk. Given that FFXIV isn’t even the third most-played MMO, there’s millions upon millions of people who know about this game and simply don’t care for it. There’s something that just doesn’t click with the vast majority of MMO gamers. Maybe having 90% of the gameplay be a visual novel snooze fest is one? For every interesting cutscene in this game, there’s ten with nothing but nodding, hat-tipping, and endless walls of text that have no impact on the plot. It’s molasses compared to even the dullest Final Fantasy title. And we’re supposed to like this?

The FFXIV community has way too much hubris and self-importance for a hat-tipping cutscene and dress-up simulator.

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I dunno, I feel the notion that people who still enjoy the game are ‘blindly loyal’ to it and do not have/are repressing any criticism or negative opinion is a bit of a fallacy. Most of the debates on this forum rarely ever involve people saying that the game is perfect or free from flaws. Sure, on places like Reddit you will see more pure celebration of the game but… is that a bad thing? Must we always have to do deep dives into every aspect of the game? Or specifically state we have ‘negatives/positives’ about the game before giving an opinion? I saw someone once state that positing commissioned artwork of their WoL was a sign of toxic positivity and to say that just seems… very sad. Sure, some people likely are victim to toxic positivity, in the same way that people are also victim to toxic negativity. Every game has that, but we should not blindly judge others or say we speak for the community as a whole, especially in regard to issues that are subjective like story quality.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Many people, like the above poster, want you to think that you have to and there’s no choice. To them, FFXIV has no competition in the MMO space right now. People keep promoting this game everywhere they go to get anyone and everyone to play. They say it has the best story, the best raids, the best gameplay, the best community, and so on. Whenever someone mentions a reasonable criticism or nuanced opinion, they get shot down. We have to consume this particular product because other people have made it a part of their personality.

Unfortunately for them, regular consumers aren’t turned on by this constant circlejerk. Given that FFXIV isn’t even the third most-played MMO, there’s millions upon millions of people who know about this game and simply don’t care for it. There’s something that just doesn’t click with the vast majority of MMO gamers. Maybe having 90% of the gameplay be a visual novel snooze fest is one? For every interesting cutscene in this game, there’s ten with nothing but nodding, hat-tipping, and endless walls of text that have no impact on the plot. It’s molasses compared to even the dullest Final Fantasy title. And we’re supposed to like this?

The FFXIV community has way too much hubris and self-importance for a hat-tipping cutscene and dress-up simulator.

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Indeed it does.

As far as competition goes I can't say I missed the game much during my break as I replayed the Dragon Age games and a number of other rpgs, with WoW and FFXI to get my mmo fix. FFXIV by comparison is a bloated mess with rapidly degrading gameplay and increasing the level cap will only stretch out what few abilities we have further and make the early levels even more unbearable - suffice to say I would not have made it past ARR with the state of classes in this game. An enormous waste of time before combat gets good and a story that betrays you by the end, no thanks.

FFXIV is currently suffering from an extreme mismanagement problem on all fronts. The story in the past may have redeemed it, but the shift from actually entertaining the player with a decent adventure back in Heavensward and Shadowbringers has all been thrown away for the sake of the need of some of these writers to play at being philosophers when I'm at odds with the morals they try to put across and the obtuse way they've gone about doing so. "Forge ahead!" the game tells me as the Scions get magically brought back from death while the former companions a malevolent witch manipulated us into murdering get permakilled off.

Unless FFXIV becomes an actual video game in 7.0 I can't see how in the world this game will manage to pull off its alleged "10 year plan." You can't hope to keep this game running with a story that generated the most backlash in the past decade and doubling down on it further with progressively lazier and moralizing writing, jobs getting ruined left and right, and absolutely 0 response to any of these problems. But I guess the Limsa crowd will enjoy their graphics upgrade so the game looks like it came out in 2015 instead of 2010, whereas most others will be off playing whatever's slated to come out around 7.0, like FFVII Remake Part 2, etc.

I look forward to the threads from you in 6.4, 6.5 and 6.55 and heck likely 7.0. If we don't oh well its not a big loss, there is being constructive with your opinions or flat-out calling everyone wrong and also choosing actively to quote and reply to people that loosely conform to a similar mindset. If the game declines change may happen who knows we aren't in decline. At the moment it goes from strength to strength, even with WoW slightly reinvigorating itself (Albeit has a ton to prove because you talk about devs not listening well oh boy haha) I think the biggest read flag is being a Dragon Age fan...that's a fanbase that got kicked about release to release, only the first game was amazing the rest deary me.

If you are trolling or can't seem to have open honest debate then you're best just leaving altogether because you cherry-picking posts to quote or screens on the odd comment on Reddit doesn't form a case. Just cause you to find 10 people with the same viewpoint doesn't escape the hundreds or thousands who doubt. Also, not everyone who plays who has a positive or negative opinion may even use Reddit or the forums. Time will tell if this all lasts or it finishes up, lets's just be open and constructive and actually want a debate.

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Originally Posted by CStrife912

I look forward to the threads from you in 6.4, 6.5 and 6.55 and heck likely 7.0.

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I give him 50/50 odds he'll be back by 6.35 to complain about something. Either the deep dungeon story, or Hildebrand, or the relics, or the relics that require Hildebrand requiring running the deep dungeon, or something.

Wonder if he'll be for or against Reddit then? Guess it depends if they agree with him that week.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Unless FFXIV becomes an actual video game in 7.0 I can't see how in the world this game will manage to pull off its alleged "10 year plan." You can't hope to keep this game running with a story that generated the most backlash in the past decade and doubling down on it further with progressively lazier and moralizing writing, jobs getting ruined left and right, and absolutely 0 response to any of these problems. But I guess the Limsa crowd will enjoy their graphics upgrade so the game looks like it came out in 2015 instead of 2010, whereas most others will be off playing whatever's slated to come out around 7.0, like FFVII Remake Part 2, etc.

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You seem to be confusing percentages with pure numbers. EW blew away every other expansion in the size of its playerbase, and also saw a significant influx of players from WoW (which is a rather different kind of MMO). Simple math says that EW will likely have the most anything in terms of pure numbers, whether good, bad, or anything in-between. Speaking frankly, based on its playerbase, EW's "backlash" has been minimal. It's come down to a few dozen posters here on this one forum complaining incessantly. Go to just a single YT video on EW and you'll likely find hundreds of people posting about how much they enjoyed EW and how meaningful it was for them.

Heck, when Soken revealed he was recovering from cancer back in ShB, a group of 40 musicians put together a tribute for him. When "Close in the Distance" came out for EW, a group of 1000 people submitted voice recordings to create a fan-made version of it. Again - when you have by far the largest number of people playing, you will also likely have the largest # of people doing anything (including complaining or creating "backlash"). In terms of the size of the playerbase? The "backlash" is minuscule. Frankly, I can easily see the next "10-year plan" going off quite well given the current trajectory of the game.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Wonder if he'll be for or against Reddit then? Guess it depends if they agree with him that week.

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Seems accurate to OPs pattern.
Only time he ever posts is if you agree with him.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Heck, when Soken revealed he was recovering from cancer back in ShB, a group of 40 musicians put together a tribute for him. When "Close in the Distance" came out for EW, a group of 1000 people submitted voice recordings to create a fan-made version of it. Again - when you have by far the largest number of people playing, you will also likely have the largest # of people doing anything (including complaining or creating "backlash"). In terms of the size of the playerbase? The "backlash" is minuscule. Frankly, I can easily see the next "10-year plan" going off quite well given the current trajectory of the game.

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I would not normally respond to you under any circumstances but the fact that you came in here with the emotional manipulation angle has driven me to do so.

I do not care whether or not the music dude had cancer or not - my issue is with other sectors of the game pertaining to story and gameplay and the fact that you brought this up to back up your gotcha is behavior that you should strongly reconsider.

Do not use other people's health as a weapon in an argument.