What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I was specifying her because the other charcaters at least had something somewhat significant they were doing this expansion. But i cant for the life of me think of anything she did this expansion of substantial value.

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She’s a cat girl. There’s the reason. /s

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Their sole measure shouldn't be based solely on the given fact of what they do this expansion, or have done this expansion, but their planned endeavours for her going forward. Which if she's planning to work on a method for traversing the reflections is pretty darn significant. Given how late their eluded deaths were, then beyond that immediate point none of them really served any significant purpose anyway. So in reality they could have killed off any one of the scions. Besides the more they done and contributed up towards that point would have made for a much more impactful and surprising death.

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I mean, i disagree, i think it should be measured that way because why have a character who has no plot relevance? All for a "maybe in the future"? Like how maybe in the future theyll finally bring back her life draining plot?If a character isnt doing anything for the plot, then at that point theyre stale and need to be replaced. Its just another part of the whole plot armor bias situation. She did nothing for the plot this expansion, why have her continue to stick around when that position can be given to another character that could actually have some worth and relevance.They did it for lyse. She did what she had to do and they wrote her out when she wasnt contributing much. The same should go for yshtola. She contributed very little.

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Originally Posted by xxmiamorecadenza

She’s a cat girl. There’s the reason. /s

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I think it's pretty safe to remove the /s and it would still be a correct answer XD

Just look at how many people simp for her and her version of the high-school au manga.

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Originally Posted by Jybril

I was actually adding onto the discussion of the entire topic, I'm sure you knew that.
Only like the first two sentences were directed at her. Nice try.

You guys get extremely hostile when someone says one thing they don't like about this game and it's annoying.
What's the point of the forum if the first thing people are gonna is call you a troll for it? I'm not sure what's worse this or Reddit.
You can barely discuss on here without getting sent to the stake LOL.

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I didnt shorten the Quote like I was suppose to lol.
I was just addressing the 1st half. Ah well, thats my Fail.

I wasn't even being Hostile. I just found it funny that you took a Meme/Joke image that seriously. Maybe somebody thinks its a troll thread...ok?...ignore them, and focus on the people adding to the conversation.
Nobody is taking away anybodies right or ability to Criticize the game, especially when there are in fact valid Criticisms.
Everyone is allowed to voice their opinion, Good and Bad. Just like everyone is allowed to disagree with said opinion. But for some odd reason there is this idea that "Im allowed to say whatever I want...but nobody is allowed to Disagree with me"
I think that is way more Hostile then some "This is Bait" image. Or somebody disagreeing.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

I didnt shorten the Quote like I was suppose to lol.
I was just addressing the 1st half. Ah well, thats my Fail.

I wasn't even being Hostile. I just found it funny that you took a Meme/Joke image that seriously. Maybe somebody thinks its a troll thread...ok?...ignore them, and focus on the people adding to the conversation.
Nobody is taking away anybodies right or ability to Criticize the game, especially when there are in fact valid Criticisms.
Everyone is allowed to voice their opinion, Good and Bad. Just like everyone is allowed to disagree with said opinion. But for some odd reason there is this idea that "Im allowed to say whatever I want...but nobody is allowed to Disagree with me"
I think that is way more Hostile then some "This is Bait" image. Or somebody disagreeing.

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I think the problem is that typically, people chalking off a thread as bait or a troll is done whenever someone is critiquing the game. Its done deliberately in a way to try and stifle discussion which is just extremely rude tbh. Lets not act like this is some shocking thing, its happened plenty of times around these parts, specially when it comes to lore.

I thought it was fine.

Y’shtola does not need plot armor, she has marketing armor. She is the FFXIV mascot used in other SE games and in advertising. She is just as immortal as us and the only thing that will happen to her is a nice cozy retirement when the time comes, no death, no harm.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I think the problem is that typically, people chalking off a thread as bait or a troll is done whenever someone is critiquing the game. Its done deliberately in a way to try and stifle discussion which is just extremely rude tbh. Lets not act like this is some shocking thing, its happened plenty of times around these parts, specially when it comes to lore.

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I think what ticks most people off about the lore is the bad faith stuff that's talked about in the lore thread. There's not so much lore discussion going on as "I don't like this part of the game, it's bad writing, I don't know what the devs were thinking or how anyone can like this story! This character is undoubtedly the most evil villain in any FF games ever!" If someone doesn't enjoy the story, that's fine, but acting like the story is objectively bad (when story enjoyment is a subjective thing), and that people who do like it or certain characters are somehow dumb for doing so, is going to get people riled.

i dont see whats wrong with making zodiark is mid tier boss/filler. i mean this is the same case with star wars right? they portray snke like bid bad boss and die midway of trilogy.

although in star wars case it got replaced by even shittier figure lol. in ff14 case though, i welcome the surprise/plot twist.

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Originally Posted by gumas

they portray snke like bid bad boss and die midway of trilogy.

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Which was heavily criticized and ruined any of the Sith storytelling for that trilogy.

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Originally Posted by Y2K21

Which was heavily criticized and ruined any of the Sith storytelling for that trilogy.

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I made that joke with my friends that Zodiark got Snok'd. Good laugh.

Now, I dont personally think this was a bad move. I just think it happened abit to soon. I like that DAMDaniel had a big scheme behind freeing Zodiark before he was fully reassembled and by doing so brought back the final days.
Its just.. .i do think it happened to quickly. Plus they didnt use The Final Days as much as they could have.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I think the problem is that typically, people chalking off a thread as bait or a troll is done whenever someone is critiquing the game. Its done deliberately in a way to try and stifle discussion which is just extremely rude tbh. Lets not act like this is some shocking thing, its happened plenty of times around these parts, specially when it comes to lore.

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If you think or feel discussion is being stifled by a silly little meme/joke/troll, it makes me wonder if you even care about the discussion, since your attention is on that picture.

The default action should be to ignore it. Maybe laugh if you humor in it...but it shouldnt be to get all defensive and derail the conversation to combat an insignificant shitpost

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

I think what ticks most people off about the lore is the bad faith stuff that's talked about in the lore thread. There's not so much lore discussion going on as "I don't like this part of the game, it's bad writing, I don't know what the devs were thinking or how anyone can like this story! This character is undoubtedly the most evil villain in any FF games ever!" If someone doesn't enjoy the story, that's fine, but acting like the story is objectively bad (when story enjoyment is a subjective thing), and that people who do like it or certain characters are somehow dumb for doing so, is going to get people riled.

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People who defend the story do this as well. Let's not pretend it's one-sided. ;) I personally don't care overly much if some people get riled. It is simply the nature of such things. But equally I'm not too interested in being lectured by them, either. The ignore function exists for a reason, where I feel there's really no productive use being made of my time by engaging the person. The story was acknowledged to be even more morally grey than SHB by Yoshi P in the lead up to EW, and there are lots of aspects of it that are also "grey" in the sense of ambiguities or uncertainties or what-ifs cropping up with some parts of the lore. This is the sort of thing that will spawn disagreement.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

People who defend the story do this as well. Let's not pretend it's one-sided. ;) I personally don't care overly much if some people get riled. It is simply the nature of such things. But equally I'm not too interested in being lectured by them, either. The ignore function exists for a reason, where I feel there's really no productive use being made of my time by engaging the person. The story was acknowledged to be even more morally grey than SHB by Yoshi P in the lead up to EW, and there are lots of aspects of it that are also "grey" in the sense of ambiguities or uncertainties or what-ifs cropping up with some parts of the lore. This is the sort of thing that will spawn disagreement.

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No such thing a perfect story. A story that is good to one person is trash to another.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

If you think or feel discussion is being stifled by a silly little meme/joke/troll, it makes me wonder if you even care about the discussion, since your attention is on that picture.

The default action should be to ignore it. Maybe laugh if you humor in it...but it shouldnt be to get all defensive and derail the conversation to combat an insignificant shitpost

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When we already have enough shitposting to worry about with lore discussion, it gets old extremely quickly. Especially because it can always be chalked off as “a little joke” when in reality it might not have even been that. Typically people use “it was just a joke” as a defensive mechanism when they’re called out on something. There are people that truly believe some genuine posts are trolls because they can’t fathom there being criticism for the game. I’m not sure how you gather that someone not wanting an off topic meme or “joke” in a discussion thread equates to not caring about the discussion. There’s other topics for you to joke around in, a discussion thread typically isn’t one of them. This is one of the problems that’s been rampant on this forum lately. It’s strange that it’s typically only done in criticism threads though is my point. Which is why i brought up the stifling discussion. It seems like people only ever post it in hopes of just writing off any form of criticism as trolling. That’s completely counterproductive for criticism.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I mean, i disagree, i think it should be measured that way because why have a character who has no plot relevance? All for a "maybe in the future"? Like how maybe in the future theyll finally bring back her life draining plot?If a character isnt doing anything for the plot, then at that point theyre stale and need to be replaced. Its just another part of the whole plot armor bias situation. She did nothing for the plot this expansion, why have her continue to stick around when that position can be given to another character that could actually have some worth and relevance.They did it for lyse. She did what she had to do and they wrote her out when she wasnt contributing much. The same should go for yshtola. She contributed very little.

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Oh didn't see this little knack. But respectfully, I disagree here. A character with no or little plot relevance is no meaningful death at all. Except death for deaths own sake. Deaths need to be meaningful. Just take a comparison between the deaths of Haurchefant, Papalymo and Moenbryda. They all died giving their lives for something they believed in. Or to stop or prevent something. Now take the comparison with the Satrap of Radz-at-han. Dude got eaten alive and practically nobody bats an eyelid barring the simple fact of we're a god-killing, ascian-slaying machine so we should have done more. Killing characters off for the sake of killing them off is very meaningless death and just bad writing. - But I guess this would be a matter of opinionated debate.

I just feel like the argument being made could apply to practically any given scion, really. On the other side of the coin, I could just see a conversation such as this in an alternative universe wherein someone dies and then people complain that the death wasn't impactful or meaningful enough.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Oh didn't see this little knack. But respectfully, I disagree here. A character with no or little plot relevance is no meaningful death at all. Except death for deaths own sake. Deaths need to be meaningful. Just take a comparison between the deaths of Haurchefant, Papalymo and Moenbryda. They all died giving their lives for something they believed in. Or to stop or prevent something. Now take the comparison with the Satrap of Radz-at-han. Dude got eaten alive and practically nobody bats an eyelid barring the simple fact of we're a god-killing, ascian-slaying machine so we should have done more. Killing characters off for the sake of killing them off is very meaningless death and just bad writing. - But I guess this would be a matter of opinionated debate.

I just feel like the argument being made could apply to practically any given scion, really.

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The difference between a Scion dying and a "literally who" character dying is that the impact upon the player and story is much higher for the prior -- and usually drives more of the narrative/shifts narrative. Thats why things like the previous three have been impactful as the story was impacted upon their sacrifices (which is kind of the whole point of that dungeon in EW).

If you have an entire build up by Yoshi-P saying "anyone could die" with a story focused around the apocalypse -- with the only tear jerking is showing either brand new characters or faceless NPCs dying, then no one gives a shit.

Pretty much enjoyed the story from start to finish. Going into Endwalker I was sure there is no way they stick the landing. But to be perfectly honest I think they did a good job.

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Originally Posted by Y2K21

The difference between a Scion dying and a "literally who" character dying is that the impact upon the player and story is much higher for the prior -- and usually drives more of the narrative/shifts narrative. Thats why things like the previous three have been impactful as the story was impacted upon their sacrifices (which is kind of the whole point of that dungeon in EW).

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Sure I'll give that point, but the circumstances surrounding each of the appointed deaths weren't exactly just "Oh hey, death.". Like I said (and I'll expand), if Y'shtola had taken the place of the Satrap, then this discussion would not be about the absence of the death surrounding a Scion, but simply how anticlimactic said death was. Killing off Y'shtola because she presented little narrative relevance current would be meaningless. By contrast, Y'shtola dying trying to, or actually bringing about travel between reflections would be meaningful. A character death should be meaningful both because of what they believed, the circumstance surrounding their death, and not simply just because entirely of who that character is.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Sure I'll give that point, but the circumstances surrounding each of the appointed deaths weren't exactly just "Oh hey, death.". Like I said (and I'll expand), if Y'shtola had taken the place of the Satrap, then this discussion would not be about the absence of the death surrounding a Scion, but simply how anticlimactic said death was.

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No one is saying they should kill them off for lulz -- we are saying that there are enough Scions with completed story arcs where an impactful death to SELL the story of the expansion is a useful tool (see Papalymo, Ysayle,). You build the story to this moment and pay it off. You have an entire narrative built around "anyone could transform and die" with no one of note doing either.

While I was fully expecting not all of the scions to make it over the finish line I have to ask does a character's death really make a story more meaningful/better?
I'd argue that in a lot of stories killing of main characters during the final moments of a story is usually only done to create a reaction or go for a cheap emotional impact.

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Originally Posted by Y2K21

No one is saying they should kill them off for lulz -- we are saying that there are enough Scions with completed story arcs where an impactful death to SELL the story of the expansion is a useful tool (see Papalymo, Ysayle,). You build the story to this moment and pay it off. You have an entire narrative built around "anyone could transform and die" with no one of note doing either.

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At this point I'm not even entirely sure if we're disagreeing.. My point was inferring the very point in your post (emboldened). On the latter point, Any given character can transform and die, but given the history of each individual scion I hardly find that the scions would just simply roll over in the face of despair. People only transformed in the face of despair. This narrative works well for less substantial characters, but for characters such as the scions? It's very anticlimactic

I quite like the story of endwalker even though it does seem a bit short. The music and ambiance of the last zone and dungeon is sooooo nice. Meteion voicing over on top of the awesome music and awesome dungeon of Dead End is just perfectly done. So excited for the new arc to start in 6.1 :)

TBH I was hoping Meteion would come back with us and become a developed character in the future like they are doing with the twins. Maybe in the future they do bring her and Zenos back.

Zenos is I think one of the character that was severely underutilized this xpac. He basically did not do anything except at the end lol. So hopefully they flesh him out more in the future. After building him up to be that super competitive person that even gained the power of an ascian I did not feel the end justified the end of his character. It's like it was just all thrown away haha

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Originally Posted by Miiu

While I was fully expecting not all of the scions to make it over the finish line I have to ask does a character's death really make a story more meaningful/better?
I'd argue that in a lot of stories killing of main characters during the final moments of a story is usually only done to create a reaction or go for a cheap emotional impact.

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When an expansion is advertised with the main dev constantly saying things like “no one is safe, anyone can die,” It sets a precedent. The problem here is this is an apocalypse that once decimated the entire planet and not even the god-like ancients could escape from unscathed. Yet somehow this time everyone survives. It reduces the impact significantly. I’ll ask you a question as well then. Does major plot armor really make a story more meaningful/better? Does dropping a major plot point really make it better just so a character can continue living?(Yshtola). As for cheap emotional impact this was literally Ultima Thule. With them using emotional manipulation with the scions despite most people knowing they weren’t going to die lmao. The problem here as well is, their decision on not killing off any of the characters but in fact, resurrecting them literally goes against the themes of this expansion. People like to preach about the themes that the writers put forward, yet don’t seem to acknowledge the contradictions that the main cast faces with that die to their unwillingness to kill anyone off. The main song is literally “loss,fire,and faith.” Yet where’s the loss here? There’s a reason they have to keep reusing the same 3-4 characters every single expansion. It’s because it’s been 3 expansions since we lost anyone substantial. Now i’m not saying btw, that they just need to randomly kill someone off, and i think that’s pretty apparent. But considering this expansion was probably as high stakes as this game is ever going to get, there wouldn’t have been a better tie to do so. Both in this expansion and shadowbringers. We’ve lost characters to far less than that of say, two unsundered beings or a literal end of world apocalypse. When you prattle on about how dangerous this event is, and how no one is safe, but then everyone survives with literally no consequences whatsoever. That’s when it’s a problem.As far as the despair goes, i do find it a bit unrealistic that none of the scions gave into despair for even a second. Especially the twins, considering they’re younger. Even if it meant no one dying, at least seeing one or two of them struggle with despair, struggling with their feelings would’ve been interesting. At this point they all feel like cardboard cutouts.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

Y’shtola does not need plot armor, she has marketing armor. She is the FFXIV mascot used in other SE games and in advertising. She is just as immortal as us and the only thing that will happen to her is a nice cozy retirement when the time comes, no death, no harm.

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Tbf, this rings a bit hollow considering Noctis is the ffxv mascot for marketing and uh...you know.

It kind of would have been cooler that instead of everyone else pointlessly dying- we died.

Maybe they could have brought us back in the end...but it would have been interesting for once to watch an encounter as a spirit with the Scions fighting and us giving them Aetheric support somehow.... and maybe Azems crystal shattering and us coming back, or who knows? (Isn't that the point? We cheer them on and keep them from losing hope?- Maybe Metion could even bring us back)

This is the end to our whole "Chosen by Hydalyn" arc... so a symbolic death of our character might have been interesting somehow. It also shows how we didn't do it alone. Could have also been a cool ending fight cinematic. Plus it reminds me of the line from Answers:

In the same fleeting moment thou must live, die and know

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

This is the end to our whole "Chosen by Hydalyn" arc... so a symbolic death of our character might have been interesting somehow.

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I half expected everything to fall to absolute sheit and Hydaelyn say something along the lines of "Maybe 300th time is the charm" I'm glad they didn't go that route.

I do like your example though. You pay the ultimate sacrifice to end everything. It'd be cool to watch a [game redacted] type scene where the main character dies and the scions work to bring you back. It's cliché but I'd take it over all the barriers Endwalker thrashed through.

I wouldn't mind if you die in the past to prevent it all from happening. Then everything Endwalker- is a historical time loop, and the next expansion lets them start all over with familiar faces.

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Originally Posted by Misutoraru

To add insult to injury Hermes is the head of testing facility that determines if their creations are suitable to be release into their world

A project with no peer reviews,
Have little knowledge in that field,
Not to mention Hermes have not equipped/trained meterion for the mission
The whole Elpis/Hermes plot is one of the biggest let down in EW for me

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I shared your dissatisfaction with that. It's not like these sort of processes or considerations went unheeded in their other facilities, e.g. they had a Bureau for reviewing creations, the Anyder facilities were overseen by the city authorities, and Pandaemonium has stringent security features to destroy it in the event anything goes wrong. Emet rather quickly notices Hermes wasn't well suited to working there, so doubles down on recommending he accept the nomination to get out of that environment. I almost get the impression that they didn't want such things interfering with the narrative they wanted to go with, and so just hope people look past it.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I mean, i disagree, i think it should be measured that way because why have a character who has no plot relevance? All for a "maybe in the future"? Like how maybe in the future theyll finally bring back her life draining plot?If a character isnt doing anything for the plot, then at that point theyre stale and need to be replaced. Its just another part of the whole plot armor bias situation. She did nothing for the plot this expansion, why have her continue to stick around when that position can be given to another character that could actually have some worth and relevance.They did it for lyse. She did what she had to do and they wrote her out when she wasnt contributing much. The same should go for yshtola. She contributed very little.

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Her popularity is also a bit less pronounced than it used to be if the recent JP fan poll was anything to go by. Other than the twins, Urianger and, for whatever reason, G'raha, the Scions aren't even foremost amongst the most popular characters anymore, so we might see less hesitation to have them take a backseat or even die, although if that was to have an impact, EW probably would've been a more pivotal point for it.

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Originally Posted by Millybonk

Venat, who hasn't had her memory wiped + still remembers you from being in Elpis, quite apparently doesn't lift a finger to learn about Dynamis herself or to mobilize the other ancients to end Meteion then and there, and instead chooses to turn herself into Hydaelyn, sunder the world and the inhabitants, thereby forcing them to live with and face despair and gambling that their resilience against despair might be enough to face Meteion one day

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When she sacrificed herself to make Hydaelyn, she gave up all the research capabilities that Venat had. Hydaelyn was not Venat. She was a single-minded primal imbued with some of Venat's memories and the strongest aspect of Venat's will (which at the time was to pave the way for future generations to permanently end the threat). There's a huge difference there. She was under a pretty big time crunch, with the world ending, and all. All she did was to set some wheels in motion and hope for the best. Hydaelyn wasn't capable of doing the research that you're suggesting she should have done.

As you said, she decided that rallying the other ancients to fight Meteion was futile for whatever reason. I, too, wish that they could have provided a better explanation for that, but if nothing else, we can chalk it up to sheer panic.

If Meteion was introduced in an earlier expansion, I would have liked EW’s story a bit more. As it is, it’s been my least favorite story of all of FFXIV since 2.0. That opinion has not gone off well with a couple of friends, not that I particularly care in the long run. I can see how they rushed a bit with this expansion, and I understand why, but that doesn’t change how I felt about the story. It didn’t suck, but it wasn’t the best.

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Originally Posted by Miiu

While I was fully expecting not all of the scions to make it over the finish line I have to ask does a character's death really make a story more meaningful/better?
I'd argue that in a lot of stories killing of main characters during the final moments of a story is usually only done to create a reaction or go for a cheap emotional impact.

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To me, it's not so much that I need a character to die to feel invested in the story, it's more like they are so unwilling to do so, that if a scion is put into a threatening position later, I won't feel as much about it because I know they aren't going to actually kill them. So it dampens the mood / dampens the stakes later on down the line.

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Originally Posted by Garet

Maybe in the future they do bring her and Zenos back.

Zenos is I think one of the character that was severely underutilized this xpac. He basically did not do anything except at the end lol. So hopefully they flesh him out more in the future.

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No.
No, no, no.
Noooooooooooooo.

I've had more than enough "Zenos is really cool, we should resurrect him and shove him down the throats of the audience."

He wasn't even a good antagonist in Stormblood, and he's aged like fine unpasteurized milk since then.

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

When she sacrificed herself to make Hydaelyn, she gave up all the research capabilities that Venat had. Hydaelyn was not Venat. She was a single-minded primal imbued with some of Venat's memories

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When is this stated? Because as we know with Elidibus, sacrificing to become the heart, they are still them. He was able to leave Zodiark and still converse with people. I don’t see why she would have lost all of her research capabilities.

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Originally Posted by HappyHubris

No.
No, no, no.
Noooooooooooooo.

I've had more than enough "Zenos is really cool, we should resurrect him and shove him down the throats of the audience."

He wasn't even a good antagonist in Stormblood, and he's aged like fine unpasteurized milk since then.

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Yep, and it's actually funny that even Yoshida in that recent radio interview was like "Yeah.. we didn't know what to do with him so we just kind of stuck him in there because he had to"

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Originally Posted by HappyHubris

No.
No, no, no.
Noooooooooooooo.

I've had more than enough "Zenos is really cool, we should resurrect him and shove him down the throats of the audience."

He wasn't even a good antagonist in Stormblood, and he's aged like fine unpasteurized milk since then.

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thank you for finding this beatiful words to describe the total .... that was zenos.

even if i didn't despised zenos with a passion (and boy do i) i really don't get why people want him back... i mean even freaking zenos didn't want any redemption or whatnots.

so as someone that hates the character, let him rest. but to those that like him ? still let him fucking rest... dude wanted his one glorious battle to burn his life away and he got it, Zenos literally got the one thing he wanted all his life so just let it go, dude had a ton of screentime telling us what exactly he wanted and in the end he got exactly that. i really don't get why people that claim to love the character want to turn him into this deep and complex being when even the guy himself quite literally just wanted to be accomodated in his single mindedness and get some fun out of it, which he got.

I don't mind Zodiark, I also don't mind the pet project with Dynamis. But the fact that they did not elaborate a bit more on what Venat did after we left is sad. I really wish they showed a scene where she did try to work on things but for some reason it was impossible because no one knew how Dynamis works... but I realized it would make no sense as they only lost 1 day of memory all together and Hermes was already working on Dynamis before so he would have the basic knowledge to start a project team to work on a solution. Now it felt like Venat is just a mean biatch for testing the poepl like all Ascians seem to be doing... it feels like she just decided herself the full fate of h er people... this is not okay!


I also did not like how Zenos was just standing there most of the time. Doing literal nothing. I liked the fight at the end but it felt a lil underwhelming. But at least his story is now done, hopefully.

I have overall mixed feelings on the story as someone who recently started as a sprout in patch 5.4 following the hype. ShB was really good to the point I bought EW despite my policy on not buying games at release.

I dunno why the Flood of Light was scarier than the literal Final Days itself. Is it because everyone just casually says Final Days like it's nothing? Or is it because Blasphemies are way too few in the main story, even in Role quests it's usually only a select few people that are infected with it. Compared to let's say Sin Eaters who kill people left and right while also threatening your character to become one. Final boss also feels meh for some reason, is it because she was introduced this late, or she wasn't eldritch enough despite harboring most of civilization's despair. Neo Exdeath's 3D model raid had a more menacing appearance imo.

True to FFIV references, the characters also have fake out sacrifices for some reason. I also have a distaste for Zenos's character as a whole and that one body swap plot which amounted to nothing. Although for some parts that I liked, I like that one hype travel to Garlemald, the rush to Zodiark.

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Originally Posted by Awarewolf

If Meteion was introduced in an earlier expansion, I would have liked EW’s story a bit more. As it is, it’s been my least favorite story of all of FFXIV since 2.0. That opinion has not gone off well with a couple of friends, not that I particularly care in the long run. I can see how they rushed a bit with this expansion, and I understand why, but that doesn’t change how I felt about the story. It didn’t suck, but it wasn’t the best.

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While Meteion herself wasn't introduced, the noise causing the Final Days was introduced in a previous expac. We just didn't know what was causing it until EW.

And honestly, while Meteion may have been the physical body of the end villain, she wasn't actually the villain herself. We were fighting instead against a concept, the thought that life is meaningless, worthless and that there is no point to living. FIghting against the despair, anger and anguish of who knows how many dead and dying worlds. Meteion was just kind of a vessel for that.

As for the other posts about Venat, we really don't know what she did between the time we left and the time she and her followers created Hydalaen. We have to infer things from what we learned in ShB and from what her personality was like in 6.0. I know for some, it sucks having to fill in the gaps, but it's also what makes the story intriguing. We have huge gaps in our own history on why certain events happened and history that's been changed through the years by stories being twisted. Not knowing what happened allows us to draw our own conclusions.

For me, given Venat's personality, I'd think she'd do almost everything in her power to prevent the Final Days from happening, but not knowing how the future up to that plays out or what events might lead to them, it makes it difficult for her to move much. For all she knew, telling the Convocation may have been the very thing that caused the Final Days. It's one of the traps of time travel. There are no easy answers and why she probably felt she needed to keep it close to the vest. But she did have her supporters, some of whom I'm sure she brought into the fold. I feel she thought the Sundering was the only option left to make sure life continued as she just believed the Ancients would repeat the same folly over and over until they were all dead. She herself said it would some extremely powerful reason for her to become Hydalaen. I'd say the belief that your race is driving headlong towards the destruction of all life on the planet is a pretty big motivator.

Venat not doing anything is a giant plothole. Just tell them... they would believe it. Then get all the gang together, build an Imperium-like spaceship (Ancients should've been able to pull it off), follow the GPS tracker from Venat and Exterminatus the hell out of Ultima Thule before Meteion had the time to prepare.

Also, you really want to tell me that a giant memory wiping device didn't record what and whom it operated on?

But I get it. We anime. So emotion, much tears. I just hope further stories will be a bit more logical, because this stuff falls apart the moment you activate your brain.

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Originally Posted by Shinimas

Venat not doing anything is a giant plothole. Just tell them... they would believe it. Then get all the gang together, build an Imperium-like spaceship (Ancients should've been able to pull it off), follow the GPS tracker from Venat and Exterminatus the hell out of Ultima Thule before Meteion had the time to prepare.

Also, you really want to tell me that a giant memory wiping device didn't record what and whom it operated on?

But I get it. We anime. So emotion, much tears. I just hope further stories will be a bit more logical, because this stuff falls apart the moment you activate your brain.

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So, emotions bad, logic good. Anime, bad. ������ Got it. I bet you're just a joy when watching movies.

And yeah, they would believe her, maybe? We don't know if they would. We don't know how Hermes would react. Again, telling them might be what sets off the fear leading to the Final Days in the first place.

Also, as beings of basically pure Aether, the Ancients couldn't reallly reach Meteion or fight her. Her realm is pure Dynamis, which the Ancients couldn't manipulate. Also, they needed massive amounts of Aether just to power the ship from a thousand thousand years of gathered energy from the Mother crystal. Chances are, the Ancients would probably have had to sacrifice many of their number just to power the engines. Third, there's the personality of most of the Ancients. They have no clue how to overcome despair. They never dealt with it. They couldn't even recognize the depression in Hermes, much less have a way to treat it.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

It’s strange that it’s typically only done in criticism threads though is my point. Which is why i brought up the stifling discussion. It seems like people only ever post it in hopes of just writing off any form of criticism as trolling. That’s completely counterproductive for criticism.

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This is correct.....and it often is "just a little joke" which is why it should be Ignored. Its just trolling, so why are you giving it attention instead of just having your conversation?
A stupid shitpost joke/meme only has the power to stifle a discussion, if you let it.
Dont try to combat something insignificant and get all bent out of shape and defensive over nothing important, and carry on with your discussion.