The MSQ Endwalker Trial Bosses are WAY too hard for newer players to FFXIV

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Originally Posted by kaynide

I hope you rekindle some interest, but if it’s not fun, you really shouldn’t force yourself.

That said, I don’t think this is a you problem here- they tried to do a lot of different things in Endwalker (and to be fair, each expansion). A lot of times things just don’t work and are tweaked to be easy once the expansion is old. In EW, they tried many very new ways to play and a big problem I would argue is the directions were unclear or just straight bad on how to do it.

Fortunately they are far and few between, but they are draining! I distinctly remember the solo fight against Zenos in Yanxia being a burn out for me. Took way too long… I thought “oh ok, it’ll end when I get him to 90% I guess….” Nope….

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Yeah - it is definitely more a 'me' problem and I was certainly never "callling for major nurfs" as the post previous to this states (although I'll acknowledge the comment wasn't directed toward me specifically).

Anyway, I think I'll continue this discussion in a thread I created to too long ago, which was more specific to this issue being around me being apallingly bad at the game rather than this being some game-related issue.

The pre-Endwalker game has also one problem, that if you have enemy contact, then you always solve it via killing the enemies. Endwalker is the first expansion, where there are some missions, which you can only solve by avoiding enemies. And some players seem to be overhelmed by it because they have never done it before. But it is not only a FF14 problem. In maaaany other games the players are very unhappy when they are suddenly in a not usual environment. You had the same in WoW WotLK in an instance called The Oculus. The last boss was a flying dragon and you had to ride a friendly dragon to kill him. The dragon, you got, disabled your class abilities but gave you some new abilities. And you had to navigate in 3D because you could fly up and down. And the players hated this instance sooo much. Because riding the dragon was so different. They demanded in the forums, that this instance should be removed from the random pool of the dungeon finder. And it was normal, that if you landed in this instance via the dungeon finder, then from 5 players 3 players immediately left. Blizzard has never made such instances again.


Cheers

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Yeah - it is definitely more a 'me' problem and I was certainly never "callling for major nurfs" as the post previous to this states (although I'll acknowledge the comment wasn't directed toward me specifically).

Anyway, I think I'll continue this discussion in a thread I created to too long ago, which was more specific to this issue being around me being apallingly bad at the game rather than this being some game-related issue.

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Well, take heart at least that my wife is in the same boat as you. Our group all love her, but she is near dead weight when it comes to anything new. She needs to take a lot of time to get comfortable and gets easily upset or grumpy at failing mechanics. If you did that solo thing in Garlemald, she cleared it after 3 days, and once clear she took a week break.

And that is 100% ok. The good news is that for her (and you), the game does gradually just get easier with tweaks in patches, or just being geared above the content. No worries, and good luck!

Actually, If you go through all of the normal dungeons from top to toe... you'll see most of the mechanics in the game. And you'll find that it is rather interesting how the battle developers implement them into the trials, extremes or ultimates. It always take time to understand things. Practise practise practise!!!

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

The pre-Endwalker game has also one problem, that if you have enemy contact, then you always solve it via killing the enemies. Endwalker is the first expansion, where there are some missions, which you can only solve by avoiding enemies. And some players seem to be overhelmed by it because they have never done it before. But it is not only a FF14 problem. In maaaany other games the players are very unhappy when they are suddenly in a not usual environment. You had the same in WoW WotLK in an instance called The Oculus. The last boss was a flying dragon and you had to ride a friendly dragon to kill him. The dragon, you got, disabled your class abilities but gave you some new abilities. And you had to navigate in 3D because you could fly up and down. And the players hated this instance sooo much. Because riding the dragon was so different. They demanded in the forums, that this instance should be removed from the random pool of the dungeon finder. And it was normal, that if you landed in this instance via the dungeon finder, then from 5 players 3 players immediately left. Blizzard has never made such instances again.


Cheers

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I do not like to play survival games, so i do not like survival game content in a mmorpg what i cannot avoid while leveling. Not for nothing there was a easy version added at in from cold so the survival game aspect is gone.


And the problem in WoW Wotlk with Oculus is the control of the dragons what is very bad designed.

I agree they are pretty hard especially first time running it, but you can easily be carried by more experienced players or learn the fight with practice.

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Originally Posted by Loonies

I do not like to play survival games, so i do not like survival game content in a mmorpg what i cannot avoid while leveling. Not for nothing there was a easy version added at in from cold so the survival game aspect is gone.


And the problem in WoW Wotlk with Oculus is the control of the dragons what is very bad designed.

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Kind of off topic, but this is a thing in a lot of games. Ark:Survival Evolved suffers from this as well in their later expansions. Like, we have a fairly solid core game, but they somehow jam in a "Starfox" minigame, that doesn't even match the controls of normal flying, let alone really explain what you're supposed to do.

I appreciate these games trying things out...but if they're going to do something like this, they need to test it a LOT more. In FFXIV's case, In from the Cold could have been FANTASTIC, if the devs just, I dunno, played some zombie games... or Assassin's Creed, or Horizon Zero Dawn and just mimic'd the stealth/scrounging bits of it.

All they needed to do was:
1) say "You're objective is to go to X"
2) Remove all fake barriers. Allow ANY means of getting to X.
3) Give multiple routes- stealth cat-and-mouse; Working with intractable environmental stuff (set explosives?); Cat-walk-jumping puzzle over enemies; or, yes, straight up fighting our way through carefully (and waste time scrounging meds)

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Originally Posted by Mika_Zahard

You think EW MSQ bosses are hard? Nabriales would like a word with you.

In 2022 he's still wiping unprepared people, and those who refuse to perform properly..

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Steps of Faith in 2.55 was harder than Nabriales and wipe many, MANY groups. Not brainded like now.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Kind of off topic, but this is a thing in a lot of games. Ark:Survival Evolved suffers from this as well in their later expansions. Like, we have a fairly solid core game, but they somehow jam in a "Starfox" minigame, that doesn't even match the controls of normal flying, let alone really explain what you're supposed to do.

I appreciate these games trying things out...but if they're going to do something like this, they need to test it a LOT more. In FFXIV's case, In from the Cold could have been FANTASTIC, if the devs just, I dunno, played some zombie games... or Assassin's Creed, or Horizon Zero Dawn and just mimic'd the stealth/scrounging bits of it.

All they needed to do was:
1) say "You're objective is to go to X"
2) Remove all fake barriers. Allow ANY means of getting to X.
3) Give multiple routes- stealth cat-and-mouse; Working with intractable environmental stuff (set explosives?); Cat-walk-jumping puzzle over enemies; or, yes, straight up fighting our way through carefully (and waste time scrounging meds)

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If this content, like any other non mmorpg content, is in the gold saucer i would be ok with that because its optional. But survival game content what cannot be skipped i dont need in a mmorpg. There are many survival games out there if someone really likes that.

Story telling is very good in FF14, but there is no need for difficult content or non mmorpg content for story telling.

Unless you're doing EX or Savage, you can just let your teammates carry you

Normal mode doesn't usally wipe the team when someone fails mechanics. Since there's no enrage, constant death isn't much of a big deal.

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Originally Posted by Loonies

If this content, like any other non mmorpg content, is in the gold saucer i would be ok with that because its optional. But survival game content what cannot be skipped i dont need in a mmorpg. There are many survival games out there if someone really likes that.

Story telling is very good in FF14, but there is no need for difficult content or non mmorpg content for story telling.

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I would disagree here; It is a tradition in FF games to have mini games for better or for worse. While I would agree it was very badly done, the purpose of feeling helpless and extremely vulnerable outside of our body was very effective and arguably a better part of Endwalker. For the purpose of the story it was trying to convey (helplessness, mortality, despair), it was a success. It just had really artificial barriers and a really unintuitive means to get through it.

Great idea, terrible execution.

Moreover, EVERY expansion is about as difficult as Endwalker on release (arguably Heavansward was MORE difficult). The only reason past content feels so easy is because it's very old-hat to most players and/or our gear is way over the minimum iLVL for it.

Endwalker's content was for me some of the easiest of a new expansion outside of the "wtf do I do" moments.

IF you find this difficult, I advise skipping the new 18 man raid when it releases for about 2 weeks, because it will be Wipe City.

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Originally Posted by Loonies

If this content, like any other non mmorpg content, is in the gold saucer i would be ok with that because its optional. But survival game content what cannot be skipped i dont need in a mmorpg. There are many survival games out there if someone really likes that.

Story telling is very good in FF14, but there is no need for difficult content or non mmorpg content for story telling.

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There's not a single thing in this game during the MSQ that is difficult.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

I would disagree here; It is a tradition in FF games to have mini games for better or for worse. While I would agree it was very badly done, the purpose of feeling helpless and extremely vulnerable outside of our body was very effective and arguably a better part of Endwalker. For the purpose of the story it was trying to convey (helplessness, mortality, despair), it was a success. It just had really artificial barriers and a really unintuitive means to get through it.

Great idea, terrible execution.

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It was executed just fine. I don't understand what people found so difficult about it.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

There's not a single thing in this game during the MSQ that is difficult.



It was executed just fine. I don't understand what people found so difficult about it.

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For many people the execution of it wasnt fun. If you pin terrible execution solely on difficulty you are massively jumping to conclusions.

I agree with kaynide, the idea made sense from a story point of view. But the actual gameplay of it was extremely shallow. You had exactly 4 actions: the standard attack, bulwark, fight or flight, and the med kit. The stealth aspect didnt go beyond dont get seen. The barriers had no justification that made sense in the world.

In my opinion what made it feel extra bad in terms of gameplay was that it was right after another stealth duty that actually put thought into stealth mechanics.

My assumption is that is was never about the difficulty, people were just too annoyed by it to really look into how it works. I say that because it's laughably easy to evade the mobs that run around. It's just not super fun or engaging.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

There's not a single thing in this game during the MSQ that is difficult.

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There wasn't a single thing in this game during the MSQ that wasn't difficult for you.

You do not speak for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

There wasn't a single thing in this game during the MSQ that wasn't difficult for you.

You do not speak for everyone.

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If anyone finds anything in the MSQ difficult in this game then I have to wonder how they finish any video games at all. At best some of the trials are somewhat challenging at launch that require "some" effort, but those generally get nerfed extremely fast and most of the time are still easy enough to carry people through.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

Unless you're doing EX or Savage, you can just let your teammates carry you

Normal mode doesn't usally wipe the team when someone fails mechanics. Since there's no enrage, constant death isn't much of a big deal.

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They used to have more enrages in normal content, then sort of whistled that away over time. I kind of wish they would bring back a few even if it was semi-lax because encouragement to play better is always good for the long-term health of the game versus having more people 'just get by'.

One case in-point like DR Normal should not have that long of a instance clock with no enrages. They should have added some enrages, to fully encourage essence use. Versus people complaining about 1-hour+ clears. The savage mode has enrages, so people can't die too much and requires essences to even live.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

If anyone finds anything in the MSQ difficult in this game then I have to wonder how they finish any video games at all. At best some of the trials are somewhat challenging at launch that require "some" effort, but those generally get nerfed extremely fast and most of the time are still easy enough to carry people through.

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Again, by your standards.

I maintain - the fact that you find them easy doesn't suggest that everyone should.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

Unless you're doing EX or Savage, you can just let your teammates carry you

Normal mode doesn't usally wipe the team when someone fails mechanics. Since there's no enrage, constant death isn't much of a big deal.

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Just because (general) you can let people carry you doesn’t mean that you should. Even if it isn’t EX or Savage. Why is it up to the other 3/7/23 people grouped with you to pick up the slack for you?

Normal mode raids used to have enrage timers. They phased those out after Deltascape, and the result is wars of attrition that should, honestly, just be stopped with enrages. There gets to be a point where it’s a bit ridiculous at the amount of bodies you can just throw at a boss with little to no consequence. Some of the normal modes and alliance raid runs I’ve been in needed an enrage. Why are we still hacking away at Guardian after 20 minutes…..

I’ve always found it amusing that Alte Roite normal — arguably the easiest normal mode raid to have been ever created — has an enrage of roughly 10 minutes (it’s the same as his Savage version). Ultima in Orbonne also has a soft enrage. Once you hit roughly 14 minutes in, she starts spamming her tankbuster at every 10-15 seconds or so. I saw it once back when the raid was relevant. It was actually quite glorious.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

For many people the execution of it wasnt fun. If you pin terrible execution solely on difficulty you are massively jumping to conclusions.

I agree with kaynide, the idea made sense from a story point of view. But the actual gameplay of it was extremely shallow. You had exactly 4 actions: the standard attack, bulwark, fight or flight, and the med kit. The stealth aspect didnt go beyond dont get seen. The barriers had no justification that made sense in the world.

In my opinion what made it feel extra bad in terms of gameplay was that it was right after another stealth duty that actually put thought into stealth mechanics.

My assumption is that is was never about the difficulty, people were just too annoyed by it to really look into how it works. I say that because it's laughably easy to evade the mobs that run around. It's just not super fun or engaging.

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The actual gameplay was to avoid being seen so the small toolkit was pretty much irrelevant outside of screw ups. I thought it was done well, apart from the final area since I couldn't recognize a pattern to actually slip by undetected and ended up getting caught once as a result but it wasn't a hard instance at all and was nowhere near as bad as the Ranjit Fight with Thancred in ShB.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Again, by your standards.

I maintain - the fact that you find them easy doesn't suggest that everyone should.

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I'll bite. What exactly is difficult? Unless you have a physical limitation which is incredibly unfortunate, there's nothing, literally nothing about the MSQ that is difficult. 90% of the MSQ is walking around and talking and the other 10% is either solo events that have a difficulty selection and are made as simple as possible or running through dungeons/trials that you can be easily carried through.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Normal mode raids used to have enrage timers.

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That they did. The only one I can recall ever running into was with Brute Justice. Got wiped by that enrage more than once in normal mode.

Normal trials have enrage sometimes though. Final boss of ShB did. Final boss of EW does.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

I'll bite. What exactly is difficult? Unless you have a physical limitation which is incredibly unfortunate, there's nothing, literally nothing about the MSQ that is difficult. 90% of the MSQ is walking around and talking and the other 10% is either solo events that have a difficulty selection and are made as simple as possible or running through dungeons/trials that you can be easily carried through.

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Not exactly, unless having pretty poor eyesight (partially sighted in my right eye and long-sighted in my left, which impacts my hand-eye coordination to some degree) counts. And age isn't really on my side either - my reflexes, atop my hand-eye coordination issues, are not what they once were. However, I'm not generally one to complain about this rather longstanding issue which is why I didn't bring it up in the thread I created to discuss my struggle with aspects of the MSQ. I mean, despite hitting a wall a few times I have, somehow, managed to blunder my way through to the start of Endwalker.

That aside, I am pretty bad at the game and I do dislike the fact that, by some player's standards, it isn't okay to not have reached a certain standard by the time one reaches the level I'm at.

Which is again an unfortunate situation, but by general standards the game is easy. They can't build the game around every situation because if you make the game too simple you run risk of making people bored. That actually already happens with ARR with people getting bored before reaching level 30.

I don't really think its fair to bring in those situations either. I have pretty significant hearing loss in one ear, but I don't go to a FPS game forums and complain that the footsteps are too quiet and need to be made louder so I can hear enemies sneaking up on me. That would be unfair to the general balance of the game and to other players.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Which is again an unfortunate situation, but by general standards the game is easy. They can't build the game around every situation because if you make the game too simple you run risk of making people bored. That actually already happens with ARR with people getting bored before reaching level 30.

I don't really think its fair to bring in those situations either. I have pretty significant hearing loss in one ear, but I don't go to a FPS game forums and complain that the footsteps are too quiet and need to be made louder so I can hear enemies sneaking up on me. That would be unfair to the general balance of the game and to other players.

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I'm not asking for any adjustments to be made to the game. I agree - catering to a minority in that fashion wouldn't be of benefit to the majority.

However, I do still maintain that I dislike the idea that there is some fixed standard that players are supposed to have achieved by a certain point in the game. It seems as if the fact that my 'sprout' disappeared a few days ago means I am now supposed to be good at the game by default despite the fact that the absence of said sprout doesn't tell anyone anything about how long I've actually been playing.

Its a fair assumption though. The sprout is removed after 170 hours or after reaching a specific point in the story, which is usually after the first quest of current expansion. Either way, unless you turn it off manually players at that point have had over 100 hours of play time at that point and should have some level of competence. Again, your situation is the exception, but the general assumption should be acceptable for the general standard of play, especially since the game itself progressively teaches you each new mechanic throughout the expansions dungeons and trials within the MSQ.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

I'm not asking for any adjustments to be made to the game. I agree - catering to a minority in that fashion wouldn't be of benefit to the majority.

However, I do still maintain that I dislike the idea that there is some fixed standard that players are supposed to have achieved by a certain point in the game. It seems as if the fact that my 'sprout' disappeared a few days ago means I am now supposed to be good at the game by default despite the fact that the absence of said sprout doesn't tell anyone anything about how long I've actually been playing.

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As unfortunate as your circumstances are, they are specific to you and not the norm. The majority of players will not share these afflictions, so they are held to a standard that isn’t even that unreasonable. People don’t expect orange-parse level play in standard content. They expect a modicum of effort. I’ve been around for a while, and a lot of the complaints like the one in this thread do not come from a genuine standpoint of a player with disabilities or afflictions that are struggling. They come from players who expect everything to be “press X and instantly win”, and they will cry and stomp their feet when content is not nerfed to cater to their lack of desire to put forth effort to clear.

For the vast majority of players, once they no longer have a sprout, yes, they are expected to have a basic understanding of the game. They’re 80 levels and 100+ hours in. This isn’t a lofty standard.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

The majority of players will not share these afflictions, so they are held to a standard that isn’t even that unreasonable. People don’t expect orange-parse level play in standard content. They expect a modicum of effort.

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"hi first time" is literally a 100% effective bad-performance pass. You can complete the MSQ and no one will really judge you for getting carried your first time through, sprout icon or no.

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Originally Posted by SyphinAes

"hi first time" is literally a 100% effective bad-performance pass. You can complete the MSQ and no one will really judge you for getting carried your first time through, sprout icon or no.

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Mmm, it ultimately depends. “First time” won’t excuse a player in higher level content that doesn’t know their rotation or who is partially AFK. The most it can really excuse is deaths and mechanical errors. I’m fairly patient when it comes to people who say they are new to a dungeon or alliance raid or whatever—as long as I can see that they are trying. But I have had people say “first time”, and then proceed to barely do anything. AFK healers jumping in place or running back and forth for extended periods of time, DPS or tanks basically auto-attacking and not even doing a rotation. Heck, I’ve even had tanks in dungeons not even tank, and instead the DPS and healer do most of the tanking.

“First time” only excuses so much. It’s not a 100% bad performance pass.

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

The pre-Endwalker game has also one problem, that if you have enemy contact, then you always solve it via killing the enemies. Endwalker is the first expansion, where there are some missions, which you can only solve by avoiding enemies. And some players seem to be overhelmed by it because they have never done it before. But it is not only a FF14 problem. In maaaany other games the players are very unhappy when they are suddenly in a not usual environment. You had the same in WoW WotLK in an instance called The Oculus. The last boss was a flying dragon and you had to ride a friendly dragon to kill him. The dragon, you got, disabled your class abilities but gave you some new abilities. And you had to navigate in 3D because you could fly up and down. And the players hated this instance sooo much. Because riding the dragon was so different. They demanded in the forums, that this instance should be removed from the random pool of the dungeon finder. And it was normal, that if you landed in this instance via the dungeon finder, then from 5 players 3 players immediately left. Blizzard has never made such instances again.


Cheers

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So, they nerfed the Occulus boss. And people still abandoned.
Then they doubled the valor points (basically tomestone) rewards from the dungeon. And people still abandoned.
Then they added a unique mount, that only dropped from that dungeon. And people still abandoned.
Then they nerfed the boss AGAIN. And people still abandoned.
And then it was Cataclysm, and no one ever had to run the Occulus ever again.

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Originally Posted by SyphinAes

"hi first time" is literally a 100% effective bad-performance pass. You can complete the MSQ and no one will really judge you for getting carried your first time through, sprout icon or no.

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I will partially agree, but it depends on what level the content is.

If we're talking level 90 stuff, and the person is making zero effort after multiple pulls to follow the group/dodge mechanics, then there is no pass given. If they are actually trying to dodge, their rotation be damned, then I'll be a lot more lenient.

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

The pre-Endwalker game has also one problem, that if you have enemy contact, then you always solve it via killing the enemies. Endwalker is the first expansion, where there are some missions, which you can only solve by avoiding enemies.

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Stormblood had a quest in Kugane where we had to cross the city while dodging Sekiseigumi patrols.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Stormblood had a quest in Kugane where we had to cross the city while dodging Sekiseigumi patrols.

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Really? OK, i do not remember. But if so, it was one quest. In Endwalker there are more quests like this. :)



Cheers

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Mmm, it ultimately depends. “First time” won’t excuse a player in higher level content that doesn’t know their rotation or who is partially AFK. The most it can really excuse is deaths and mechanical errors. I’m fairly patient when it comes to people who say they are new to a dungeon or alliance raid or whatever—as long as I can see that they are trying. But I have had people say “first time”, and then proceed to barely do anything. AFK healers jumping in place or running back and forth for extended periods of time, DPS or tanks basically auto-attacking and not even doing a rotation. Heck, I’ve even had tanks in dungeons not even tank, and instead the DPS and healer do most of the tanking.

“First time” only excuses so much. It’s not a 100% bad performance pass.

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I simply don't define being partially AFK and not trying as "bad performance." To me bad performance is as you said - someone trying but failing for whatever reason.

To me being semi-AFK and lazy by practically only auto-attacking and refusing to move is just "leeching" and one of the few reasons I'd vote-kick someone.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

There's not a single thing in this game during the MSQ that is difficult.



It was executed just fine. I don't understand what people found so difficult about it.

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For me it was simply the weird placement of the red-dot-line borders, and it was not intuitive where to go; We started in the east side of town.. if the goal was to get out ASAP, I would have wanted to just exit the east side and skirt the outside of the city where the mobs were least dense. It did not make sense to have to go into the heart of the city and derp around fixing a reaper to blow up a hoard when I should have easily been able to just slip between buildings.

Again, not that it was difficult, it was just..derp.

All the need to do for me was (as I said earlier) remove all the dotted line barriers really. They could force me to move in some direction by simply putting impossible amounts of monsters, or just one of those big robots blocking the way.

Alternatively, they could have introduced the reaper at the start as the objective, then had us explore to find the parts. I was pretty good at avoiding monsters, so I didn't take chances messing with broken robots for med kits or whatever. By the time I got the the reaper, I had to backtrack significantly to find the fuel tank or whatever.

The real icing on the cake was the quicktime event at the very end. My wife thought she was done with it when it faded to black, then "REady!?" She was talking to me about the mission and by the time she realized there was a quick time she panicked and failed it. So.. she had to redo the whole thing.

The actual concept was good, the actual mechanics were fine. But it was horribly designed.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I simply don't define being partially AFK and not trying as "bad performance." To me bad performance is as you said - someone trying but failing for whatever reason.

To me being semi-AFK and lazy by practically only auto-attacking and refusing to move is just "leeching" and one of the few reasons I'd vote-kick someone.

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It's still bad performance.

Play how you want to play, if something makes you want to quit, quit.
It's a simple statement, and can come across crass to some, but as much as I want everyone and their grandma to experience this amazing story, it is still a game.
A game that values your time and respects your efforts, would you not respect the game in turn?
By not getting frustrated or disheartened at every little challenge the game throws at you?
If the answer to this is no, then with the most kindest words I can muster: please try a different game, one that fits your playstyle.

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Originally Posted by Shironeko_Narunyan

83 levels filled with "Speak with Alphinaud"?
That's some amazing experience right there.

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Originally Posted by Shironeko_Narunyan

Seriously, I'd be fine with a boss you can just oneshot. Better yet, put a button there to skip the fight, watch a cutscene,. problem solved.

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Originally Posted by Shironeko_Narunyan

Some people play this like an interactive movie or book, and why not?
Seriously, this is treading on "you have to play the game the way I say" territory.

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Originally Posted by Shironeko_Narunyan

The problem here is that, if you cannot finish this expansion, any future content will be barred, too. That means you effectively kick people out of the game. To what end, to make people happy who find it too easy? Make Extreme trials. Funny, they're already doing that, and another level above that even, for those who still find it too easy. So what's the problem? Make story-mode easy.

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While it is not OP, but a very responsive prominent person on this thread:
These are common takes from some one who is playing a game outside their play-style.
Watch a movie. You are not a player, you are an audience. Watch a Let'sPlay series.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Again, by your standards.

I maintain - the fact that you find them easy doesn't suggest that everyone should.

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And I maintain the fact that just because someone finds something difficult, doesn't make it actually difficult or need to be touched.

A reminder that the 4.1 solo mission, when it released, was complained about here by multiple players for being far too difficult of an encounter. And it was made worse by the fact that the echo did nothing. For some players, that was their road block, and they were not going to get passed it and demanded Square nerf the fight or else they would quit the game.

This solo mission... required a single button press. That's it. It had a dps check of 0. I know. I cleared it literally never attacking. It simply asked you to click a glowy button on your screen. There were ffxiv players that found that difficult. Would the correct response there be to weaken down said thing because some players couldn't manage a single button press? No, because in this scenario, that would mean you'd LITERALLY afk the solo mission. So Square left it alone. And surprise, people got by it, or, well... quit, apparently.

We don't have to make things easier just because somebody complained. There are times where they kind of make a point, Steps of Faith, as much as I hate how hard that was nerfed, did have a point that missing a single dragonkiller meant you were now waiting 15 minutes to wipe wasn't exactly fun. Did they have to go super ham on the boss's hp to where you needed none of them at all? No, personal opinion, but it still had at least a form of argument of "This is the first time you toy with this and failing once = super delayed wipe". We don't have things like that here now after that (unless your WAR just refuses to die, but that's not square coding doing that).

I can only imagine how some of these people would've reacted to on-release Shinryu, lmao. Zodiark is kinda tough for a main story trial (as tough as someone as good as me can find it, at least), but there are plenty of trials out there that were even worse for the playerbase at large. It's nothing new.

nop its a game not a hold your hand while making you feel special about a title or mount or some glowly weapon it suppose to be hard as hell to challange you

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Originally Posted by Nekokaori

nop its a game not a hold your hand while making you feel special about a title or mount or some glowly weapon it suppose to be hard as hell to challange you

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Which endwalker MSQ trial drops a glowy weapon or a mount?