Roleplay/Partyfinder Discrepancies & Policy Enforcement by GM's

Imagine GMs doing something about harmless RP party finders, and yet my servers crafting bot farm is still untouched. Absolutely insane

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Originally Posted by AnakhaSilver

Also noting: 18+ may not always be sex and brothels. I know a few murder mysteries I'd run that I'd keep 18+ just because they'll deal with heavy topics.

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This is true. While I am not part of the ERP community but as I think some people mentioned before, Bars and Taverns say they are 18+ because they want a more mature demographic in attendance of their venue. I can see where a filter of sort fails. I was just considering options to people who seem to denounce and treat people who write or participate in ERP as degenerates and such. Such content is easily ignorable if it's not their cup of tea, but according to a few posts in this forums, some people seemed to really get triggered by it just knowing it exists.

Returning to the topic though, a clarification or an update of the ToS to influence changes about Party Finder use should have been done before they take action against players.

Content and other PFs are already at the top while RP and "other" listings are at the bottom. All people have to do is stop scrolling.

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Originally Posted by Larkspen

For the players complaining about brothels in this game ... there are prostitutes and sex worker NPCs throughout the game. The Beehive exists. There's even dialogue between sex worker NPCs and another NPC where they are soliciting services and there is mention of STIs. Sex work and mention of it is canon in this game.

Furthermore, there are individuals who were sent to GM jail over advertising non-ERP venues, so let's keep the sex shaming out of this.

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You see, the problem for some is they forget that the game is Japanese, thus adheres to Japanese laws, customs and practices, whereas the age of consent in the US is 18, the age of consent in Japan (and for that matter Europe as well) is 16.

It's not unusual for Japanese and European teenagers to be exposed to content of a sexual allusion and "Smut" writing at 16, because the rest of the world outside the states treats their young adults...low and behold, as adults, once you're old enough to own a bank account and a card to that account under your name, you're old enough to be responsible and make decisions for yourself.

So, how did the game get it's teen rating in the US? quite simple

It's written form, it's not physically shown, there's no blood or gratuitous violence, it's not pornographic imagery.

So are these folks telling me, they never read a book with naughty description in it? with clear innuendos and allusions to such things?

I don't believe them and their crusade will turn fruitless, because let's be quite frank here.

Given the Majority Demographic of the constantly active player-base IS 18+ they're far more likely to go "you know what, let's just up the age rating" than potentially lose a large portion of their active and constant subscriber base because someone can't handle the word "Brothel".

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Originally Posted by jbram_2002

I feel like now is the time to set up a Discord server similar to Centurio Hunts or other servers. This would allow multiple venues to advertise outside of FF14 in one localized place. The more venues that join in on that server, the more visibility everyone would get.

It doesn't solve most of the issues presented where it feels like RP venues are being randomly and potentially unfairly targeted, but it would help create a place where the RP community could thrive and remain inside the boundaries of the TOS.

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These exist. But of course we still need to advertise their existence and bring people in and not everybody uses Discord and not everybody is going to have an awareness. PF is useful for all of those things.

Even then, with the hunt Discord, people can still advertise hunt parties going on and hunts that are up in the PF. But we don't even think it is against the ToS. This is the first it has been an issue in how many years? And with no warning it'd happen and nothing clear in the ToS that even suggested this is an issue. And it's all 1 GM.

It's perfectly possible for players to lie about their actual age, so simply putting a disclaimer for players to be over the age of eighteen before engaging in 'adult roleplay' is not enough.

So I've read quite a few of these posts and skimmed over the others in the now 29 (27 at the time I started reading) pages of discourse, and I'm probably just going to echo a lot of the sentiments already posted here. But, they pertain to me since I'm a roleplayer and my voice is just as valid even if I'm just repeating what other people have said.

To the people that are treating roleplayers like diseased lepers, what's the matter with you? Why should we have to be segregated out of the party finder so it can stay clean and pure? I wasn't aware this was the year 1950 and not 2021, so why are us roleplayers having to be forced out of your gated community when there's an "Other" tab that should be able to be justifiably used by those of us who make venues, bars, taverns, night clubs, and things that fall into the "Other" category?

I may not support ERP, but not all RP is ERP and that's a distinction that you need to make instead of making such blanket generalizations about what our subset of the community is all about. And even if there *is* ERP in the game, it's their business what they do with their time. Everyone likes to throw around the phrase "You don't pay my sub" so casually, so it can be easily applied here. You don't pay their sub, so who cares if they want to indulge in erotic roleplay? How does it hurt you? How does it adversely affect your XIV experience? The answer: It doesn't. It's doing nothing to harm the community even if you think it's cringey or inappropriate. It's not violating any legal issues or anything regarding illegal transactions of real world money, the buying and selling of accounts, or anything that falls under the category of what we're reporting when we use the "Report RMT Activity" function on our chat bar.

Roleplayers have just as much a right to exist in this game as raiders do, as casual players do, as AFK idlers that stand in Aetheryte Plazas all day showing off their glams, emotes, etc.

If you're SO worried about us "polluting" your precious party finder, then suggest a VIABLE solution that isn't the janky and nonfunctioning Fellowship system, because that doesn't work. Don't just witch hunt us like we're somehow ruining the game for you, because we're not. You can leave your hateful bigotry at the door, because it has no place here.

I can't understand this decision in any meaning. RPers are literally the ones, who will stay In your game till the very end. Lack of content? They don't care and don't complain, cuz they're creating their own content. Lack of Ultimates\Savages\Extremes, which about all try-harders always complain? They don't care! The drought between patches? You guessed it - RPers don't care! So it's truly a genius move - let's ban all people, who will pay subs for our game in any condition, making them mad, so they'll cancel their subs, and then...and what then? You'll have a player base, full of crying about 'lack of content' manbabies, who'll drop your game as soon, as they close another Savage. And, ofc, classics - tons of RMT advertising in PF - nobody cares. Someone inviting people to their bar in Kugane - start the fire!

It's especially funny and sad since the game is advertising this way:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...67/pQ87DwY.png

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Originally Posted by Jin-

Sad to see snowflakes reporting these ones and SE taking actions against them instead of the bots and raid run sellers

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Pretty much this.

https://i.imgur.com/Tdfmu9r.png

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Originally Posted by jbram_2002

I feel like now is the time to set up a Discord server similar to Centurio Hunts or other servers. This would allow multiple venues to advertise outside of FF14 in one localized place. The more venues that join in on that server, the more visibility everyone would get.

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These exist, and I've been in (and left) almost all of them. The problem I had with them, and where I find the in-game PF far superior, is that a Discord post has a 2500 character limit while a PF post has what? a 192 character limit? This forces advertisers to be concise. Discord event advertisement posts are often novels with several images and then links to websites and the venue's own Discord server. So, even if you had every RP venue / event coordinator in one Discord server (which never actually happens), you'd still never get a short, easy-to-scroll list like PF provides.

The real solution, if SE supports RP as they claim they do, is to add an RP tab to the Party Finder. If they want to police the content of those party finder posts, then that's fine by me, just as they police what is said in public channels, etc.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's perfectly possible for players to lie about their actual age, so simply putting a disclaimer for players to be over the age of eighteen before engaging in 'adult roleplay' is not enough.

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that's putting all the blame on adults just wanting a space to engage with other like minded adults and not the minors lying to access content they shouldn't be. people over 18 can get in serious trouble because of that and it's the minors fault.

They've come for our catboi cafes, lads.

These are dark times indeed.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

There's entire sites devoted to networking and finding partners for role-play in FFXIV. It doesn't necessarily need to be done through the party finder specifically.

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There's entire sites devoted to RMT, run-sellers and other shady activities in FFXIV, yet these are openly advertised in PF as well.
Now compare that to using PF to advertise RP venues and tell me which one is actually harmful to the game.
I'll give you a hint: Not RP.

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Originally Posted by SylviaKarsten

I may not support ERP, but not all RP is ERP and that's a distinction that you need to make instead of making such blanket generalizations about what our subset of the community is all about. And even if there *is* ERP in the game, it's their business what they do with their time. Everyone likes to throw around the phrase "You don't pay my sub" so casually, so it can be easily applied here. You don't pay their sub, so who cares if they want to indulge in erotic roleplay? How does it hurt you? How does it adversely affect your XIV experience? The answer: It doesn't. It's doing nothing to harm the community even if you think it's cringey or inappropriate. It's not violating any legal issues or anything regarding illegal transactions of real world money, the buying and selling of accounts, or anything that falls under the category of what we're reporting when we use the "Report RMT Activity" function on our chat bar.

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People can do everything they want in the game as long as they don't break the ToS and the ERP unfortunately is something that breaks it, now you can do it privately with your friend or partner or have a place where several people get together and do it but ALWAYS it has to be done secretly and this is what has generated a problem. Many people who do ERP ignore that but promote it to people who do not care or in places that should not.

I also have to remember the live letter that Yoshida dedicated to the RP / ERP community?

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's perfectly possible for players to lie about their actual age, so simply putting a disclaimer for players to be over the age of eighteen before engaging in 'adult roleplay' is not enough.

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Then that's a legal issue with a minor having access to a card that they shouldn't have access to in the first place. This is an issue to do with a greater problem with minors having unfettered access to the internet where there are far worse things they can look at, at the click of a mouse button which is what there's currently large litigation processes in place surrounding, because clearly parents are failing to use the provided filters and accounts to stop their children accessing things they shouldn't be.

Once the legal framework is put in place, you'll find that as a result there will be a lot less minors running around the internet at large and thus a lot less here. Parents failed to do the job that the law will have to do.

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Originally Posted by phnxrsngs

that's putting all the blame on adults just wanting a space to engage with other like minded adults and not the minors lying to access content they shouldn't be. people over 18 can get in serious trouble because of that and it's the minors fault.

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Yeah, usually we hold adults accountable instead of literal kids. Adults are the ones who should have the mature judgement and presence of mind not to get into sexual situations under circumstances where 1. They can't know the age of their partner and 2. It's explicitly prohibited by the terms of service.

Edit: I'm pretty sure I've unironically heard people arguing similar logic on episodes of To Catch A Predator

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's perfectly possible for players to lie about their actual age, so simply putting a disclaimer for players to be over the age of eighteen before engaging in 'adult roleplay' is not enough.

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But then the problem here is the person who chooses to lie. The game is not responsible for that nor is the person who let's say is posting an event, which is why interactions are not rated in game.

So in a sense, if you choose to engage in a PF for an obviously ERP thing or something and you are under-aged, that decision was made by the player, not the person who posted the PF.

So it's perfectly okay for RMT run sellers to openly abuse the party finder by spamming the roulettes section with RMT ads, but the second someone puts up a harmless RP venue advertisement in the hidden-away "other" section, now it's suddenly a problem. This is completely ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by jbram_2002

I feel like now is the time to set up a Discord server similar to Centurio Hunts or other servers. This would allow multiple venues to advertise outside of FF14 in one localized place. The more venues that join in on that server, the more visibility everyone would get.

It doesn't solve most of the issues presented where it feels like RP venues are being randomly and potentially unfairly targeted, but it would help create a place where the RP community could thrive and remain inside the boundaries of the TOS.

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Hi, I run the FFXIV RP Event Calendar. It only partially solves this issue because I've run into legal issues with advertising some of the more Adult Only events. But yes, there are many places where this already exists. The Calendar even has a discord bot to decentralize 'control' over who sees the info to get around the normal community gate keeping. There are a few other places that are more focused on the OOC events.

Still, party finder and in game advertisements need to happen to allow those new to the game / community to know about it. Word of mouth only goes so far.

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Originally Posted by jbram_2002

I feel like now is the time to set up a Discord server similar to Centurio Hunts or other servers. This would allow multiple venues to advertise outside of FF14 in one localized place. The more venues that join in on that server, the more visibility everyone would get.

It doesn't solve most of the issues presented where it feels like RP venues are being randomly and potentially unfairly targeted, but it would help create a place where the RP community could thrive and remain inside the boundaries of the TOS.

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This is unlikely to work because it would be virtually impossible to create a volunteer discord sever with impartial moderation in a community as drama-ridden as the FFXIV RP community. PF worked because it was more or less an unmoderated neutral ground.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Yeah, usually we hold adults accountable instead of literal kids. Adults are the ones who should have the mature judgement and presence of mind not to get into sexual situations under circumstances where 1. They can't know the age of their partner and 2. It's explicitly prohibited by the terms of service.

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First time I've greed with you. You are correct. It's not entirely the minor's fault if an adult sells them alcohol without carding them first. The adult gets in HUGE trouble as well.

Same applies here. You don't blame the underaged person when the ADULT engages in adult behavior with them without vetting their age.

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Originally Posted by Nayout

People can do everything they want in the game as long as they don't break the ToS and the ERP unfortunately is something that breaks it, now you can do it privately with your friend or partner or have a place where several people get together and do it but ALWAYS it has to be done secretly and this is what has generated a problem. Many people who do ERP ignore that but promote it to people who do not care or in places that should not.

I also have to remember the live letter that Yoshida dedicated to the RP / ERP community?

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I wasn't playing at the time, I'd imagine. I can't say I ever saw that.

I'm not trying to defend the ERP community as being so much permissible in regards to the ToS, because if it breaks the ToS then it breaks the ToS; that's what GMs should be enforcing but it's the people that are calling for the heads of every RPer with their torches and pitchforks, basically. Just whipping up people into a mob mentality to attack us all like we're all somehow part of the "problem."

I'm just saying that ERP isn't hurting other players the way they're making it sound. Someone is getting upset because they scroll to the bottom of party finder and see an ERP venue, and are morally outraged by it. If they want to report it because it violates ToS, fine! That's well within their rights to do so, but you cannot lump every RPer into the same category as those who violate ToS by indulging in ERP.

"Party finder".

It's like joining a dating app for the purpose of business opportunities.

I have no issue with peeps using PF other section for the purpose of RP and venues, but I find the arguments proposed kind of funny when the very purpose of party finder is stated in the name.

Can anyone offer a valid reason that isn’t based on personal opinion as to why RP venues should be banned from advertising in PF?

Because as it stands, no one in this 30+ page thread has offered anything tangible other than “I don’t like it.” And that’s not a valid reason considering you can just as easily ignore it.

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Originally Posted by MeiraStarborne

First time I've greed with you. You are correct. It's not entirely the minor's fault if an adult sells them alcohol without carding them first. The adult gets in HUGE trouble as well.

Same applies here. You don't blame the underaged person when the ADULT engages in adult behavior with them without vetting their age.

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They are vetted though, it requires a credit card or paypal account to pay a subscription fee, which minors cannot own.

It comes back to the problem of the parent, rather than paying attention to their kids, just handing over their card and letting them use a non-restricted account.

Try accessing this site on a brand new cellphone contract account where the cellphone provider has default restrictions in place and you need to verify to remove those restrictions, you will get "Site blocked, mature content" and redirected to home.

RPers should not have to go outside of the game to find venues and events. Discords and other websites for RP already exist, but if you are a new player interested in RP, how are you to find out about those if not for the PF ads? As people have discussed earlier in the thread, Fellowships and Linkshells aren't enough as they're very limited (and hard to come across without someone involved in them telling you about them). I've been playing since 2014 and RP ads in PF have always been there.

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Originally Posted by Taytay

Can anyone offer a valid reason that isn’t based on personal opinion as to why RP venues should be banned from advertising in PF?

Because as it stands, no one in this 30+ page thread has offered anything tangible other than “I don’t like it.” And that’s not a valid reason considering you can just as easily ignore it.

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I'd like to preface by saying I support an RP section in the PF.

However:

The idea behind party finder is that you're using it to join a party. When you go to an RP venue being advertised in PF, you don't join the party the person has hosted to do so. Often the party is locked to an impossible ilevel or some such. Ergo they are not using it for its intended purpose. This can of course also apply to run sellers and the like.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

They are vetted though, it requires a credit card or paypal account to pay a subscription fee, which minors cannot own.

It comes back to the problem of the parent, rather than paying attention to their kids, just handing over their card and letting them use a non-restricted account.

Try accessing this site on a brand new cellphone contract account where the cellphone provider has default restrictions in place and you need to verify to remove those restrictions, you will get "Site blocked, mature content" and redirected to home.

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This game is rated T for Teen. Teens play this game. Adults playing this game need to be mindful of that fact and be responsible for their actions and words. Period.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

They are vetted though, it requires a credit card or paypal account to pay a subscription fee, which minors cannot own.

It comes back to the problem of the parent, rather than paying attention to their kids, just handing over their card and letting them use a non-restricted account.

Try accessing this site on a brand new cellphone contract account where the cellphone provider has default restrictions in place and you need to verify to remove those restrictions, you will get "Site blocked, mature content" and redirected to home.

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You can also buy game time cards from many stores which do not require credit cards or other proof of age. There are people playing the game without parental consent due to the game's rating of 'Teen'. There is no actual age gating on the game.

This isn't an attack against RP in general, but rather the advertising in party finder. Can SE do better for social players? More, better, social features? Sure, but PF is simply no place for this.

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Originally Posted by Taytay

Can anyone offer a valid reason that isn’t based on personal opinion as to why RP venues should be banned from advertising in PF?

Because as it stands, no one in this 30+ page thread has offered anything tangible other than “I don’t like it.” And that’s not a valid reason considering you can just as easily ignore it.

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You're expecting too much from people who believe their opinions are "facts".

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

This isn't an attack against RP in general, but rather the advertising in party finder. Can SE do better for social players, sure? But PF is simply no place for this.

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I can sell items in the PF without any issue.

People can sell content clears without any issue.

People are selling FEET PICS without any issues.

This isn't about advertisement, clearly.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Yeah, usually we hold adults accountable instead of literal kids. Adults are the ones who should have the mature judgement and presence of mind not to get into sexual situations under circumstances where 1. They can't know the age of their partner and 2. It's explicitly prohibited by the terms of service.

Edit: I'm pretty sure I've unironically heard people arguing similar logic on episodes of To Catch A Predator

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You are doing ERP, when you do ERP or RP in general you do not ask personal data because it is disrespectful because you are "taking" the role of a person who is not you, the same with ERP when you do ERP you do it with your characters not with your person and that is a very common problem with people who do ERP in general, they don't know how to distinguish "RP" from something real.

This is not a problem in this game, it is a problem in general with people who do these things, many people use ERP as an excuse to have sexual encounters.

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Originally Posted by MeiraStarborne

This game is rated T for Teen. Teens play this game. Adults playing this game need to be mindful of that fact and be responsible for their actions and words. Period.

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I'm trying to be as nice as possible with you here, but as I and many others already pointed out, the game has sex references, drugs, violence, trafficking, brothels, slavery and so on within the games written story content. It's not Super Mario sunshine.

It's in written form, why? Because writing doesn't get hit with harsher ratings that actual graphic depiction does.

Should we go yell at all those players in Teen rated Fortnite to stop taking videos of "teabagging" Corpses? That's a little more of a graphic depiction don't you think?

But you are right, adults should take responsibility, starting with their parents not letting them have their credit card details.

As for the roleplay community that does do 18+ Venues, they have a strict vetting process in place at many of them, just because you don't see it here, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Anyone can come in and party, but if they want to partake in drinking, gambling gil, other extra-circular activities, they have to be vetted.

You'd be surprised just how serious the RP community takes these situations, not just to keep minors out of that issue, but to keep adults from potentially putting themselves in a situation where they're letting a minor "simulate" activities they shouldn't be (Drinking/Gambling/etc)

Not all 18+ Venues are ERP, a lot of them are just nightclubs, they are strict.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

The idea behind party finder is that you're using it to join a party. When you go to an RP venue being advertised in PF, you don't join the party the person has hosted to do so. Often the party is locked to an impossible ilevel or some such. Ergo they are not using it for its intended purpose. This can of course also apply to run sellers and the like.

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https://i.imgur.com/ay0Ab2A.png

But according to Oxford, RP'ers are doing it right since they're just throwing social gatherings, IE: a party, for entertainment.

I think we have a two-fold situation here, where both SE and the community need to do more.

Event runners (particularly nightclubs) do you really need 3+ Party Finders advertising the same event? I know for a fact the majority of the playerbase blacklists venues/players who spam PF with their ads, so this is counterintuitive for your attendance anyways. I know I make it a point not to patronize venues spamming Shout and PF.

SE, this a MMORPG and socializing is the name of the game. Please design better tools, both for those who want to RP, and for those who'd rather not see this content.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

I can sell items in the PF without any issue.

People can sell content clears without any issue.

People are selling FEET PICS without any issues.

This isn't about advertisement, clearly.

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Should the GMs crackdown on that as well? Of course! Two wrongs don't make a right, though.

What is it about then? The GM laid it clearly in those screenshots, the PF is for creating parties to run content.

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Originally Posted by Ranaku

I am a almost fulltime roleplayer since HW and actually i support this ban (not of players obviously nobody should be banned for this directly) of rp stuff off the PF. At least how they are atm, on my time at NA i almost always saw just brothers and nightclubs and 18+ 18+ 18+ stuff. If that is everything your RP is about and you want to advertise for i personally won't cry a tear for SE wiping the PF Tool clean again.

But then ofc there are a few people who are actually invested into the hobby and not only in cybersex and lewd things. They could do what EU does since day one. Have a giant discord or two with all the roleplayers, a wiki with a rp calendar and every week the calendar gets postet into the discords. We over here don't even use the pf, our pf is always clear of rp stuff cause we managed to don't rely on it. So maybe it is time for NA to do the same and for the good rp projects to leave the erp partyfinder swamp.

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As someone who actively runs larger-scale RP events, and has metrics on how people find them. These community Discords are largely ineffective for getting the word out. The more events posted, the smaller, less flashy events and venues get hidden by the page-long beautiful art-driven ads posted by some of the larger.

From my own metrics, this is the order of how people find events:

Word of Mouth
Private Discords
Party Finder
Crying/Yelling
Public Discord
RP Calendar
Twitter
Tumblr

Discords are also subject to the whim or values of its owners. While many of the RP Discords are relatively neutral, some are far from it. Non-established venues or events will have less or even no access to word of mouth, and limited access to private Discords. It really hampers those who aren't already established.

I personally would rather see an RP tab added to PF, and perhaps a good faith check-box for rating, while keeping in mind that 18+ or adult only is not inclusive of mature. There distinct differences in brothels or clubs which actively promote ERP, and venues like a bar or tavern which are often not appropriate for youth.

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Originally Posted by Aurou

https://i.imgur.com/ay0Ab2A.png

But according to Oxford, RP'ers are doing it right since they're just throwing social gatherings, IE: a party, for entertainment.

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This may just be one of the most intentionally obtuse responses I've ever seen on the forums.

Party has a specific and narrow definition in the context of the game. Don't be dense.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Should the GMs crackdown on that as well? Of course! Two wrongs don't make a right, though.

What is it about then? The GM laid it clearly in those screenshots, the PF is for creating parties to run content.

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Then why is there even an 'other' tab when 100% of content (Yes, 100%) has a PF section for it?

Why let me put an item level requirement higher than the obtainable amount, which makes it so 0 people can join it?

Isn't it strange the PF has features already placed in that outright aren't promoting doing the content this GM states it's intended for?