Months of harassment

Oh I forgot to mention that he did specifically say "that (N word hard R) Chiba". Yikes.

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Originally Posted by SomeRandomHuman

He hasn't hit the wrong person or their close circle yet is my assumption.

Karma will catch up to him eventually in some shape or form. It always does.

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Yeah probably a small subset of players have the knowledge and ability to require to ascertain the information required to breach this person's system. Gaining access to another person's account through an MMO is not that simple. Most people that claim they were hacked often are victims of key loggers from shady sites so indirectly give them their password or end up directly giving them their password through a scam. Not saying it is not possible I just doubt someone who has such skills is playing an MMO.

This Is Not Helping The Game At All With This Situation! It Will Be Very Heartbreaking To See This Game, Go Downhill From This One Person Who, Likes Spamming New Accounts And Getting A Laugh By Trolling Others. Also Whoever Likes Adding Them Back In, Must Love It Too! SE Please Fix This! You Have People Who Adore This Game, That Are Willing To Continue To Play. Please We All Beg You Not To Let This Great Game Go Downhill, From This Unacceptable Behavior!

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Originally Posted by Awha

I mean the comments are aimed towards the OP

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That's a recent thing, and only because OP was the one who made the thread.

The notion that this thread is what's prompting them to spam racial hatred and general bigotry across the entire data center isn't consistent with the reality that it's been going on for months, long before the thread was ever made.

As I understand it, their actual motivation is that they were hated on their original server's Novice Network for obvious reasons, and are seething that nobody wants anything to do with them.

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Originally Posted by Mhatti

That's a recent thing, and only because OP was the one who made the thread.

The notion that this thread is what's prompting them to spam racial hatred and general bigotry across the entire data center isn't consistent with the reality that it's been going on for months, long before the thread was ever made.

As I understand it, their actual motivation is that they were hated on their original server's Novice Network for obvious reasons, and are seething that nobody wants anything to do with them.

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What I was saying I think it got worse since the thread in terms of frequency of how often they would do their shit posting. Especially after the update from the OP saying now they send them private messages.

I was also speaking from experience when I was younger normally when people tell me to stop or pay me any attention it just prompted me to do it even more. Granted even at times when they ignore me it also drove me to be louder and bolder. Though in the game I did this GM's were quick to act but it had a f2p option so I would just create another account. I did this for years until I just grew out of it.

Not excusing the person but if I was in their shoes the attention would give me a reason to do it more.

Though not sure how things have been since I have been busy with school and work.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Though not sure how things have been since I have been busy with school and work.

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If you were pulling shit like spamming the N word and calling trans people subhuman, then do me a favor and don't check in with them.

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Originally Posted by Mhatti

If you were pulling shit like spamming the N word and calling trans people subhuman, then do me a favor and don't check in with them.

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Insults, and disparaging comments are hurtful and inappropriate no matter who they are aimed towards. People are able to mature and learn from their past, ones past does help shape a person but it does not necessarily define a person them and your mindset can just be as damaging and hurtful towards someone as using hateful speech. Does not mean people should be held accountable for their actions but human imperfect by nature. So, I kindly will not do you a favor and I will be sure to check in even though I have said many hurtful things in the past.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Insults, and disparaging comments are hurtful and inappropriate no matter who they are aimed towards. People are able to mature and learn from their past, ones past does help shape a person but it does not necessarily define a person them and your mindset can just be as damaging and hurtful towards someone as using hateful speech. Does not mean people should be held accountable for their actions but human imperfect by nature. So, I kindly will not do you a favor and I will be sure to check in even though I have said many hurtful things in the past.

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Awha, were you calling people subhuman for being trans, or calling them the N word?

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

Awha, were you calling people subhuman for being trans, or calling them the N word?

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I have made comments where I have said people were sub-human yes, though trans or sexuality was really was never in my scope so no I have not called a trans sub human. Though yes I have made jokes at the expense of rape, race, gender, suicide, used numerous slurs, and have belittled people for things far outside their own control. I was not a very nice person, tbh still not a very nice person, and thought it was cool to be edgy.

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Originally Posted by SerenaNyu

This Is Not Helping The Game At All With This Situation! It Will Be Very Heartbreaking To See This Game, Go Downhill From This One Person Who, Likes Spamming New Accounts And Getting A Laugh By Trolling Others. Also Whoever Likes Adding Them Back In, Must Love It Too! SE Please Fix This! You Have People Who Adore This Game, That Are Willing To Continue To Play. Please We All Beg You Not To Let This Great Game Go Downhill, From This Unacceptable Behavior!

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Only qouting this cause when you kick someone from NN it shows the Mentor that did the kick. alongside the name of the Sprout or mentor that was kicked. Now why cant SE make it so when a mentor invites a sprout it shows the Mentor that did the invite and the sprouts name. Would likely go a long ways to solving this especially if it is one or more specific mentors inviting him back in. As those Mentors could then be removed from NN to help curve the re-inviting issue.

Yeah that would help since at the very least it would require them to make new alts each time.

WELP. After about a two week or so hiatus, he has returned with a vengeance.

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Originally Posted by SerenityChiba

WELP. After about a two week or so hiatus, he has returned with a vengeance.

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I'm so sorry. :( Wish the GMs were more useful.

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Originally Posted by SerenityChiba

WELP. After about a two week or so hiatus, he has returned with a vengeance.

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He probably read this and getting a kick from it.

The funniest thing about this is is that this person may or may not realize that should they get caught, many countries in the world will actually take some sort of action against hate speech. I know here in the US hate speech can be "rewarded" with time in prison and/or mandatory community service for said ethnic group being spoken against.

Not to mention the IP bans any online game with any sense of dignity will dish out. SE can see the internet IP addresses of players and, for console, their PSN name. So while they may or may not act swiftly SE will catch them at some point. The longer it goes on the more evidence of an actual hate crime shows itself.

Sucks that people are willing to stoop this low for a few laughs and giggles, but as I mentioned before: Karma will catch up at some point. It always does.

LUL Karma that is cute.

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

He probably read this and getting a kick from it.

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He probably is, and I don't really care. I just want him to leave all of us alone. He's literally doing this because he didn't get his way over something in Novice Network, and now he's taking it out on everyone, with the occasional targets on specific people. Going on close to a year of this BS, and we're tired of it. Dude has way too much time on his hands; he could be doing much more productive things with that time, but instead, he's harassing a bunch of people in a video game. Immaturity at its finest.

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Originally Posted by SerenityChiba

He probably is, and I don't really care. I just want him to leave all of us alone. He's literally doing this because he didn't get his way over something in Novice Network, and now he's taking it out on everyone, with the occasional targets on specific people. Going on close to a year of this BS, and we're tired of it. Dude has way too much time on his hands; he could be doing much more productive things with that time, but instead, he's harassing a bunch of people in a video game. Immaturity at its finest.

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Probably a bit beyond that. Any regular person - even a troll - would have gotten bored a long time ago regardless.

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Originally Posted by SomeRandomHuman

SE can see the internet IP addresses of players and, for console, their PSN name. So while they may or may not act swiftly SE will catch them at some point.

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This person is likely using a VPN to change their IP address, meaning SE can do literally nothing to stop them or find out where they are.
It sucks, but that's how the internet is. Unless the FBI/CSIS or a similar government intelligence agency gets involved, this will continue until the person/people behind it decide to stop.

At best, SE could implement an anti-spam measure to Novice Network similar to /say that prevents consecutive identical messages from being sent. Honestly, this should've been implemented upon release.

Whoever this person is, I am quite certain that they must be dealt with. They're definitely a child in all aspects except for the physical and a significant problem to the community at large.

I would suggest several actions:

1. Raise a stink on Social Media, perhaps Twitter. If there are agencies outside of Squeenix to whom this might be relevant (does this count as cybercrime? hate speech?) then bring it to their attention as well. Publicly. If the latter is true, then an outside entity being made aware might just pressure square into action; if not, then at least the potential threat of having their reputation ruined on social media due to their inaction on this one individual's actions would actually make them do something. They don't pay attention to NA forums that much.

1a. The individual in question has already been doing targetted harassment, and intensifying on that front even. I saw them naming alts after individuals they have a vendetta with, and I saw them directly mention names. I saw them going "[NAME] IS THE SPAMMER!" simply due to [NAME] having successfully kicked them out of NN.

2. When you report the spammer to GMs, implore that they dispatch someone to monitor Novice Network quietly for the next month or so, and complain about their kick evasion.

Likewise to the above on Siren; Offensive individual enters the Novice Network, Dumps a block of All-caps text (likely done with the in-game macro system) and jumps world before a kick can be issued. The only GM contact I've received directed me to submit feedback to the Website/Companion Feedback Forum. Post here.
In Short Mentors and Moderators need stronger tools to combat this. Offworld Kicks to kick a user that has jumped world trying to evade a kick, Cumulative kick duration for sprouts, Kick reservation to Kick an offending user when they return to the world that issued the kick, and Inviting Mentor lookup. Maybe these trolls beg for invites in the major cities, maybe it's one disgruntled mentor on another device invite free-trial throwaway accounts.
Regardless; These individuals have found a way to disrupt and offend with no repercussions and Square Enix seems content to allow this to continue unabated.

Though even if mentor kicks someone don't they automatically come back? Least that has always been the case when I get removed from NN. Would a kick really solve anything?

Being kicked only ever removes people from NN temporarily regardless of whether they're mentors or sprouts, yes.

I recognized that mostly because those RMT spammers used to try to get invited to NN to spam inthere and kicking them would only shut them up temporarily.

Which is why I suggested cumulative kick duration; first kick for a sprout-30min, second kick 45min, third for an hour, fourth for three hours and so on.
If someone is being disruptive enough to warrant that many kicks it could transition to removal from the Novice network.

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Originally Posted by Helbya

Which is why I suggested cumulative kick duration; first kick for a sprout-30min, second kick 45min, third for an hour, fourth for three hours and so on.
If someone is being disruptive enough to warrant that many kicks it could transition to removal from the Novice network.

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That could be heavily abused though. We cannot give mentors too much power, if we go down that route then sprouts should be able to remove a mentor with enough votes so to speak.

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Originally Posted by Awha

That could be heavily abused though. We cannot give mentors too much power, if we go down that route then sprouts should be able to remove a mentor with enough votes so to speak.

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Yeah. There was a mentor in Diabolos' NN for a little while who would troll a couple specific people by kicking them anonymously and immediately leave so they could not be kicked because they did not share this person's views. Before then they would spew all sorts of word vomit in NN and Limsa chats, partly to troll but I also believe that they believed everything they were saying, as messed up as a lot of it was. All of it led to a general dislike of this person, especially within the NN, which led to their dirty tactics toward to the end. Most people were quick to call them out on their BS, myself included. I'm actually surprised I didn't end up as one of their targets. lol I was VERY critical of them. Haven't seen them for awhile though, nor have I heard them mentioned. Kinda wondering if they finally got the ban they deserved. All of this drama and abuse of power just from one person. I'd rather not increase what power mentors have. I say this as a mentor. I've seen things.

And supposedly this guy has a macro to spam his mess and leaves NN before anyone can kick him. So would greater penalties really help?

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Yeah. There was a mentor in Diabolos' NN for a little while who would troll a couple specific people by kicking them anonymously and immediately leave so they could not be kicked because they did not share this person's views. Before then they would spew all sorts of word vomit in NN and Limsa chats, partly to troll but I also believe that they believed everything they were saying, as messed up as a lot of it was. All of it led to a general dislike of this person, especially within the NN, which led to their dirty tactics toward to the end. Most people were quick to call them out on their BS, myself included. I'm actually surprised I didn't end up as one of their targets. lol I was VERY critical of them. Haven't seen them for awhile though, nor have I heard them mentioned. Kinda wondering if they finally got the ban they deserved. All of this drama and abuse of power just from one person. I'd rather not increase what power mentors have. I say this as a mentor. I've seen things.

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Yeah we use to have this mentor that all of NN could not stand they turned a simple question into 15 min response breaking down everything. Say someone asked how to change font color they would explain in detail how to do it in both pc and console while also explaining what every function did along the way. When we told him he did not have to go into so much detail for every question he would go on a rant about how he was just trying to be helpful etc . . . oh God when someone would ask about a class related question be it rotation or something this man would explain in detail rotation starting from level one.

So when I got mentor status I kicked this person so quick it started a war of the mentors we had divided factions and everything was a blood bath in terms of kicks. If it it was a progressive punishment our server would have a handful of mentors left.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Yeah we use to have this mentor that all of NN could not stand they turned a simple question into 15 min response breaking down everything. Say someone asked how to change font color they would explain in detail how to do it in both pc and console while also explaining what every function did along the way. When we told him he did not have to go into so much detail for every question he would go on a rant about how he was just trying to be helpful etc . . . oh God when someone would ask about a class related question be it rotation or something this man would explain in detail rotation starting from level one.

So when I got mentor status I kicked this person so quick it started a war of the mentors we had divided factions and everything was a blood bath in terms of kicks. If it it was a progressive punishment our server would have a handful of mentors left.

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Why would you kick them? That sounds very helpful! I'd rather see an NN full of over-explanation than the chatroom it is.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Yeah we use to have this mentor that all of NN could not stand they turned a simple question into 15 min response breaking down everything. Say someone asked how to change font color they would explain in detail how to do it in both pc and console while also explaining what every function did along the way. When we told him he did not have to go into so much detail for every question he would go on a rant about how he was just trying to be helpful etc . . . oh God when someone would ask about a class related question be it rotation or something this man would explain in detail rotation starting from level one.

So when I got mentor status I kicked this person so quick it started a war of the mentors we had divided factions and everything was a blood bath in terms of kicks. If it it was a progressive punishment our server would have a handful of mentors left.

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The difference between my NN's issue and yours is that mine was actually an issue.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Why would you kick them? That sounds very helpful! I'd rather see an NN full of over-explanation than the chatroom it is.

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Yeah. They were being helpful. I'd say the kick wasn't justified. Awha has a certain..."flair" for the dramatic, however, so I guess I'm not entirely surprised. lol That said, job explanations (starting from lvl 1 no less) would have probably best been explained via /tell with the person wanting help.

Some have to understand that even to teach you need some experience and from what I read the mentor that Awha points out did not have it.

Some helping simply make situations worse or further confuse new players or even scare.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

The difference between my NN's issue and yours is that mine was actually an issue.



Yeah. They were being helpful. I'd say the kick wasn't justified. Awha has a certain..."flair" for the dramatic, however, so I guess I'm not entirely surprised. lol That said, job explanations (starting from lvl 1 no less) would have probably best been explained via /tell with the person wanting help.

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Not exactly sure what you mean how making the answer to a simple question into a mini thesis paper. Too much info is not exactly a good thing and flooding NN with explanations explaining every feature under the settings just to answer a simple how to change a color of a text. End of the day if they wanted to go into that much depth they should have done it via whisper. Though when things like that were brought up it did create a similar effect some people think it is okay and others did not thus the kicking blood bath.

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Originally Posted by Nayout

Some have to understand that even to teach you need some experience and from what I read the mentor that Awha points out did not have it.

Some helping simply make situations worse or further confuse new players or even scare.

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Aye being able to explain info in a concise manner is also important.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Not exactly sure what you mean how making the answer to a simple question into a mini thesis paper. Too much info is not exactly a good thing and flooding NN with explanations explaining every feature under the settings just to answer a simple how to change a color of a text. End of the day if they wanted to go into that much depth they should have done it via whisper. Though when things like that were brought up it did create a similar effect some people think it is okay and others did not thus the kicking blood bath.

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I'm not saying that they handled themselves properly, but I don't agree with kicking them because they were doing what they signed up for, though possibly in too much detail. You are right that they probably should have taken some explanations to a more private setting though, especially if they were going to be lengthy. But that doesn't justify the kick in any way, shape or form.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Not exactly sure what you mean how making the answer to a simple question into a mini thesis paper. Too much info is not exactly a good thing and flooding NN with explanations explaining every feature under the settings just to answer a simple how to change a color of a text. End of the day if they wanted to go into that much depth they should have done it via whisper. (...)

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While it's clear they could have tried to be better at what they're doing, they are at least trying and seem to be enthusiastic about helping; you can't not go write essays in trying to help someone and not have enthusiasm about helping people out. You were in the wrong for kicking this mentor, and no matter how annoyed you and some others might be at their delivery there is no way your kick was justified.

You can't just make people change easily, you can't just make someone learn the skill that is being selectively concise. I am more than familiar with the situation. I'm trying to help a friend whose issue is also excess--- but they mean well. They are trying. But change is hard.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Aye being able to explain info in a concise manner is also important.

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Their lack of ability to express an idea concisely does not justify you actions, however.

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Originally Posted by Awha

(...) Though when things like that were brought up it did create a similar effect some people think it is okay and others did not thus the kicking blood bath.

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The fact that people defended this person should be, for you, cause to stop and think 'wait, maybe I was in the wrong?'

You might have been annoyed at the over-explanation. Others might have been as well. But there are obviously those who don't mind it, or at least don't mind it as /much/ or think it's that big a deal and are more than willing to contest your kicking by deeming it abuse of the system. Their perspectives aren't any less valid than yours.

I mean I did not go over everything in detail. I mean it is not like the moment I became a mentor I kicked the person. We tried to explain it and it was going no where so I was like meh we shall let the powers at be decided and thus the great battle ensued. Was just using the story as an example as to why giving mentors too much power cause it can and will be abused. To be honest I wish a GM got involved many claimed they put reports in but sadly nothing came about of it though. So will never really know if the kick was a valid reason or not. Since it did appear to be a split each side had their defenders and detractors so maybe it was just a rough call for a GM or they could not be bothered. Or most likely people said they were reporting abuse and just never did.

Granted I probably could have gone about it better not saying my actions were perfect or even in the right but yeah the reason behind the story still stands that if kicks had a progression system many mentors good and bad would have been permanently removed from the NN.

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Originally Posted by Awha

That could be heavily abused though. We cannot give mentors too much power, if we go down that route then sprouts should be able to remove a mentor with enough votes so to speak.

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You're not wrong there, and increasing the weight of the punishments still doesn't prevent these attacks from happening. Especially since these seems to be new characters each time.
Though thinking about it, perhaps NN should be completely immune to the onboard macro system. Plenty of other times people test out macros only to flood their current chat channel (which defaults to the Novice Network for sprouts).

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Originally Posted by Helbya

You're not wrong there, and increasing the weight of the punishments still doesn't prevent these attacks from happening. Especially since these seems to be new characters each time.
Though thinking about it, perhaps NN should be completely immune to the onboard macro system. Plenty of other times people test out macros only to flood their current chat channel (which defaults to the Novice Network for sprouts).

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Yeah that would also be a good change, granted it would not change much but it is a start.

Jesus this is worse then the hatred for BroJobs on Jenova

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Originally Posted by Awha

Yeah that would also be a good change, granted it would not change much but it is a start.

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In terms of the NN slur spammer (which is what this thread is about in case people have forgotten), it would absolutely get in the way of him doing what he's doing. Especially because now he's ramped up the spam with two alts back to back spamming using macros. If NN had the same chat limits as shout chat, or better yet couldn't have macros used, the spammer would be severely slowed down. If he was still hellbent on spamming with the same limits as shout chat, it would give us time to kick him before he can leave. If macros can't be used in NN, he would have to spam manually and leave manually, also giving us time to kick him. And then us kicking him would prevent him from spamming other servers until he spends time making a new alt. It may not stop him completely, but it'll be more of a burden on him to spam the entire DC than it is now.