crafting is gone

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Originally Posted by Orbus

I care little for crafting being "hardcore", if I want that savage content exists and gives better gear than what can be crafted anyway.
Crafting had too many barriers to entry anyway, something that only benefits the people already at the top.
Of course THOSE people hate any change to it for ease of access.

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So long as hardcore players get some sweet content too, I would say it’ll all be balanced out. Rather than one audience getting everything.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

We have some control over the actions we take, but yet we are still at the mercy of the RNG gods.

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yes you are right, and i agree.
what you say basically what im trying to say.

crafting is like a poker, not roullete. it still need luck, but you can minimize it by taking a precaution and making a proper decision. you proc a good/excellent at 10/40, will you use trick of trade or increase the quality at the cost of 5 durability(forget the skill name).
some people probably will use master mend.
there is rng element to it, but the button you press still matter.

now want to know what is pure rng/roulette that you have no control of like callinon said. quick synth

I'm a little disappointed that Delicate Synthesis still comprises the bulk of the rotations even for the new items.

There really isn't much they can do to make crafting legitimately difficult as opposed to just RNG, though.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I'm a little disappointed that Delicate Synthesis still comprises the bulk of the rotations even for the new items.

There really isn't much they can do to make crafting legitimately difficult as opposed to just RNG, though.

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sadly yeah, i dont play a lot of MMO. but in rpg crafting is usually just one button press, "craft" and its done. the only one that have advanced crafting that i can think of is atelier series.

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Originally Posted by Orbus

I care little for crafting being "hardcore", if I want that savage content exists and gives better gear than what can be crafted anyway.
Crafting had too many barriers to entry anyway, something that only benefits the people already at the top.
Of course THOSE people hate any change to it for ease of access.

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what barriers?
you open the map and search where the guild is and then you walk inside, low level mats are sold inside the guild so you can get a feel to crafting.

It is definitely easier for new players but I've been HQing with all NQ mats the new 2 star crafted pieces with macros at 100% so macroing is still a thing. You just need a lot of CP for the 35 durability ones.

/ac "Reflect" <wait.3>
/ac "Manipulation" <wait.3>
/ac "Ingenuity" <wait.2>
/ac "Innovation" <wait.2>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Observe" <wait.3>
/ac "Focused Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Master's Mend" <wait.3>
/ac "Ingenuity" <wait.2>
/ac "Innovation" <wait.2>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Prudent Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Prudent Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Great Strides" <wait.2>
/ac "Ingenuity" <wait.2>
/ac "Innovation" <wait.2>
/ac "Byregot's Blessing" <wait.3>
/ac "Careful Synthesis"

This is what I'm using, 626 CP with 2.3k craftsmanship/control. That's for the new 2 stars 35 durability items. Fyi, you do need to be a specialist and I don't know if this is the best macro to use but it works so \o/

Lightsday
Dark Crystal
Facing to the SE
Sacrifice a Taru
There is how you make crafting simple. Then you get to cry when you break a synth that you are over 30 lvls above the required, or the only items that breaks is the one worth 20 mil gil.

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

This is what I'm using, 626 CP with 2.3k craftsmanship/control. That's for the new 2 stars 35 durability items. Fyi, you do need to be a specialist and I don't know if this is the best macro to use but it works so \o/

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Nice rotation :)
Added a few tweaks to bring it down by 18cp and add a little more power, if you want to use it non-specialist.

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/ac "Reflect" <wait.3>
/ac "Manipulation" <wait.2>
/ac "Ingenuity" <wait.2>
/ac "Innovation" <wait.2>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Ingenuity" <wait.2>
/ac "Prudent Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Prudent Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Observe" <wait.3>
/ac "Focused Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Master's Mend" <wait.3>
/ac "Ingenuity" <wait.2>
/ac "Innovation" <wait.2>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Great Strides" <wait.2>
/ac "Byregot's Blessing" <wait.3>
/ac "Careful Synthesis"

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Nice rotation :)
Added a few tweaks to bring it down by 18cp and add a little more power, if you want to use it non-specialist.

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That's pretty nice. 35 durability items are so CP consuming, wish we could have some sort of macro that wouldn't use a Syrup/tea :< At least it works nicely. Thanks for the little improvement.

Edit, actually at these stats: 2331 Craftsmanship / 2433 Control / 607 CP. You can do this macro and it'll work for the Alumina Whetstone / Pliable Glass Fiber. So no need for Syrup / Tea at all :D. Blood Bouillabaisse is all we need.

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/ac "Reflect" <wait.3>
/ac "Manipulation" <wait.2>
/ac "Ingenuity" <wait.2>
/ac "Innovation" <wait.2>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Ingenuity" <wait.2>
/ac "Prudent Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Prudent Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Observe" <wait.3>
/ac "Focused Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Master's Mend" <wait.3>
/ac "Ingenuity" <wait.2>
/ac "Innovation" <wait.2>
/ac "Delicate Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Great Strides" <wait.2>
/ac "Byregot's Blessing" <wait.3>
/ac "Basic Synthesis"

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Was... this the cause?

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

Was... this the cause?

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Probably lol

the mad m̶a̶n̶ ma'am

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Originally Posted by Lily_Skye

https://i.imgur.com/NibsDeH.gif

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Our hero has returned, and isn’t banned!! Miqote girls must be blessed by God...

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Originally Posted by CookiesNCreams

Our hero has returned, and isn’t banned!!

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The day is far from over.

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Originally Posted by Orbus

I care little for crafting being "hardcore", if I want that savage content exists and gives better gear than what can be crafted anyway.
Crafting had too many barriers to entry anyway, something that only benefits the people already at the top.
Of course THOSE people hate any change to it for ease of access.

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Me before the patch: Drake turning away
Me after the patch: Drake approves

I'm happy I can deliver to my dear Kai Shirr and try my hand at things that came off as rocket science before.

Crazy thing is, you didn't do it then, you're most likely not going to do it now, so quit throwing up straw men. What has been done to crafting, for lower levels, is a massive addition of training wheels, while higher end crafting is absolutely terrible as a result. What was possible to finish before for lower stats, is near impossible to even hq without full hq mats now. But yeah, continually stating you didn't have the motivation before to do something so simple is going to prove how you have the drive to do it now... so sure, yeah, Kai-Shirr is the difference, and not Zhloe, not M'naago, not Kurenai, or even Adkiragh, not the tremendously easy Ixal questline, or the even easier Moogle or Namazu options.

Funniest part is, pre 50, nothing's honestly changed, aside from a loss of steady hand, piece by piece, and comfort zone, so enjoy having less usable cp, longer crafts, with less quality increase success and efficiency, I guess? You really showed the omnicrafters...

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Originally Posted by rosythorns4

while higher end crafting is absolutely terrible as a result. What was possible to finish before for lower stats, is near impossible to even hq without full hq mats now.

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I'm pretty sure I'm not running an efficient macro but I'm able to do the new facet gear with 3/8 materials being HQ with 2284 craft/2050 control and 541 CP + blood bouillabaisse in 21 steps. As I and other crafters get geared up to the next level, it'll be even cheaper/easier.

Hell at least it's not like some of those Heavensward macros with 45+ steps.

I quite like the changes to crafting and gathering. My suspicion is that both are being made 'easier' because more content is going to involve them in the future.

I'm convinced that the changes to crafting and especially the insane exp buff to crafting/gathering leves is at least partially SE wanting more people to get to endgame crafting for the Restoration of Ishgard.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

I'm pretty sure I'm not running an efficient macro but I'm able to do the new facet gear with 3/8 materials being HQ with 2284 craft/2050 control and 541 CP + blood bouillabaisse in 21 steps. As I and other crafters get geared up to the next level, it'll be even cheaper/easier.

Hell at least it's not like some of those Heavensward macros with 45+ steps.

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Exactly. I had two crafts where I didn't hit 100% (74% and 86% on my facet coat and pants, which thankfully HQed). After that, I've been able to HQ most things without issue with a few HQ mats. Once I got full facet gear, minus the main hand, I can 100% HQ things like Pliabe Glass Thread from normal mats without a proc. I've got 625 cp with food and tea as a specialist, and again, this is without the main hand tool upgrade. End game crafting hasn't changed much (yet).

I'm enjoying most of the changes so far. Even after all of the ability culling, I think there are too many abilities for rare situations, but having less need for constant Steady Hands is greatly appreciated.

What annoys me the most is that I now have to waste Goetia materials just to get a feel for the new skills, numbers and trying to come up with new ways to make it work.

Seriously SE, overhauls like this are to be done on expansion releases, so people have a leveling phase to acclimate to the changes. You don't just punch classes into the gut like that mid expansion!

Not going to forget what Yoshida said in that Dengeki interview. I’m going to assume the endgame procs/rng that force people to not use macros won’t be added until 5.1.1 or 5.2. Whether it’ll be added to all endgame recipes or Ishgard is fine with me.

Just hope SE knows that if it’s Ishgard only, hardcore crafters won’t really bother doing it unless the rewards are pretty good. Like, high stat tools and gear. And if it’s going to be mere glam, it needs to be like, 2B butt level types of l.e.w.d, otherwise nobody will do it, lol. Leaderboards and minions aren’t reason enough for getting people into it, but I’m sure they know that. :P

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Originally Posted by CookiesNCreams

Not going to forget what Yoshida said in that Dengeki interview. I’m going to assume the endgame procs/rng that force people to not use macros won’t be added until 5.1.1 or 5.2. Whether it’ll be added to all endgame recipes or Ishgard is fine with me.

Just hope SE knows that if it’s Ishgard only, hardcore crafters won’t really bother doing it unless the rewards are pretty good. Like, high stat tools and gear. And if it’s going to be mere glam, it needs to be like, 2B butt level types of l.e.w.d, otherwise nobody will do it, lol. Leaderboards and minions aren’t reason enough for getting people into it, but I’m sure they know that. :P

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I think if so many people are willing to spend such insane amounts of time on getting orange parses on FFLogs, there's bound to be a ton of people who'll grind the rankings hard (Legitimately or otherwise) just for the public "prestige" of being at the top with any associated rewards being icing on the cake.

Ehn, harder recipes just mean better macros. Or macros that are more of a pain? The only thing you could meaningfully respond to are the actions only usable on Good condition steps, and even then, going in with a game plan to exploit those is A) vulnerable to RNG, which is always a bad thing and B) weaker than buff stacking anyway?

Heck, the only thing separating macro inputs from non macro inputs at this point is the fact that I could theoretically careful observation so my byregot's doesn't land on a poor, and that's not even worth the few seconds it takes me to press the button and spend the delineation.

I'm certain there's nothing they can do to make it difficult at this point, which is just fantastic for every type of crafter since it wastes less of our time and resources spent on the actual act of crafting

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Originally Posted by Aurida

Ehn, harder recipes just mean better macros. Or macros that are more of a pain?

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Honestly, I would only use macros for bulk crafting.
Everything else is crafted by hand.... with a lot of love and care. ;)

I don't mind procs forcing me to adapt and use my brain but I would mind dumb RNG just screwing it up for RNGs sake. That's not "hard", that's just needlessly frustrating and can be overcome by brute force.

I discovered teamcraft.com's simulator half an hour ago and I have to say: I like the changes to crafting a lot.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

What annoys me the most is that I now have to waste Goetia materials just to get a feel for the new skills, numbers and trying to come up with new ways to make it work.

Seriously SE, overhauls like this are to be done on expansion releases, so people have a leveling phase to acclimate to the changes. You don't just punch classes into the gut like that mid expansion!

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I'm not that good and I've already got the hand of it. Already crafted the crafting 460 gear.

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Originally Posted by Aurida

Ehn, harder recipes just mean better macros. Or macros that are more of a pain? The only thing you could meaningfully respond to are the actions only usable on Good condition steps, and even then, going in with a game plan to exploit those is A) vulnerable to RNG, which is always a bad thing and B) weaker than buff stacking anyway?

Heck, the only thing separating macro inputs from non macro inputs at this point is the fact that I could theoretically careful observation so my byregot's doesn't land on a poor, and that's not even worth the few seconds it takes me to press the button and spend the delineation.

I'm certain there's nothing they can do to make it difficult at this point, which is just fantastic for every type of crafter since it wastes less of our time and resources spent on the actual act of crafting

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You can’t macro a rotation that requires you to use 2-3 proc moves in multiple situational settings, like, at all. It’s optimistic thinking to believe that. It’ll all be rng in 5.1.1 (or 5.2, more likely). Also, it’s impossible to make crafting skill based like I said earlier. It’s too math based to be that way. They can either choose RNG for endgame, or laughably easy and 100% guaranteed. Obviously the former is a better choice for hardcore players.

I think some folks forget that what Yoshida was talking about is not meant for casual crafters, it was intended for hardcore ones. Casual crafters already got 2+ years of updates and QoL fixes including 5.1. So, it would make sense that 5.2 is for the hardcore folks. I mean, it makes sense.

5.1 - casual crafters first
5.2 - hardcore crafters second

Because if they did hardcore players first, there would be a riot on the forums, lol.

Tbf those procs might not actually "gate out" casuals from those hardcore recipes. Yes, you can't make a fully automatic macro to deal with the procs. But there's nothing stopping people from executing steps from the macro manually, with guidelines on how to deal with the procs.

And I doubt they'll implement an extra system on top of the main one, complicated enough to only allow the most committed to handle it. You already had the limitations in the Ixali quests and they ended up discarding that. That would be imo the path to making certain crafts harder: random debuffs that would require people to adapt their actions, not just follow a script that wouldn't work anyway because you had less CP than usual or no access to certain abilities.

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

Tbf those procs might not actually "gate out" casuals from those hardcore recipes. Yes, you can't make a fully automatic macro to deal with the procs. But there's nothing stopping people from executing steps from the macro manually, with guidelines on how to deal with the procs.

And I doubt they'll implement an extra system on top of the main one, complicated enough to only allow the most committed to handle it. You already had the limitations in the Ixali quests and they ended up discarding that. That would be imo the path to making certain crafts harder: random debuffs that would require people to adapt their actions, not just follow a script that wouldn't work anyway because you had less CP than usual or no access to certain abilities.

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Huh? The point isn’t to “gate out” casuals, it’s to give hardcore players something fun to do, and hopefully, get rewarded for. That’s really it lol. If casuals want to try their hand at the upcoming difficult rng recipes, I sure welcome them to try. They might like it.

Also, sorry, but macro’ing something so complicated just sounds impossible or, completely inefficient and inconvenient. I know people want access to everything crafting related, but he’s made it pretty clear you can’t macro these upcoming recipes. I don’t think macros will “save the day” this time like you hope it will.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

nice maybe it will actually be good now.

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I'm excited to craft for the first time since launch. NGL

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Originally Posted by CookiesNCreams

Not going to forget what Yoshida said in that Dengeki interview. I’m going to assume the endgame procs/rng that force people to not use macros won’t be added until 5.1.1 or 5.2.

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I'm going to keep assuming either something was lost in translation or he didn't really know what was going on with crafting.

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Originally Posted by CookiesNCreams

Huh? The point isn’t to “gate out” casuals, it’s to give hardcore players something fun to do, and hopefully, get rewarded for. That’s really it lol. If casuals want to try their hand at the upcoming difficult rng recipes, I sure welcome them to try. They might like it.

Also, sorry, but macro’ing something so complicated just sounds impossible or, completely inefficient and inconvenient. I know people want access to everything crafting related, but he’s made it pretty clear you can’t macro these upcoming recipes. I don’t think macros will “save the day” this time like you hope it will.

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That's my point. Whatever you put into a macro, you can also do manually. It won't become complicated, it'll just go from easy and effortless to still easy but inconvenient. Instead of having a macro that does things automatically, people will just follow a script that says what order they have to use X skill, and what to do if a proc comes up.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

I'm going to keep assuming either something was lost in translation or he didn't really know what was going on with crafting.

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True, I guess we will know in the next live letter....whenever that is. Would you happen to know when? :P

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

Edit, actually at these stats: 2331 Craftsmanship / 2433 Control / 607 CP. You can do this macro and it'll work for the Alumina Whetstone / Pliable Glass Fiber. So no need for Syrup / Tea at all :D. Blood Bouillabaisse is all we need.

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Basic Synth is a good idea. Worth noting you have 5 Dura left over, so you can use Basic Synth twice, dropping the craftsmanship requirements even further.

Even then it's not even as if 'making it RNG' would even solve anything.

You're either adding unnecessary levels of frustration to it to gatekeep 'casuals' (which would have an even more pronounced effect on the 'hardcores' - if you can try an unlimited amount of times then it's based on who pulls the slot machine the most, and if you can't, then it's the same but for who has more crafting alts) or you're making and designing an impenetrable system where instead of a mathematically perfect, flawless rotation macro, you have a mathematically perfect and less flawed flowchart that you follow instead.

Any extant difference between a 'casual' or 'hardcore' crafter is purely in how much time they dedicate to the act, so realistically the only relationship that a 'casual' crafter that makes a couple things a week has with a 'hardcore' one that camps a retainer bell and spams crafts 8 hours a day is that the former is diminishing the pool of possible customers of the latter by one individual

There aren't 'casual' and 'hardcore' crafters, there's people that can craft and people that can't, and any complaints about this seem to have solely to do with a desire to move people from the first group to the second.

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Originally Posted by Aurida

Even then it's not even as if 'making it RNG' would even solve anything.

You're either adding unnecessary levels of frustration to it to gatekeep 'casuals' (which would have an even more pronounced effect on the 'hardcores' - if you can try an unlimited amount of times then it's based on who pulls the slot machine the most, and if you can't, then it's the same but for who has more crafting alts) or you're making and designing an impenetrable system where instead of a mathematically perfect, flawless rotation macro, you have a mathematically perfect and less flawed flowchart that you follow instead.

Any extant difference between a 'casual' or 'hardcore' crafter is purely in how much time they dedicate to the act, so realistically the only relationship that a 'casual' crafter that makes a couple things a week has with a 'hardcore' one that camps a retainer bell and spams crafts 8 hours a day is that the former is diminishing the pool of possible customers of the latter by one individual

There aren't 'casual' and 'hardcore' crafters, there's people that can craft and people that can't, and any complaints about this seem to have solely to do with a desire to move people from the first group to the second.

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Let me ask you this. Why should two types of players be in the same bubble? For example, for hardcore raiders and casual raiders (myself included, I’m not hardcore at all), why should we be in the same bubble?

Receive the same rewards.
Receive the same satisfaction.
Receive the same everything.

Even though, hardcore raiders have put in 10x more effort than me to earn what they get. It’s not fair to them, and they should be recognized for their efforts.

(No point trying to debate with me over whether comparisons can be made or not, it won’t go anywhere.)
(No point trying to debate with me over whether “hardcores” or “casuals” exist. You know that’s not right.)

Just because I believe raiders are “elitist” or “greedy rich players”, isn’t enough justification to nerf everything they have.

Frankly, Yoshida should do this proc system for endgame recipes (or Ishgard) it’ll show which crafters are hardcore and which aren’t. Also, hardcore players deserve some content after 2+ years of nothing. There really isn’t a valid reason to ignore them. Like, at all.

I have my doubts about the proc system especially after my little muslce memory oops. Just proves that the wrong skill in the wrong place can swipe the chance of HQ away instantly.And do it too such a degree that no amount of skill or knowledge will save you. Proc's swing the door to this happening wide open so SE better test the system into the ground and back.

Right now even with my old crafting gear I have no issue with anything to craft

before in 5.1 I have struggled to make 100/100 with all normal quality mats

especially 35/35 dura was fun to craft

and my gear is not total BiS melded coz I was saving for next crafting gear

it was fun to whistle, pay attention to stacks, literally it was fight me vs recipe, I loved that I felt good putting effort in it

I don't mind making crafting easy for all to lvl 60 , for new people some skills should be changed but .... right now it's totally revamped, and too Easy at The End

I don't find it funny to craft now, and using scrolls now to fish proc is even Easier

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Originally Posted by testname

I don't find it funny to craft now, and using scrolls now to fish proc is even Easier

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What are these scrolls, and how do they affect procs???