I think people get identity and effectiveness mixed up. Identity tends to pop up when jobs are weak. They lack 'something' and the something is often hard to pin down in objective terms, but something is missing that was there before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart
Warrior identity talks just tend to draw a lot of salt because there's always that one guy who turns the Warrior memes into reality.
Reasonable buff to war
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11-02-2019, 02:07 AMKabooa
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11-02-2019, 02:35 AMIzshaWell...since you're responding to any of like 4 posts I made 3 pages ago and you just quoted a period, maybe I made a grammar mistake? Cant comment on such a vague accusation.Quote:
Originally Posted by millktea
That is incorrect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Izsha
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...4I8SxlbBzBfY-JQuote:
Originally Posted by millktea
No, seriously. I dont even recognize your handle, and it wasnt even in the discussion a few pages ago that you are referencing.
Buncha ad hominem, and other lame fallacy statements that have nothing to do with the arguments and couldnt prove if you had too like 'you dont understand warrior'. That is pretty lame that it, as you put it, is your only rebuttal.Quote:
Originally Posted by millktea
1 giant thread on this forum that is made up of the same same 30 people going back and forth isnt a consensus. Neither is reddit, or this forum in total. It's a vocal minority of players. This game has hundreds of thousands of players. It is quite presumptuous to assume this forum speaks for the majority.Quote:
Originally Posted by millktea
Go look at a rating site for services. A disproportionate number of reviews are 1 star and 5 stars because people that feel SO strongly about a topic that they will go online and spend their valuable time talking into the void of the internet do so because they have a strong feeling. No one feels strongly 'OK'. People feel strong negative or positive feelings and those are the drivers for online forum posters. So, no, a few hundred people that regularly post about broken tanks are bit a consensus, majority, or anything else close to it in a game where hundreds of thousands of people are just playing comfortably every day and seem to be happy enough with their situation to no feel the need to come rate their class online. Internet forums are just the highly engaged vocal minority of the playerbase. SE knows that and this is why when the forums say jump they just look at you like cat and occasionally post a 'were aware of the complaints and were keeping an eye on it and collecting data.' That's just code for 'we will change something if the data of our hundreds of thousands of quiet players change their ACTIONS in game through objective, numerical, data driven analysis, not your QQ 50 page thread of 30 people arguing'. That is the proper approach to solve a problem of this scale that affects this many people.
When did I EVER say anything that they should balance jobs for the lower tiered players? If anything I have been dismissive of complaints from players focusing on dungeons and other lower tiered content over my time posting here. Balancing from the bottom up is never the right approach imo for virtually any multiplayer game. Not sure where this line of attack even came from as I never say anything like that. But when you respond to a post pages ago and dont even put the post in questions text, I guess you can just make stuff up.Quote:
Originally Posted by millktea
When drks brought up play rates in previous years I said it, and the response was always 'easy to say when your job has high play rates'. Well to all those folks wars on the bottom in power and play rates and im still saying the same darn thing. People use play rates to justify everything from balance complaints, to 'fun-ness' of a class. Play rates tell you 1 single fact. How many people are playing X tank in Y content. Everyone likes to shoe horn n their personal soap box reason to explain WHY the play rates are a certain way. But these are all starting with a conclusion, then looking for data to back it up instead of the other way around. That's how you get flat earthers.Quote:
Originally Posted by millktea
There are a myriad of reasons why people choose to play a specific tank. Aesthetic preferences (eg:big barbarian with axe vs ff8 gunblade fanboi for example). If you picked up Gun because you love ff8, that says nothing about balance, or fun, or design. Thats personal. Theres also player perception (eg: everyone says drk sucks in SB. Maybe I'll level war instead then. I dont want to suck). Similarly Theres a fotm group that will always bandwagon to the 'meta class/race/champion in every game because max performance/dps is all they care about. There is also 'fun's mixed in there. Some people leveled a job, found it wasnt for them (or it got reworked and dont like the new version) and they shuffle off to something else. Theres endless reasons why someone plays the job they play. Uunless you have a bunch of polls from players asking why they play the job they do and then run multi regression analysis to tease out the effect all the factors have on the total play rates, then you have nothing to lean on in play rates. Using play rates as the crux of your argument is just talking out of your bum. You CANNOT state with any degree of certainty that your pet peeve is THE reason playrates are as you are. Its faulty logic. Period. It was a terrible argument for drk when pld was on top (hilariously it was often used against war, but pld had far higher play rates cuz...reasons). It's still the same bad argument when war is on bottom. -
11-02-2019, 08:21 PMArriusIt's more because they believe they should have the biggest DPS of all, because of 'muh rage' and wearing a big axe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabooa
Just watch - Once they are on top of the tank DPS again, they suddenly will excuse any clunkiness they still have in their kit. -
11-03-2019, 08:14 AMNyneSwordzMore like wars will still bring up gameplay qol clunkiness issues EVEN IF they are top dps, AND YOU and other tank mains will be crashing the threads SCREAMING that wars have no business complaining when theg are top dps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrius
Because its not as of thats been the case just prior to ShB when I brought up war qol issues. Right?
Get over yourself man. -
11-04-2019, 03:40 PMHanayumi
It finally happened, got a pretty lousy healer that kept dying over and over to the mechanics to last boss of newest dungeon and yeah... definitely feel like War needs to be able to use Nascent Flash on their own. Could totally solo that kind a boss before 5.0 and even now some of the other tanks can. Just want to trigger the flash effect for the hp absorb, we can totally lose out on the glint effect. >.<
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11-05-2019, 05:25 AMArriusBecause the thread didn't start with asking for potency buffs before everything else. Not at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by NyneSwordz
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11-05-2019, 06:09 AMNyneSwordzIt didn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrius
OP asked for 4 changes. First was a qol change that had nothing to do with potency.
How about you not jump to conclusions about all warrior players based on your own narrow views?
You didn't refute my point either.
Which was before we knew anything about potency, warriors had already asked for some qol changes to smooth out gameplay.
And its not like theres multiple threads and posts within this thread asking for changes to nf, eye and overpower.
Just because you think something is so doesn't make it true. -
11-05-2019, 06:15 AMaodhan_ofinnegainI see a request for potency changes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukebox12
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11-06-2019, 05:16 AMNyneSwordzFirst request was for storms eye duration increase no?Quote:
Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain
Im assuming thats to make it easier to time ir so eye doesnt fall off after ir.
Should i dig up posts asking for qol changes pre shb so u would just stop making the groundless assertion that the only thing wars care about is dps?
If u dont like wars asking for qol adjustments just stay out of the thread instead of making useless accusations cuz youre somehow personally offended by wars asking for anything. EVEN WHEN IT IS NOT DPS. -
11-06-2019, 08:45 AMaodhan_ofinnegainSo yes the very first thing asked was SE adjustment AND Potency Increase in the very first post, do not be pedantic to twist it into your favour, potency buff was among the first things asked at the very beginning of thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by NyneSwordz
I am very much entitled to share MY Views in any forum post, much like everyone else, so do not ever tell me or anyone else to stay out of a thread. If I disagree with NF changes then I'm allowed to voice that disagreement, or in this case, I'm entitled to refer back to the OP's request in full to back a valid point raise by another person who posted. -
11-06-2019, 09:42 PMLiam_HarperWhy not though? DRK and WAR being the weakest in dps and being the 2 hand weapon users just throws the whole idea of class fantasy out the window. Aesthetic is valid reason to start a class.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrius
Pala should be the mitigation king, War and Drk should hit hard but take slightly bigger hits and GnB somewhere inbetween.
I don't get why it's so taboo to ask for damage as a War or Drk. It's like we have to be punished for being good in SB. How dare we. I'm not ashamed to admit I like a tank that hits hard. It's far from the big fix, just a minor QoL, War's rotation is as dull as paint drying and needs some depth, but it's something. -
11-06-2019, 09:47 PMEsmoireThat's how I feel as well, honestly. PLD should be the best tank on point since that is what you would expect from the shield-bearing job. WAR should have the most damage because they just seem the most brutal. I also liked when WAR had the most HP since it just kind of fit the berserker fantasy, going back to even the Final Fantasy series at large. Especially since HP is not worth anywhere near as much as mitigation so it is something easier to tamper with design-wise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam_Harper
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11-06-2019, 09:50 PMReynhartAesthetic was thrown out of the window the minute they decided that barefist did more damage than a 2-handed axe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam_Harper
The official reason why those did more damage than PLD was because PLD was supposed to be "mitigation king"...except that this is not true, and in fact, never really was since 2.1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam_Harper
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11-06-2019, 11:04 PMEsmoireNot sure if you are confusing aesthetic for realism. If you give me a shot of a party of adventures, and they all look experienced, the ones without weapons are the ones I would be the most worried about taking on in a fight. It's just kind of like visual shorthand and falls into expectation. Even going back to the earliest Final Fantasy games, monks thing was their barehanded damage was awful when you first got them but they would become the deadliest over time, matching or exceeding the power of the greatest weapons in the series.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynhart
Talking about fantasy at large, we would generally place a big axe or a big sword-wielder as being more dangerous than someone with daggers (more typically assumed to be rogueish or underhanded), yet when they have no weapon at all suddenly they seem immensely more badass. -
11-06-2019, 11:39 PMReynhartApparently, "aesthetic" is a reason to explain why WAR and DRK should do more damage...because they have bigger weapons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Esmoire
Because in all fairness, they are. In "fantasy at large", you don't have "tanks" that are plagued with low physical damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Esmoire