Pulling the bosses In dungeons as DPS a thing now?

Only had 1 dps pull a boss this expansion, was a range dps.
First this genius was more or less afk before the boss and did little to nothing in helping with killing the mobs, then for no reason used sprint, not that things that makes everyone move faster, ran into the boss area and pulled which kinda fucked up for the melee dps and the healer who had to waste time healing them.
Not waiting for a timer I can understand, but I never use a damn timer in dungeons since I always run in and pull at once... but I guess if your in a hurry...
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If your in such a damn hurry then perhaps help kill the mobs prior to the boss instead of hanging around doing jack shit during that part, how about that?!

I play DD, Heals, and Tank.
I've played FFXI also.

I do and understand both sides.
DD just want to hit shit quickly and test tanks/heals capabilities,
Tanks want to tank that what they believe to be a good pull or start the pull so that everyone can fully focus on their jobs.
In FFXI there were extra roles in the party 1 was Puller, I understand this doesn't exist in FFXIV.

All-in-all tanks should just take the mob off the DD or healer or who ever pulled. If the boss does a tank buster and kills the DD just deal with it.
I get DD's doing this all the time doesn't bother me I'll just hit it a 1-2 times and get the hate on me.
Tanks just need to adapt to the situation.

I don't give a damn if you're the dps or the healer. if you continue to pull for me while i am tanking i will either votekick you or i will the the duty.

Yesterday, thinking of this thread, i did try as a dps in a dungeon to pull not only the bosses, but the next packs of mobs as well. Because i did stumble upon a tank who would take a tiny pack of 3-5 mobs at a time, which is indeed not really funny when you want to aoe a lot. The tank did said nothing while running for taking all the aggro back from me, as a good tank pictured by some people in this topic. But at some point he was struggling to stay alive, the healer to heal him as well, and then the tank died, and we wipe. Still no comments in the chat, so i try to mass pull the same packs again, so that the tank and healer can train to become better at their jobs. And we wipe again, and one time again after that.

At that point i was just pissed off seeing people not able to improve themselves, and when we engage the first pack of mobs i didn't go pull the next one, but did stay a bit away to press alt-tab to go look at some things on the internet while the others were killing the so numerous mobs for me. Same for the second pack. I didn't get kicked, maybe the rest of the group thought i was afk or something. Or maybe they did understand that they have to become better at their jobs, because they seemed to put more efforts when i did mass pull again after that.

Even though we didn't wipe again, want to know the worst part of it ?

I will probably use these Thancred and Alphinaud trusts again XD

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Originally Posted by Kleeya

Yesterday, thinking of this thread, i did try as a dps in a dungeon to pull not only the bosses, but the next packs of mobs as well. Because i did stumble upon a tank who would take a tiny pack of 3-5 mobs at a time, which is indeed not really funny when you want to aoe a lot. The tank did said nothing while running for taking all the aggro back from me, as a good tank pictured by some people in this topic. But at some point he was struggling to stay alive, the healer to heal him as well, and then the tank died, and we wipe. Still no comments in the chat, so i try to mass pull the same packs again, so that the tank and healer can train to become better at their jobs. And we wipe again, and one time again after that.

At that point i was just pissed off seeing people not able to improve themselves, and when we engage the first pack of mobs i didn't go pull the next one, but did stay a bit away to press alt-tab to go look at some things on the internet while the others were killing the so numerous mobs for me. Same for the second pack. I didn't get kicked, maybe the rest of the group thought i was afk or something. Or maybe they did understand that they have to become better at their jobs, because they seemed to put more efforts when i did mass pull again after that.

Even though we didn't wipe again, want to know the worst part of it ?

I will probably use these Thancred and Alphinaud trusts again XD

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I have no words to that, so let me show you what i think in the gif below.

https://i.memeful.com/media/post/lwmp2Ld_700wa_0.gif

Nedkel, your gif said it all.

Ouch, the dog in this gif indeed seems to hit hard, but still it can't compare as how much i did get hurt when Thancred and Alphinaud failed to handle my mass pulling XD

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

I have no words to that, so let me show you what i think in the gif below.

https://i.memeful.com/media/post/lwmp2Ld_700wa_0.gif

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They had us in the first half, not gonna lie.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Probably didn't want his timer or stacks or whatever it is Dragoons have to run out.

Honestly, who cares? You could have taken it off him in literal seconds, it wouldn't have really effected your run, and you'd have finished the dungeon, got your loot and forgotten all about it by now.

Instead you got kicked, had to start over, you wasted your own time and theirs, and the whole thing has evidently annoyed you enough to make this topic about it.

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I get soo tired of people on this damn forum complaining about people making topics. A lot of times people want to just get other's opinions on something for their perspective. Or to just get something off their chest. That is what a forum is for.

Screw off forums if you don't want to see what people have to say.

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Originally Posted by DarkEiraStar

That term is way old. Back in the days of World of Warcraft where a group needed to wait for 3-5 stacks of sunder to make sure the tank had good aggro. I'm sure its probably even older than that. Back then if you pulled even accidentally there was a good chance the tank wasn't going to be able to pick it up, not before you died. And in combat raises were not a thing. (Druids were the only ones with a combat raise, but it has a 40 minute CD).

I don't know if its an age thing, but I image a lot of these attitudes come from that time. If you pulled ahead of the tank you were an a**hole and the rest of the group would let you die. Even though the days of working to gain aggro are gone, many people, myself included, still extend this consideration to the tank.

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Also to add to this Vanilla WoW had differences in pulling aggro, so if you pulled ahead of the tank it made it difficult to pull off the DPS because of how aggro worked. "Suppose a mob is attacking player 1. In order for the mob to switch to player 2, he must do more than just exceed the threat of player 1. If he is in melee range of the mob, he will draw aggro when he exceeds 110% of player 1's threat." - https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Kenc...arch_on_threat

Vanilla WoW had a very good reason why you should never pull ahead of a tank just because of how aggro worked. Now days if you do it people just see you as a *insert bad word here*.

If they pull anything let them die

I tend to only pull what I'm comfortable with. If it's a leveling dungeon or the ilvl is synced, I tend to be more careful on the first run, while in most of the 50/60/70 dungeons without the sync I pull wall to wall all the time as long as the healer isn't undergeared. On the fly I'll judge whether or not I could have pulled more, and I'll keep that in mind as I become more familiar with the particular dungeon.

In the case of smaller pulls, sometimes a teammate who is more familiar with the dungeon might want to pick up the pace when I'm lagging behind, and decide to pull more. I would prefer that they communicate this between pulls in the chat, but I don't think pulling for me is such a huge offense either. It's really as simple as walking up and doing an AoE or two, just like what I would do if I lose aggro on a few mobs if they fall out of my range or something. I don't think it should be the norm for DPS to run out and pull instead of communicating, but it's not that big of a deal to me.

As for bosses, I think it doesn't matter at all. One single ranged attack will probably put you first on the aggro list, and a DPS going in first doesn't really affect the end result. Sometimes I can drift off for just a second, so a reminder to get my head back into the game might even be appreciated.

Count down for Dungeon bosses? Not really needed. But please, Tanks... Use countdown for newest Raid Bosses and Trials. Some of us DPS, AND Healers would like a heads up to pre-cast and prebuff themselves to make the fight smoother and easier to handle.

Oh and Tanks in Dungeons... USE YOUR DEFENSIVE COOLDOWNS, THEY ARE THERE FOR A REASON. And dont use them alll at pull. xD

I once had a DRG use Elusive Jump to get ahead of me to pull mobs, even though the party was already sprinting.

The mob tagged him for most of his health, and his panic was visible. I made sure to leisurely peel the mob off of him.

I'm pretty sure we were all laughing, though. I mean, when you're going to such great lengths to troll, you deserve what you get.

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Originally Posted by Lynesse

I once had a DRG use Elusive Jump to get ahead of me to pull mobs, even though the party was already sprinting.

The mob tagged him for most of his health, and his panic was visible. I made sure to leisurely peel the mob off of him.

I'm pretty sure we were all laughing, though. I mean, when you're going to such great lengths to troll, you deserve what you get.

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Pretty much the same with DPS who are unloading all their skills into a single mob during wall to wall pulling.

I hate when this happen, dps damaging one mob so much that this mob switch aggro to him. I never going back just to pick up that one mob, i let dps tank it for entire pull and wait till he brings that one mob to me so i could take it back. Im not going to waste healers CD heals because one hot head cant wait a little before i pull everything.

Ridiculous problems needs a ridiculous solutions.

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Originally Posted by Legion88

I' never seen such things neither on Chaos nor on Light.
Must be something cultural.

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Primarily on NA servers. I'm quite happy on JP servers.

First, I'll just say that refusing to tank and turning off tank stance was too much. Saying something in chat was would have been better. Especially if the former causes a wipe.

That being said, DPS should not pull like that out of nowhere. Each Job in the game has a designated role and when those roles are followed and played as intended things go way smoother. Tanks are meant to pull so let's keep it that way. My suggestion to resolve these scenarios is easy; Communication. Simply ask at the beginning to pull as fast as possible so the group knows to keep up and tank will pull bosses right away allowing DPS to maximize their buffs.

My real issue here!
We should not be supporting or further influencing bad behavior no matter where it comes from. To instigate a situation or gang up on someone who is trying to do the right thing is really annoying and blacklist worthy for me.

"Just take aggro back, it's so OP now"
Come on, that's just a lame and excuses the person at fault at the same time not creating any type of accountability.

"DPS have buffs and need to keep them up"
Fair point, but just ask instead and make it be known so tanks can take appropriate measures.

"Some people want to get done fast and don't like farming tomes or doing Duty Roulette"
If the entire party feels the same then great, you have something in common and can work to go as fast as you want. Though, this isn't always the case, If you as a DPS want to go balls to the wall or queued in a hurry because you have to go to work soon, you have just imposed your real life circumstance onto 3-23 unsuspecting and undeserving people. You can't impose your will or your pace onto the whole party cause you "feel" a certain way or are in a hurry. It's quite egotistical and a complete lack or respect for other. Please stay far away from me.

"That tank deserves to be kicked, it's tank entitlement!"
The tank did wrong turning off his stance from clearly a tantrum and a less than mature thing to do, I agree up to there. Two wrongs don't make it right, further more 3 wrongs doesn't make the situation right either and this mindset solves absolutely nothing on top of being the 3rd wrong. As for "Tank Entitlement," each Job has a role and it's better if people would stick to their roles, it's not entitlement for the tank to pull, it's how the role works. This mindset is just so toxic and ughh.. This IS lowkey stupid behavior in itself and is often masked with other "supporting reasons" why saying this is ok. Stay far the piss away from me PLEASE.