Objectively, The Royal Managerie Will Be Nerfed

As long as everyone is sharing useless anecdotes...I've only done the trial twice, once for my own story quest and once in trial roulette, and both times the parties I got from the duty finder cleared it without even a single wipe. Although I realize I've been lucky based on other information, if all I had was my own experience to go on I'd consider it one of the easiest trials we've had.

What I mean is, even though it really sucks if you've had a terrible time, that doesn't mean everyone else has the same experience, or the majority, etc.

Beat this on my first go-round with the duty finder. We only needed two shots.

It's all opinion here including mine.

I cleared the fight but I still think it should be nerfed if the metrics say most players attempting haven't cleared the fight by the next patch time.

Otherwise the game is being designed around the hardcore or elite playerbase. Which would be cool if that did happen in a way. But most developers don't develop around the hardcore or elite anymore, the KISS format.

I really hope it doesn't get nerfed, it is literally the only fight in the MSQ that requires you to somewhat know what you are doing. After some groups I have had lately in Ala Mhigo we need trials like this to force people to adapt and play better, DPS pulling crazy low #'s making trash packs take forever and eating every aoe under the sun

The only thing i have to say is LUL!

I loved the challenge the Royal Menagerie gives for the final battle of the story.

Beating that fight gave me a great sense of accomplishment because I wiped many times but the group buckled down and we got through it.

I agree that it can be harder then any other MSQ content out there but it does not deserve a nerf just because it is a little harder.

It is not like they are throwing mechanics that are new. We have seen all these. The fire/water mech, ice from Shiva, stack mech, move away marker (the line mech that goes with that), bacon weave, anytime there is a huge ground aoe. I don't know, I would think after seeing these mechs over and over again people would get the idea. If not, those people need to make themselves vocal and/or Google the fight. SE does the handholding for us throughout the game to prep us for this fight. So imho, it doesn't need nerfed. People need to pay attention. Yoshi-P even said that this expansion was going to be much more mechanic heavy vs last expansion. I feel as though a lot of people still think they can muscle their way through mechanics or the mechanics are going to forgiving.

TL; DR: SE has shown us all these mechanics already throughout the game. SE warned us this was a mechanic heavy expansion. People need to learn it's ok to ask for clarification/help, Google stuff, and pay attention.

I think it's just fine where it is, and I say that as a new player. I went in blind as a White Mage, and while it took a few tries and a lot of communication and coordination to successfully clear it, it felt more satisfying once I had successfully beaten it BECAUSE it was so challenging. The rest of the MSQ up to that point felt very easy by comparison, true, but I think that's because previous content was not challenging enough so the increase in difficulty felt sudden.

One thing I would really like to see is new Guildhests which teach players essential raid skills like stacking-- not all players know what those arrows mean, and that seems correctable through additional instructional content.

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Originally Posted by Clawbriar

On the other hand, I kinda feel if you're level 70, you should have a good enough grasp of what to do by now.

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It's not just player competence that's the issue here. SE made this guy more like a raid boss than an end-of-story boss. I think it would have helped if Verity vendors unlocked as soon as you get finished with Ala Mhigo. If they're gonna make him raid-style strength then they should let us gear up... or just nerf the bugger a little. It took me 5 tries in a single group on my first go through to defeat him (using 70 class gear), so it IS possible, but the difficulty is a mite too hard for pugging.

People complained about Nidhogg Story mode, not nerfed. (only echo upon party death)

People complained about Ozma, not nerfed.

This SB instance is just right. Enough where people can't be dragged to victory. Every mechanic practically comes from everything you seen in the story or earlier normal trials. Diamond Dust? Unless you were asleep during Shiva, I don't know how people mess it up. There is such thing as a Focus Target.

Keep up the good work with story instances SE!

I dont want it nerfed but I think to prevent it from being nerf the people that want it to remain as is should run trial roulette and stay even if they know it will be terrible. We are only making the likelihood that a fight will be nerfed more likely when people instantly leave, vote abandon after 1 wipe, or prevent entry by wearing gear of an ilvl lower than the trial they are trying to avoid. When a large portion of the players that have and can clear decide to shun the players that cant the only solution is to nerf the fight. We ourselves can do better than this

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Originally Posted by technole

This SB instance is just right. Enough where people can't be dragged to victory. Every mechanic practically comes from everything you seen in the story or earlier normal trials. Diamond Dust? Unless you were asleep during Shiva, I don't know how people mess it up. There is such thing as a Focus Target.

Keep up the good work with story instances SE!

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It's actually very possible to beat Shiva before she can even use the ground freeze ability so it's possible that its their first time seeing the ability.

It's probably the only ability in the fight you really need to watch out for in the fight so I just macro a warning for it.

Short answer: git gud

Long answer: Unless someone has been facerolling their keyboard all the way through ARR and HW and SB then you should already know how to do the mechanics

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Originally Posted by Eshura

It's not just player competence that's the issue here. SE made this guy more like a raid boss than an end-of-story boss.

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Like Niddhog in Final Step of Faith?

Think of it as a test to see if you're ready for the end game.

I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it did get nerfed (although, really, how much of a nerf can it get that won't be taken care of by gear levels outpacing it, anyway?), but I'm genuinely glad that I got to clear it as it is now. I thought it was the fun kind of challenging, not the "oh my god why would they even do this to us" kind. I'm not a stellar player by any means, but there were no mechanics that I couldn't comprehend/adjust to -- and I was pretty sleep-deprived when I ran it.

My experience was Duty Finder group, but three or four tries. We made clear progress with each attempt though -- our last wipe before we succeeded had the boss down to a single-digit health percentage. I'm quite grateful to the group for sticking with it for so long... especially since the sun was starting to come up by the time I went to bed after clearing it. It would have been really frustrating to queue up for it around 3:00 and go to bed close to 5:00 with nothing to show for it, hahaha.

meanwhile .... : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcPf_t79Z7s

xD ... (OwO)b this fight doesn't need a nerf at all . THE END . >:D

I am a white mage and I cleared this. My fiance and I went in together with a new bard that was waiting for it to pop. We're a tank/healer combo so we help dps ques.

Anyway the game from the start of ARR to the very end of SB is preparing you for this fight, preparing you for the damage increase. As a healer, we feel it when dps is a little low or people are constantly being hit. To Raise alone at that level is 3600 mana so yes, dodging is important.

If you don't know the fight, maybe you're returned or jump potioned so you don't remember or know it... but ask. A lot of us are more than willing to help. It's not hard if you pay attention and learn from your mistakes. Stick with it and you'll get through.

I loved this fight and the difficulty spike, it felt refreshing when you took him down. Don't nerf it, maybe give more incentive for older players to help new to the trial folk. But if you don't know the fight, please speak up. We can't help you out if we don't know that you don't know it.

I just ran this for the first time, I had been putting it off as I suffered from bad latency (AUS player) and a slow responsive laptop and as I'd heard reports about how difficult it was awith all the aoe/mechanics I decided to put it off. I've just bought a brand new gaming laptop and have completed the fight and in all honesty, it's just learning the mechanics, with a DF group and 4 of us completely new to the fight it took us 4 attempts to clear it, I don't think it needs a nerf, it might be a struggle for those with bad latency though and for them I understand the frustration as there is a lot of mechanics to avoid/dodge which I don't think would have been possible on my old laptop.

I think they should nerf it, but give all the players who beat the duty special titles and/or gear. I remember the anguish I went through when I did Steps of Faith. I ran that so many times before I finally succeeded. Now you can do it with no challenge at all.

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Originally Posted by SonKevin

I remember the anguish I went through when I did Steps of Faith. I ran that so many times before I finally succeeded. Now you can do it with no challenge at all.

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Do the Royal Managerie force you to wait until the time runs out before trying a new round?

Nidhogg Story, and Ozma. You know what those two had in common back in Heavensward?

Several complaint threads? Sure. But that's not it.

No nerfs.

Echo gets added to all trials after they are no longer relevant, but thats natural. There was also gear inflation over time, that's also natural. But those aren't really nerfs, since you have to wipe after a few minutes to get echo.

Mr. Ozma designer got so much love at Las Vegas Fanfest that people cheered when he threw a bone about if people wanted an Ozma Savage.

There is also lot of hype for the extreme version of Royal Managerie, even in this thread.

We know where this is going.

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Originally Posted by Rita1989

It's actually very possible to beat Shiva before she can even use the ground freeze ability so it's possible that its their first time seeing the ability.

It's probably the only ability in the fight you really need to watch out for in the fight so I just macro a warning for it.

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I was talking about during the time when Shiva was actually relevant. It's not the only fight where slippery ice has shown-up though.

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Originally Posted by technole

I was talking about during the time when Shiva was actually relevant. It's not the only fight where slippery ice has shown-up though.

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Gubal Library (normal) Demon Book fight, as an example

I wouldn't be surprised if it did get a nerf and if SE can objectively show data that proves a large portion of the player base is incapable of clearing the content, then I would be fine with a small nerf in places. However I wouldn't be too happy about it as I rather love the fight, just as I loved the original Steps of Faith. I also think that unlike Steps of Faith which was a GROSS spike in difficulty from the casual content most were used to at the time, we've had well over a year and a half worth of increasingly difficult content to clear that's prepared us for this. Each new dungeon has been harder than the last and in SB in particularly there are a few dungeons that many back in ARR would have been screaming to be nerfed had they been implemented back then. The gradual increase in difficulty is what makes me think that we won't see a nerf for this particular instance because quite honestly there's nothing in that fight that you haven't already seen before by that point. It just hits harder and requires liberal use of the sprint button.

(Also unlike Steps of Faith you don't have to do the Walk of Shame back to the party and can dive right back in if you ever happen to die. Which is pretty forgiving compared to the instance this is being compared to.)

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Originally Posted by Mariel_Crystallie

meanwhile .... : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcPf_t79Z7s

xD ... (OwO)b this fight doesn't need a nerf at all . THE END . >:D

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Proof that this does NOT need nerfing if it can be four manned already.

Yeah no... This fight isn't even that challenging. Mechanically the fight is quite simple, and if people aren't sure what the mechanics are then they can ask for a quick rundown or something. Dumbing it down doesn't solve anything, all it does is make players even worse for the big stuff like Susano extreme. It encourages that you be social and try to grasp mechanics. I truly hope they don't nerf it. If you want easy and dumbed down, go play wow. Diffculty doesn't mean bad. It'll probably be nerfed though. You can't "objectively" say it should be, that's like saying hey Dark souls is an rpg, but it's too hard... it should be made easier because I don't like it.

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Originally Posted by Coratanni

Proof that this does NOT need nerfing if it can be four manned already.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTWoy2MxNDQ

Can also be done with 1 tank.

In fact I'm pretty sure it can be 3-manned with flawless gameplay and well-timed mitigation.

P.S. The dead people in the video are just spectators who joined to let us launch and stuck around to watch.

The only nerf is eventually we'll outgear it. That's exactly what happened to Final Steps of Faith.

Its not even difficult though...

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Originally Posted by SonKevin

I think they should nerf it ... I remember the anguish I went through when I did Steps of Faith. I ran that so many times before I finally succeeded. Now you can do it with no challenge at all.

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Doesn't this kind of, I dunno, argue against nerfing it? You had to learn and get better to beat something that now, after nerf, takes no skill to clear. The reason it was nerfd anyway was because it took too long to reset if you failed a mechanic, no you can fail one and still win.

A funny little way they could "nerf" it, is to say in the next patch "Hey, we nerfed it"
But actually do nothing to it.

Everyone would say, wow, its soooo much easier now! when in reality, most ppl know how to do it, and are over geared for it.

Its not "over tuned" its just barely about right.
It requires effort, but it doesnt require skill.
I have a few friends who could never beat an EX/savage mode fight ever, and can easily clear it.
It's just a matter of learning what to do, and from there, just do it badly, and thats still enough.

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

A funny little way they could "nerf" it, is to say in the next patch "Hey, we nerfed it"
But actually do nothing to it.

Everyone would say, wow, its soooo much easier now! when in reality, most ppl know how to do it, and are over geared for it.

Its not "over tuned" its just barely about right.
It requires effort, but it doesnt require skill.
I have a few friends who could never beat an EX/savage mode fight ever, and can easily clear it.
It's just a matter of learning what to do, and from there, just do it badly, and thats still enough.

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I remember reading on League of Legends where Riot Games was going to nerf Riven, put the nerf in the notes, but forgot to put it in. Her win rate still went down and people were blaming the nerf that never happened.

So it could work.

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

The only nerf is eventually we'll outgear it. That's exactly what happened to Final Steps of Faith.

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That's what happens in every trial though.

The only "nerf" that this fight deserves to get is the Echo. That's it. The fight itself is fine, and while yes it is a annoying difficulty spike, it doesn't have the same kind of wall that the original Steps of Faith had. At least in this fight, if you wipe, you try again. With steps, you could easily know you failed and you'd have to wait till the dragon got to the end and bashed the ward down to leave. Without taking the penalty, that is.

Too bad Echo does absolutely nothing to stop ringouts. Same reason why it didn't help for Titan, Coil, countless others...

The only part of the fight I would see Echo really helping with would be the meteor phase, and I'm not sure you're even at the 3 minute mark at that point in the fight yet.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Too bad Echo does absolutely nothing to stop ringouts. Same reason why it didn't help for Titan, Coil, countless others...

The only part of the fight I would see Echo really helping with would be the meteor phase, and I'm not sure you're even at the 3 minute mark at that point in the fight yet.

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Ringout mechanics require people to know their own position, which attacks do knockback and how they push you, and if you HAVE to get hit by an attack that may knock you off, how to position your self so you only get hurt and not fall off instead (for example, his phase 2 huge area dash move). I've had to purposely position myself a few times because i knew i wouldnt make it to the "Safe" zone. I took the hit and the vun debuff, but I'm alive. This requires some skill, yes, but it shouldn't need to be changed. At least if you fall off you only die, and are not out of the fight permanently.

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Originally Posted by Lynde

At least if you fall off you only die, and are not out of the fight permanently.

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Yeah, for story mode duties I can get behind that. But for Extreme/Savage content at least, off should mean off, if I'm being perfectly honest with you. Tune them harder, make them more punishing. Isn't that the whole point of Extreme/Savage content? To challenge people. Since your HM primals and Normal mode raids cover your story, so they should be more forgiving. I'd even have it apply retroactively. So if you fall off in a normal/HM primal, you get whisked back up to the platform to be revived. If you fall off in an Ex primal, it's over for you in that attempt.

Same for normal raids vs Savage raids. Fall off in normal, no big deal. Fall off in Savage, game over.

So after reading the first page of the response post I couldn't disagree more. Enough of these knee-jerk reactions to "this is too hard crap", your a gamer figure it out! If your concerned about gear DO YOUR LEVEL 70 JOB QUEST, EQUIP THE GEAR AND WEAPON! They literally gave HQ accessories as quest rewards for every class and materia. I went in as dps had my relic gear and a mix of accessories ranging from shire to level 69 dungeon drops. Only 3 others knew the fight, we wiped once and that was it. There is no real punishing mechanics in that fight.

It shouldn't be nerfed just because average player skill is absolutely abysmal - it's wrong for a game to be dumbed constantly for the ever increasing lazy masses who just don't want to improve. As people level and gear up it will counter the difficulty and they will be carried much like steps of faith. There has to be a line.

See post above on how easy it already is.

It's been how long learn your class stop asking to make our game easier when you can't be bothered to put in the effort yourself
Get your dungeons drops, buy vendor food, use your materia hand outs and spend some time learning the dam fight.
It's the same instant gratification BS all over again from AAR, SE literally hands you guys everything and puts it in your nice new expanded inventory, holds your hands all the way through and you all can't be bothered to learn the dam fight.
I know I'm gonna get a bunch of shade thrown at me and negative reactions but it needs to be said...LBR nailed it 110% if you support this fight getting nerfed Your all a bunch of pussies!