No drama here, just bringing some light to an ongoing issue most feel "ok" with. The intention behind my argument is to deter the (already existent) increase of items in the Cash Shop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosmos992k
Mog Station is overpriced.
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11-02-2016, 07:17 AMKasathar
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11-02-2016, 07:36 AMKosmos992kAs I said in one of my replies somewhere above, I'm not of with the inclusion of past event items which has seriously inflated the number of items on the Mogstation. I think if those items specifically were excluded from the MogStation, then all that would remain is truly a trivial number of items, which is how I feel it should remain. The inclusion of past event items is a mistake IMHO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasathar
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11-02-2016, 07:39 AMMugiawara
Add Anime School Girl/Boy uniforms for $400, and $600 for dyeable versions.
You also get a a Oblivious idiot or Overpowered egoist anime boy and a Tsundere or Yandere girl minion of your choice!
For a $100 upgrade you can also get a "N-not like I care about you or anything..." or "Senpai notice me!" emote!
Tax applies. -
11-02-2016, 08:04 AMAstralKaosDon't forget the "I believe everything a company tells me" t-shirt that comes free with each purchase. Also the hand in wallet grabbing minion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugiawara
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11-02-2016, 08:17 AMTeryaaniQuote:
Originally Posted by Mugiawara
Yes, lets characterize people we don't agree with as clueless idiots. That makes us want to engage you.Quote:
Originally Posted by AstralKaos
http://replygif.net/i/1127.gif -
11-02-2016, 08:29 AMAstralKaosWhat? I don't see disagreement with anybody in my post, maybe you're interpreting things wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teryaani
And this "us" I supposedly want to engage with is whom, exactly? I'm not looking to engage with anybody other than the person I replied to - my previous engaging on the topic itself was several pages back I believe; though if I'm honest I forget entirely what I posted. -
11-02-2016, 08:30 AMMugiawaraI was actually making a joke but I'm as lost as you lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by AstralKaos
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11-02-2016, 08:34 AMAstralKaosOh, I know it's a joke, I was adding extra items to it lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Mugiawara
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11-02-2016, 08:37 AMJandorIt's not a necessary evil though, the shop isn't needed at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shyngo
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11-02-2016, 08:51 AMKaurieTechnically, you are inferring it as a clueless idiot. All (s)he said is that people are believing everything Square tells them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teryaani
If you believe that one believing everything a company tells them makes one a clueless idiot, then why do you blindly believe what Yoshi says in regards to the cash shop paying for EU servers? If you don't believe this, then you why do use the word "us"? Conversely, if you don't believe that one believing everything a company tells them makes one a clueless idiot, then why did you make the inference? -
11-02-2016, 09:00 AMWelsper59It unfortunately is these days, at least in the case of big companies that don't focus their entire future on a single product. Outside of failure, the worst thing you can do is be viewed as stale (money wise) to the higher ups, especially when their focus can easily be shifted to other products they have lined up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandor
If you can't accept that the cash shop actually benefits the players in more ways than just the goods a consumer buys, then you don't understand business enough to really make that call. It certainly has downsides, but it's obviously not just that.
This topic itself should be a wake up call that Square Enix, which includes the devs for FFXIV, operate under a business. A successful product is not determined by the players nor the devs, it's determined by the higher ups that will compare FFXIV's net income to other products of its line (i.e. "Digital Entertainment"). -
11-02-2016, 09:05 AMPaladinleedsYep. Essentially this. All the higher ups care about is money. And the money coming in has to increase every single day. So expect more price increases. Indeed, I wager from 2017 a single mount will start costing a few thousand pounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Welsper59
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11-02-2016, 09:10 AMAmetrine
It just makes you sound like jerks towards those of us who don't mind vanity items in the cash shop, or can budget money into it.
We all support the game with a subscription. Some of us take it further with the cash shop or merchandise. Some even go to fanfest or bought the streams. It's all the same thing! We're buying the content we want, and not buying what we don't!
Why do people feel like the existence of a cash shop is somehow taking advantage of them? How is having the option of putting more money into SE hurting us all as players? -
11-02-2016, 09:11 AMMugiawara
I just wish stuff like this was in event's.
People like instant gratification and are willing to spend their money asap
than grind in a video game. :/
Or give us options to do either or. -
11-02-2016, 09:11 AMTeryaaniOh obfuscation. Neither "joke" was in response to anyone. Both characterized people using the cash shop ("us") as being gullible. "Clueless idiot" worked fine as convenient shorthand. Want to know my problem? People keep trying to make this discussion un-nuanced and tribal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaurie
People who use the cash shop aren't sheep. People who oppose the cash shop aren't entitled. There are degrees, I recognize that. -
11-02-2016, 09:19 AMSigmaOZ
Nothing on the Mog Station should cost more than a whole month worth of subscription time, that is ~US$15.00 but prices keep skyrocketing to ridiculous heights!...
I always thought a cash shop would kill this game eventually, first going F2P then becoming cheaper and cheaper (in quality) to the point it won't be a business anymore and SE will end up just ceasing support!...
Maybe they're already working on the next FF Online and are just fooling around with FFXIV in the meanwhile, whatever the case I wonder how long will optional items be worth!... :rolleyes: -
11-02-2016, 09:19 AMKaurieI don't feel it is taking advantage of me, because I don't take part in it. I feel that they are moving more and more into a hybrid business model, where they have micro-transactions as well as subs. Micro-transactions, typically, were reserved for free games. This method seems like double-dipping, so-to-speak. I personally see very little reason to pay twice for stuff, and am encouraged more and more to go play Guild Wars 2 or Wildstar. Even in Wildstar, you can change your race without real money. In Guild Wars 2, you can purchase anything on the cash shop with real money or gold. Both games have better systems towards their consumers, and before you ask, the main reason why i am not over there is because my friends play here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ametrine
In terms of your question, if you agree with that, then why don't you donate more money? At what point does giving Square more money go from being beneficial to too much?
Fair enough. I wouldn't say gullible, so much as naive, to be honest. I think that it is naive to accept the explanation that the cash shop paid for Europe servers. Undoubtedly, the money was already available. I do admit there is a possibility that the higher ups agreed to putting money into EU servers, only if the dev team could provide increased revenue through a cash shop. I wouldn't say the money from the cash shop is going to the servers though, especially as those servers are up and running, and new items and higher prices are continuously added.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teryaani
I'll admit, the tone of the post you responded to did seem condescending, though. -
11-02-2016, 09:32 AMDevilsDontFly
As much as I agree that yes, the prices are way too high and should never be higher than U$15, there's always someone at the forums saying things like "I don't even care I would pay 30 bucks for this hairstyle please SE put it on mogstation!11!!1".
Then SE be like: "Oh, so people are agreeing that it should cost 30 bucks at most? Nice. Let's make it a 25 bucks hairstyle everyone's going to be happy."
Thing is: As long as there's people thinking about "Put it on mogstation no matter what" instead of "put it ingame as a reward", the prices will stay high.
Everyone complained about the chinese outfit's prices at MogStation and yet five minutes after it was added and I logged into the game half of the server had it on.
Some people preffer instant gratification via micro-transactions, some people rather to achieve it through playing the game. I'm okay with both, but saying things like "I would gladly pay 50 bucks for that mount" just to get attention from the developers isn't the right way to do so.
If the prices are so stupid we are the ones to blame for it. -
11-02-2016, 09:33 AMJandorSo you're saying, if the community by some miracle agreed to boycott the cash shop, SE would shutdown FFXIV? Despite the fact that it's a well liked financially stable product raking in tons of cash from subs alone? Despite selling mountains of copies of the game? Despite at one point crediting it with almost single-highhandedly saving the company?Quote:
Originally Posted by Welsper59
The higher ups would look at it and think "nah, it didn't make as much as FFXV this month, pull the plug!"? -
11-02-2016, 09:41 AMPaladinleedsNot necessarily pull the plug, but you bet they'd demand to cover that lost money elsewhere. So you'd be looking at heavily increased subscription costs, or heavily increased expansion pack costs (imagine Stormblood costing $150 to buy the standard edition).Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandor
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11-02-2016, 09:47 AMAirget
I doubt SE would ever been this transparent about the cash shop but imo the cash shop provides the following resources, it's what allowed European Servers to exist, physical merchandise to be made and Fanfest to occur. If you just went by the subscription alone and did nothing else to gain support from the fanbase odds are there would be no funds allocated to do the above, especially the next big change, server upgrades with the dropping of the ps3.
Though I am pretty sure at one point they did comment how it's the cash shop that does help support the drive to do fanfest because when they see the support of fans purchasing merchandise for the game and gaining in-game items, it shows there is a market in which they will be able to sell out tickets for their fanfest. -
11-02-2016, 09:49 AMLunafreyaYou feel so dedicated to giving SE money for overpriced stuff because it will help the game. Why are you under that impression anyway? What if that money is going into future dlc for FFXV? And there's no excuse for the price of this new dress yet again at 18 bucks. Nobody is stupid enough to think these are actually worth that amount surely? I get it, you are supporting the game but at the same time you are also supporting more of this shite in the future. Why does every person or nearly everyone have to say "i'd pay a good amount of money for that" All you do is get SE to make the price high.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ametrine
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11-02-2016, 09:54 AMIlan
SE is a company and a company is always looking for ways to make more money and that is where the itemshop comes into the game. I mean its not that anyone of you would do it in a different way if you would be in SE's place. :rolleyes:
You pay the monthly fees for a very good working game with content updates in regular intervals and not more.
But yes i think most of the things in the IS are way to expensive and thats why i don't buy them especially since there are enough good looking glamours ingame. -
11-02-2016, 09:55 AMPaladinleedsIf you mean the Korean dress, if it works like the Chinese dress, then we're actually already getting it a smidgen cheaper than what the Koreans paid for it. Which was originally meant to be exclusive to them so as to make up for censorship elsewhrere. Now imagine if they lost that exclusivity, and then the people who took that exclusivity from them got it a LOT cheaper than what they paid for it. Do you think that'd go down well with the Chinese/Korean censored games? You think we're kicking up a fuss about it, oh we'd be tame compared to what they would let out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunafreya
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11-02-2016, 10:02 AMLunafreyaI don't understand why them being exclusive to a region means it has to be high in the first place. That's why I feel mogstation is overpriced. I could get 3 premium costumes in a fighting game like street fighter for not even 7 dollars.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladinleeds
Not to sound like a jerk or anything but it is YOUR money and you are free to do whatever you want with it but there are some of us who think this stuff isn't worth it at this price and think rationally. -
11-02-2016, 10:07 AMJandor
SE is a company, it exists to make money. That's what the cash shop is for. You'll pay it, so they'll charge it.
If anyone thinks an entity that only exists to part you from your money is being truthful when it says 'you only get this' and 'you only get that' because they added a layer of not so micro-transactions over a layer of subscription costs over a foundation of base game and expansion pack costs, well... I don't know what to say to that. -
11-02-2016, 10:12 AMPaladinleedsWe're paying around the same price they paid in the exclusive regions for something that wasn't originally supposed to come to us in the first place. I won't be buying it (I use way too much fantasia and without a way to change the gender of the item without purchasing it again, I'm not paying $40, sorry). That said, I understand why they did it, even if it is too expensive for my taste.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunafreya
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11-02-2016, 10:15 AMBakaChin
yes yes it's overpriced but daaaamn...that dress though *opens wallet*cries*
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11-02-2016, 10:46 AMBlim
Well, at the end of the day, this debate will never have a consensus. It's basically akin to forcing somebody else to like a particular brand of beer; that's not gonna happen.
My rationale: SE is a company that exists to make money. They are not a charity. It is a listed company existing for the purpose of making money and to generate returns to its shareholders. That's how the world works.
If it's not making money, investors pull out funds, the company runs into financial problems and the game goes bust.
The items in the cash shop are called "OPTIONAL ITEMS" in capital letters. Nobody is forcing you to purchase it.Even if its $200, $500, if there is somebody paying it, that item will be there. If the price is too high, nobody is going to buy it and prices will then have to be adjusted back based on demand and the realization that the consumers are not going to stomach those prices. The only question is - where exactly is this value where the consumer says "it is too much to stomach".
SE is not FORCING anybody to buy OPTIONAL ITEMS. You can choose to buy it, you can choose NOT to buy it. At the end of the day, you the consumer have a choice. If you're not happy, SE cannot force you to loosen your purse strings; you can choose to leave the game, terminate the subscription; boycott the company's products' nobody is stopping you, because that is YOUR CHOICE as well.
If you choose to pay for it, it is because you feel it adds a form of satisfaction to your gaming experience.
Freedom of choice is the operative word here. Nobody is forcing you to pay what you feel is overpriced or underpriced.
If you find the item overpriced, that is subjective, it is YOUR view/perspective relative to your surrounding circumstances, it may not be so for ANOTHER person who may find it reasonable. By insisting incessantly that X item is overpriced, it is akin to trying to force your opinion on others who have exactly this freedom of choice and opinion to feel that they are satisfied with what they paid for.
These X items are overpriced / mogstation is overpriced threads just need to be clamped and closed. Full of rants by people masquerading as warriors of social and corporate justice when all they are thinking of is imposing their one sided opinions on others and hoping to somehow convert more people to their cause. Just stop playing the game if it causes so much angst. It's not worth paying the monthly subscription just so you can say you're a paying customer unhappy with the cash shop; bring your business elsewhere as many have suggested. -
11-02-2016, 10:51 AMCosmicKirbyAh man. I'm sure a handful of people loudly yelling on the forum would have convinced them they didn't need more money. If only people didn't disagree with you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Celef
Darn.
I'm so upset. -
11-02-2016, 12:30 PMAstralKaosThere's no condescending intention in my post, I can assure you of that. I don't need to be condescending to say something I wish to say, which is evident in my first post in this topic where I call those believing that cash shop earnings get put back into this game decently are "gullible fools".Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaurie
And for the record, I have used the cash shop myself for Fantasia's and one outfit, YET I hold the opinion that it shouldn't be here when it's still a sub MMO. And that the prices and content quality are absurd - can't dye, some are multi-slot taking, not account-wide etc etc. My use of it that one time does make me a hypocrite, sure, but I don't for one second delude myself into thinking it will fund anything substantial nor does it mean said item wouldn't be here without it. -
11-02-2016, 01:13 PMChocolys
@Blim: You make good points, but there is still economical valid arguments about the community discussing about overpricing.
For example is it better for SE to sell 2000x Mount at $5 (Total: $10000), or 500x Mount at $15 (Total: $7500), furthermore where it costs kind of nothing to digitally produce 2000x or 500x.
And so as a customer it is legitimate feedback information to say that you estimate the price to be too high for you to order at all, but that you would be willing to purchase more items if the prices were lower. -
11-02-2016, 01:23 PMBakaChin
I'll be honest, i really don't mind the cash shop because all in all it serves for those who want to look good. There are no pay 2 win items so why stress over something so trivial. Just my personal opinion.
you have the choice to buy something from it or not. if you choose not to buy anything then it won't affect your game at all. -
11-02-2016, 05:29 PMAlex2015
If you're really desiring or being attracted by these items in Mog Station, that means the inside value of these items does the purpose, so SE can set any prices on them. I think SE did extremely cheap price on them. These unrelated game content's items should be charged over $50. Cash shop means a hard way to gain something that you've missed but indeed really, really, really wanted, but it should not be a cheap way. For example, we got seasonal items free if we were on time during the period, but someone has to pay for it if he/she didn't attend in time. To compare between free and cost, it's a significant difference. So cash shop should experience or overpriced, that's nothing wrong about.
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11-02-2016, 05:55 PMMihana
I have to say I do think the prices are a little absurd, and I can't see them being justified for some objects. The magitek mounts for example are just palette swaps of the main story one which you get for free. And that a lot of the things are character exclusive is annoying. I suppose I should just be grateful they didn't make some of these into those "grab bag" type things you see on other F2P MMOs out there. I hate those things. At least here you know buying the Far Eastern Garb will get you the Far Eastern Garb and not a chance at it.
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11-02-2016, 08:08 PMPaladinleedsSo what if we made it so those seasonal items cost over 500 billion dollars? Would that be considered expensive enough for you? Actually no let's make it 500 octodecillion dollars (5, then one hundred and ten 0's after). Is that expensive enough for you? I want to know what you deem as what the price should be set at since you said it should be overpriced.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex2015
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11-02-2016, 08:16 PMBlimThe same could be said about everybody harping about something being overpriced. NOBODY is going to reach a consensus on what is overpriced. It's your word against my word, your perspective against my perspective. The only common denominator is - you have a free choice to buy it or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladinleeds
For crying out loud. ALL you guys who keep harping bout overpriced overpriced overpriced, you're are all in the same boat as everyone, realize this. The only issue being
1. people on the end screaming about something is overpriced or not to be in the cash shop are on 1 end of the spectrum where anything over even a cent is considered overpriced. Their tolerance value is 0
2. people willing to pay eg. $20 for the item have a tolerance value of 20
3. people willing to pay $100 for the item have a tolerance value of 100
At the end of the day, it is all the same. The only difference is where your tolerance level for the price of something is and it lies at various points on this spectrum.
The question that needs to be answered is not constantly shouting that something is overpriced because being overpriced is a relative concept. The CRUX is where is this absolute value where every potential consumer finally says "it is not feasible to tolerate this pricing" THAT my friend is the absolute OBJECTIVE price that can be approximated to what you have been calling OVERPRICED, because that is value when the market indicates that it derives NO value from paying that said amount.
SE will then have to adjust it again based on this realization.
You can cry till the cows come home about X being overpriced and nothing will change because everybody has a different idea of what overpriced is. -
11-02-2016, 08:24 PMNatSilverguard$500 octodecillion dollars, what mog station is on sale? really cheap imho...Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladinleeds
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11-02-2016, 08:44 PMPaladinleedsI was more trying to figure out what he would want us to pay for the items. Trying to probe for his viewpoint. Though I get what you're saying, everyone has different values of what constitutes a fair price. Using the Korean/Chinese attire as an example, if they let me change the gender of the item at the Calamity Salvager (I use way too much fantasia), then I could justify spending £12 (since that's what we pay in the UK). But as I'd have to buy it twice so I could use either gender at any time no matter what gender I am, that's where my tolerance goes too far. And it doesn't matter what the price is really, that issue would still stand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blim
I got someone else using octodecillion, I am happy.Quote:
Originally Posted by NatSilverguard
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11-02-2016, 08:52 PMPrincessNuri
Supply and Demand....just like marketboard prices, it is how profits and losses are measured. Think MarketBoard, it has been this way a long time.
There are always other games you can migrate to if this is too much for you. You like this game? You like those items? Then either buy it, get a friend to gift you or just forget about it.