Block first timers from Party Finder!

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

The option would be exactly that, an option. It would be used to help form farm parties, which new players shouldn't even be going near.

I'm not asking them to take away anything. Players can still use party finder, they don't have to resort to /shout. All this is doing is stopping people from joining parties they are not supposed to be joining.

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Farm parties aren't even gauranteed to clear with experienced players. Should we disable pf for people that wipe a certain number of times too?

How about put their name in red every time for the rest of the day for leaving a duty?

I get it, jp onry, have mutiple clears or you are replaced after 2 strikes. Treat the pf and others like machinery, but you do it.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Farm parties aren't even gauranteed to clear with experienced players. Should we disable pf for people that wipe a certain number of times too?

How about put their name in red every time for the rest of the day for leaving a duty?

I get it, jp onry, have mutiple clears or you are replaced after 2 strikes. Treat the pf and others like machinery, but you do it, don't demand every party do it.

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Nobody's demanding anything. I think you missed the part where it's intended to be an option.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Nobody's demanding anything. I think you missed the part where it's intended to be an option.

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Oh yes, an "option", that every farm party will be expected to have.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Farm parties aren't even gauranteed to clear with experienced players. Should we disable pf for people that wipe a certain number of times too?

How about put their name in red every time for the rest of the day for leaving a duty?

I get it, jp onry, have mutiple clears or you are replaced after 2 strikes. Treat the pf and others like machinery, but you do it.

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Why are you talking about disabling PF lol?
There would be "Ravana Extreme Farm Party" with "People who cleared this duty" option checked, anyone who cleared Ravana Extreme would be able to join, anyone who haven't would have the party gray, so they won't be able to join it.

You are completely exaggerating.

No one is entitled to get carried by people who put their effort to clear some duty to be able to farm it unless they want to help.

EDIT:
People who get into farm parties without clear and without saying anything to party leader in advance are getting kicked and blacklisted anyways, the only difference between what we have now and what we would have with special option is, that party leaders wouldn't have to bother with them and waste their time.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Farm parties aren't even gauranteed to clear with experienced players. Should we disable pf for people that wipe a certain number of times too?

How about put their name in red every time for the rest of the day for leaving a duty?

I get it, jp onry, have mutiple clears or you are replaced after 2 strikes. Treat the pf and others like machinery, but you do it, don't demand every party do it.

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What's the harm in blocking those that haven't completed the quest though. Honestly, it's remarkably easy to setup a clear party if that is your aim. Isn't forcing people to help just as bad as people not wanting to help. People who are doing something for a specific reason shouldn't have to shoulder extra problems because somebody doesn't want to take the time to set up their own clear party. It has nothing absolutely nothing to do with elitism. Time for everyone is important. Just because people need a clear does not mean that the time of those that have cleared is any less valuable.

I agree that no party is a guaranteed clear, but a farm party is going to clear 9/10 times, especially after doing it a few times. Clear parties might spend the hour just to get one, where a farm party is bound get get 3-6 in that same time. That's a far greater chance of getting a drop.

Additionally, almost anyone is willing to take 1 or 2 new people if they are aware that they are new. It's the guys who come in and don't say anything that are very frustrating to deal with.

This option would not make ALL parties farm parties. Far from it, it would make a more clear vision of what a party is looking for. PF would not be harmed by making it more defined.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Farm parties aren't even gauranteed to clear with experienced players. Should we disable pf for people that wipe a certain number of times too?

How about put their name in red every time for the rest of the day for leaving a duty?

I get it, jp onry, have mutiple clears or you are replaced after 2 strikes. Treat the pf and others like machinery, but you do it.

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Of course they're not guaranteed to clear. The best, most hardcore players on the game aren't guaranteed to clear.

The fact is that players shouldn't be using parties specifically stated for one thing, and using them for another. I don't see what's so hard to understand about this.

I don't really like anything that excludes other's without having firm rule enforcements in play.

So if this would be a thing it would need to be an Option as stated by the OP. But if the option is selected 'EVERYONE' in the party must have already cleared the instance. This information is easily available to the server.

What do I mean by everyone? I mean everyone in the party at the time that the Leader sets the group up must of already completed the instance for this 'Farm Exclusive' option to be available. This would prevent people setting up a 'Farm' group but inviting their mate along for the ride or W/e just because of the "I'm the leader" excuse.

This would prevent double standards from those who want it to exclude new players but boost their mate. And keep things open for new players via making any situation where a new player is involved will automatically become an 'Open to all' party within the ilvl limits.

P.S - I've never used the Party Finder system as thankfully I have a rather active Free Company and Friend List and benefit heavily from being a Tank Main. So my post is purely based on what my idea of a reasonably 'fair' system would be from an outsider.

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

Why are you talking about disabling PF lol?
There would be "Ravana Extreme Farm Party" with "People who cleared this duty" option checked, anyone who cleared Ravana Extreme would be able to join, anyone who haven't would have the party gray, so they won't be able to join it.

You are completely exaggerating.

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I just really don't like trusting some of these changes in this thread and others as it sounds like closing ranks around content to the exclusion of others, there is nothing social, there is only performance.

It honestly doesn't seem--right.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

I just really don't like trusting some of these changes as it sounds like closing ranks around content to the exclusion of others, there is nothing social, there is only performance.

It honestly doesn't seem right.

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This happens already though. Additionally it happens with great drama because people will straight up lie and say they've cleared it until you get into the fight and get that magical bonus tome message. If anything it would reduce the drama involved in farm parties. Again, it's not like it couldn't be disabled if someone asked and everyone in the farm was cool with it.

I know i've cleared in farm parties, but I've always asked ahead of time. I've been turned down before, but it's usually the other way around. Especially if I mention that I've done my research on the fight.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

I just really don't like trusting some of these changes as it sounds like closing ranks around content to the exclusion of others, there is nothing social, there is only performance.

It honestly doesn't seem right.

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Sigh.. It's the exclusion of others when they SHOULD be excluded. Why is it wrong that some players want to farm something without having to carry a new player and watching them leave afterwards, or them not having a clue what to do? Players are allowed to have their own game time without being forced to help every single person they come across.

The whole 'social' aspect vanished as soon as people started ignoring players party finder rules and disrespecting players by wasting their time or using their groups for a clear. You're completely misunderstanding the point of this thread.

Besides, you know this happens anyway right? People disband groups as soon as they see the bonus message. All this is doing it removing the inconvenience.

Ok, I guess the title got to me. I've kinda wondered about preventing this in certain runs, but didn't want to be rude to people in game. I'm sorry to the OP.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Ok, I guess the title got to me. I've kinda wondered about preventing this in certain runs, but didn't want to be rude to people in game. I'm sorry to the OP.

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It's pretty common in the thread lol. The title is really misleading...

I know the OP petitioned to have it changed but no dice.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Okay, firstly, why are you bumping this thread without meaningful input? Can we not leave it go the way of all other poorly thought out ideas?

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I just want to point this out for future reference.

There is nothing wrong with bumping a thread which is a few days apart and it's off the first page. Especially if it's something people would like to see addressed and hopefully further discussed.

As for no input bit, I already shared my input. It's a few pages back, if you're curious to know what my stance is. If there is nothing more to add, bumping the thread can help give more insight from new people. Thus, more discussion.

No hard feelings, though.

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Originally Posted by VanillaWafer

I just want to point this out for future reference.

There is nothing wrong with bumping a thread which is a few days apart and it's off the first page. Especially if it's something people would like to see addressed and hopefully further discussed.

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Although, the moderators do ask it's users to refrain from "bumping" a thread, just for the sake of "bumping" it.

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Originally Posted by Gildrein

Welcome to Forum: General Discussion!
The purpose of this forum is for players to discuss various topics on FINAL FANTASY XIV with other players.

Please take time to read the following rules and the FINAL FANTASY XIV Forum Guidelines(North America/UK) before you post or start a discussion.

General Forum Rules:

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• Please use the search function placed at the top of the forum to see if your questions have already been answered. If there happens to be a thread with similar topics, please divert your questions to that particular thread.
• Please do not make a simple post just for the purpose of "bumping" a thread.

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It's ok if you want to keep the thread relevant, but you can best do so by adding more info to it. Not by just "Bump /10char" it or something similar. It doesn't really matter if the thread is not on the first page. If people have something to add to it, they can also use the search function (which is also advised by the moderators).

I always find it funny when people complain about bumping.

Not only are they bumping - they're also off topic. A massive double fail of sorts.

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Thinking on this I do hope this gets added. I have too many people who try to sneak into a1s weekly clears - or even worst, leading them after I boot them for not knowing the fight demanding everyone else knows the fight. While I don't think this makes the majority, it does prove that there are players with this fundamental deficiency that want to try and sneak a carry.

I agree with this. Had someone sneak into our A2 weekly clear party before. It's pretty hard to fill up a PF for savage, and then when the party gets in and the bonus pops up... :( . Waiting around 1hr in PF and then having the decent people rage quit because of 1 player is not fun.

I agree with the concept behind this, but I'm not sure that clearing a fight says anything about your skill or understanding of it. All those people that were carried through previously would still qualify for your farm group.

I hate to say it, but the only way you're going to guarantee experience is by actually knowing the people.

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Originally Posted by Mychael

I agree with the concept behind this, but I'm not sure that clearing a fight says anything about your skill or understanding of it. All those people that were carried through previously would still qualify for your farm group.

I hate to say it, but the only way you're going to guarantee experience is by actually knowing the people.

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Well obviously previous clears would get by. This is far from the end of the game though. The sooner this is introduced the better its effectivness.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Oh yes, an "option", that every farm party will be expected to have.

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If certain players respected the requirements others set in party finder there would not be anyone asking for this option.

Tell players if they don't want new players in there party to not use DF and set up a PF party. Yet when they set up a PF party asking for experienced players they are getting new players joining without asking or saying anything.

And you don't think the problems stem from those lieing, as that is what they are doing when they join a PF party asking for requirements that they do not meet. Blame those who have caused others to require this option, not those asking for it.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Well obviously previous clears would get by. This is far from the end of the game though. The sooner this is introduced the better its effectivness.

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And bad players will continue to join open groups, whether they've cleared or not. New ≠ Bad, Experienced ≠ Good.

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Originally Posted by Mychael

And bad players will continue to join open groups, whether they've cleared or not. New ≠ Bad, Experienced ≠ Good.

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Thing is they joining parties without filling the requirements that the PF creater has asked for, it only takes a minute to ask the PF leader and explain there situation and give the party leader the choice of taking them along or not. If they agree and it's a disaster, they went in knowingly. It's polite to ask first, it's not when someone enters a party asking for clear experience and doesn't say anything until the party enters the content and the bonus tomes message shows up. How much of an impression do you tink that will leave when they find out who it is? Not to mention wasting peoples time.

It wont stop run buyers and those who get carried joining, but it would reduce it. Also it may have the knock on benefit of more players joining learning parties if they know they can't sneak into a farm party to get their clear. As I can imagine their thought process of being something like "Why should I spend time wiping on learning the content when I can just sneak into a farm party and get the others to do it for me?"

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

It wont stop run buyers and those who get carried joining, but it would reduce it. Also it may have the knock on benefit or more players joining learning parties if they know they can't sneak into a farm party to get their clear.

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I couldn't agree more. I'm not saying there isn't a problem, just that nothing could be changed in the Party Finder that would actually fix it. Bad players will continue to find ways to sneak into your group.. I see so many 'bad' people in groups and it has nothing to do with the first time clear. A lot of new (to the content) players have studied every guide available and will outperform others.

Don't get me wrong, an "Experienced Players Only" checkbox on the PF could help, but it's <10% of the problem. If only there could be a "Don't Suck" checkbox--but people would ignore it just like they do the current ones.

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Originally Posted by Mychael

Snip.

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I love the point you brought up about new to content players studying and outperforming "experienced" players here are one examples..

Was having a crappy day farming ravana as the farm parties were worse then learning ones....

I tried one last party which had "Ravana ex farm pt, bonus are welcomed if they know the fight" I thought hmmm might go bad but why not try.....go in 5 of the ppl are bonus, I fear for my life lol but needless to say we killed him 5 consecutive times after clearing him the first time which has completely changed my side of this argument...I prefer the skilled and knowledgeable over just a clear....sorry but the proof is in the horrible farm parties XD

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Originally Posted by Pyroxene

It's established that Duty Finder is a random thing

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Do you know the difference between Duty Finder (not what this thread is about) and Party Finder (what this thread is about)?

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Originally Posted by Moonleg

Do you know the difference between Duty Finder (not what this thread is about) and Party Finder (what this thread is about)?

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Narcissistic comments aside. I misread, my apologies

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Originally Posted by Mychael

And bad players will continue to join open groups, whether they've cleared or not. New ≠ Bad, Experienced ≠ Good.

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Thank you for stating the obvious. But what does your comment have to do with the thread.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Tell players if they don't want new players in there party to not use DF and set up a PF party. Yet when they set up a PF party asking for experienced players they are getting new players joining without asking or saying anything.

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You forgot the part where you get accused of being an elitist prick simply because you'd like to farm for awhile. xD

How does this thread get to 32 pages?
As someone has probably said, add a checkbox for when you're creating a PF group that locks out people who haven't cleared the content yet. People who want to farm can check the box, people who want to clear get leave it alone.

We get it, having the clear doesn't always mean the person is any good, but at least this gives you the choice in whether you want to run that risk or not, the only people this change would effect would be those people who jump into farm groups who clearly state no tome bonus, and then watch as the group falls apart because when you go in, someone has a tome bonus and refuses to admit it was them.

Dunno how anyone could be opposed to this, it has zero drawbacks and just lets people control their OWN group a little better.

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Originally Posted by Jamein

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It's literally the only thing that the OP has asked for....

There has been a ton of discussion about how this is somehow elitist or something.

Yeah I don't get it either.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Ok, I guess the title got to me. I've kinda wondered about preventing this in certain runs, but didn't want to be rude to people in game. I'm sorry to the OP.

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No worries, I completely understand about the title, I've petitioned to have it changed myself, another player also did for me, and I changed it via editing but unfortunately it hasn't changed. The thread itself explains in more detail what I'm asking for :)

Any Forum moderators able to change the title of the thread yet please? I'd like to continue discussion but don't want players to misinterpret the thread due to my terrible wording.

Thank you.

Hmm.... Not so sure about this idea. As useful as it is, it'd lower a new player's confidence most likely resulting in less active/subcribing players looking for those to party with (Friends blah blah irrelevant). FF14 is good at making new players feel welcomed (not sure for veteran players) so to add this mode would deviate from that reputation and maybe draw in a different player base entirely.

The weird moment where someone who has completed the fight actually dies more than someone is new..don't be quick to judge someone who hasn't completed the fight. Besides, it could just be someone on an alt.

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Originally Posted by Kurogaea

Hmm.... Not so sure about this idea. As useful as it is, it'd lower a new player's confidence most likely resulting in less active/subcribing players looking for those to party with (Friends blah blah irrelevant). FF14 is good at making new players feel welcomed (not sure for veteran players) so to add this mode would deviate from that reputation and maybe draw in a different player base entirely.

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Why? The only people it effects are those who lie about having the clear. The PF groups are set up by players, if players want to only open their group to people who have cleared content that is their choice, it already happens, the only thing this feature would change is that you don't suddenly fill your party, go into a dungeon and get the random tomestone bonus message and spend 10 minutes asking who lied and said they had the clear when they didn't for the group to ultimately disband because no one will admit it.

Clear groups are in PF, farm groups are PF. That's how it has always worked. We're simply talking about adding an option for more control over your PF group to save you from people who aren't honest, I've had farm groups before where someone has PM'd me and said hey look I don't have the clear but I have gotten to x%, if they are honest and upfront about it, I'll might say sure I'll give you a shot.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

The weird moment where someone who has completed the fight actually dies more than someone is new..don't be quick to judge someone who hasn't completed the fight. Besides, it could just be someone on an alt.

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You're completely missing the point. It's not just about players skill level. People also sneak into farm parties to find a competent group to clear because they're too lazy to create their own. Then they leave the group, wasting 7 other people's time. How is this fair?

If they're on an alt, they can /tell the leader and explain to them.

http://i.imgur.com/mbagwkO.jpg

Yes, I actually screenshot this, because it's been happening constantly since I started this thread. Join, get clear, leave.

Personally, I support this idea.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Personally, I support this idea.

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Personally I agree :D

And WinterLuna, just ignore/block Demogulus. Clearly has no intention of being a productive part of conversation and is just here to troll - so don't let 'em get to you. He's probably still just butthurt that you articulately ripped his entire post apart and is trying to cover it up as "I'm just trolling" now.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Personally I agree :D

And WinterLuna, just ignore/block Demogulus. Clearly has no intention of being a productive part of conversation and is just here to troll - so don't let 'em get to you. He's probably still just butthurt that you articulately ripped his entire post apart and is trying to cover it up as "I'm just trolling" now.

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Haha, thanks Eidolon, completely ignoring him now and reported his posts ^^

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Originally Posted by Kurogaea

Hmm.... Not so sure about this idea. As useful as it is, it'd lower a new player's confidence most likely resulting in less active/subcribing players looking for those to party with (Friends blah blah irrelevant). FF14 is good at making new players feel welcomed (not sure for veteran players) so to add this mode would deviate from that reputation and maybe draw in a different player base entirely.

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No it doesn't. New plauers can and should use the pf to form their own parties. Party finder it meant to be exclusive. It is for people to set up a party with rules that people should follow.

The party finder system needs more customization because its pretty bare. Unlke past mmo party finder works the opposite players look at party finder and join a party where as past mmo the leaders actively look and recruited. Due to this ppl ninja join and don't communicate outside a hello.

Nothing wrong with more options to for,m the partys they want.

to others
just fyi trolling is infact against the forum ToS. And you can be reported on being off topic, fighting, being problematic in posting.

Also,party finder is meant to be exclusionary, on what the leader expects and wants.