Your thoughts on Astrolgian so far?

I'm not very high level at all but one thing that I thought might make AST more flexible would be having card draw build up "charges" over time as the cool down expires (think like scholar strategem charges from FFXI ) which allow you to draw a card at the cost of a charge. This way you could draw, royal road and redraw at the cost of two charges instantly.

It's so frustrating pulling spear after spear and waiting so long to redraw, and also this would make it feel less like a waste when you aren't drawing between pulls (since you're still accrueing charges)

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Originally Posted by KeyboardCowboy

After reading all the replies in this thread and a few other ones I feel bad for my healer brothers who have wasted time leveling a sub-par healer too 60 and are now trying to defend the new class with justifications of being a "support" job when in fact they are just a sub-par job with a lack of decent healing cool downs and rng buffs that arnt that great and propably won't be up when needed. I truly am sorry for your loss and feel bad for the fate/dungeon grind you have ahead of you while leveling one of the good healing jobs. If you need someone to talk to for support please don't hesitate to send me a /tell in game

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I would outperform you on astro in cleric stance scrub!

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Originally Posted by KeyboardCowboy

After reading all the replies in this thread and a few other ones I feel bad for my healer brothers who have wasted time leveling a sub-par healer too 60 and are now trying to defend the new class with justifications of being a "support" job when in fact they are just a sub-par job with a lack of decent healing cool downs and rng buffs that arnt that great and propably won't be up when needed. I truly am sorry for your loss and feel bad for the fate/dungeon grind you have ahead of you while leveling one of the good healing jobs. If you need someone to talk to for support please don't hesitate to send me a /tell in game

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Wow what rubbish. If the ASt would be SO underwhelming like you colour him here then SE would already have said something to that Topic. So you are just playing the "elitist Scholar/Whitemage" here.

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Originally Posted by Krixus

I would outperform you on astro in cleric stance scrub!

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A perfect example right here folks, the first stage is denial, when you hit acceptance you have a long fate grind ahead of you :)

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Originally Posted by Mhikail

With the way it is set up, it's more of a Support job with healing capabilities lol but the thing is, the support is too RNG and the heals aren't that swell.


WHM: Burst Healer.
SCH: Mitigation Healer.
AST: Support Healer(?)

They need to fix it where the cards play more with us.
We need more interaction with them.

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I'll try to complete your text^^;

WHM: Burst Healer.
SCH: Mitigation-Support Healer.: Sacred Soil, E4E, SS 3%, 20% magic defense, cure potency 20%, etc... :3
AST: Support Healer(?)

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Originally Posted by KeyboardCowboy

A perfect example right here folks, the first stage is denial, when you hit acceptance you have a long fate grind ahead of you :)

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Nah I've been having no issues healing, but most players are bad. I play healer main since launch because its the job that can make the biggest difference in winning or losing. After struggling in so many fights because of bad healers I decided to main it.

So I can only assume it's these same bad healers that are leveling a job that takes even more multitasking than sch, and simply are overwhelmed. But its fine by me, I'm in a good fc as a known strong healer, so I will get my astro gearz.

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Originally Posted by KeyboardCowboy

A perfect example right here folks, the first stage is denial, when you hit acceptance you have a long fate grind ahead of you :)

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This totally degrades you to a Elitist Snob instead of a serious Discussion Partner. Go Troll somewhere else.

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Originally Posted by Krixus

I almost never see selene being used in serious content until it becomes farmable. So pleeeease stfu about Selene's haste, as in the content we are talking about, you would have eos out. It is very obvious this discussion is lacked full of casuals. Also all the people that arnt even 50 yet just stop talking, it means nothing under 50 with you i40 gear.

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So when a party needs Eos to survive, what in the hells does make you think they could survive with AST.
you think AST has better healing than scholar with selene out?

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Originally Posted by Krixus

I almost never see selene being used in serious content until it becomes farmable. So pleeeease stfu about Selene's haste, as in the content we are talking about, you would have eos out. It is very obvious this discussion is lacked full of casuals. Also all the people that arnt even 50 yet just stop talking, it means nothing under 50 with you i40 gear.

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This is not true. I used Selene when I first clear T4, T7, T8, T9(first half), T11, T12(first half), T13(first half).

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Originally Posted by Nague

So when a party needs Eos to survive, what in the hells does make you think they could survive with AST.
you think AST has better healing than scholar with selene out?

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Astro can heal better aoe than sch yes, have you even played the job yet?

Sch has one aoe strong burst then its on CD and you gotta rely on shitty ass succor spam or hope you have a whm helping. Astro has all the same ability's as whm... So yup.

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Originally Posted by KeyboardCowboy

After reading all the replies in this thread and a few other ones I feel bad for my healer brothers who have wasted time leveling a sub-par healer too 60 and are now trying to defend the new class with justifications of being a "support" job when in fact they are just a sub-par job with a lack of decent healing cool downs and rng buffs that arnt that great and propably won't be up when needed. I truly am sorry for your loss and feel bad for the fate/dungeon grind you have ahead of you while leveling one of the good healing jobs. If you need someone to talk to for support please don't hesitate to send me a /tell in game

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It's not a waste of time to play something you enjoy. AST may not be up to the raw healing standards of the other classes as it is, and I agree, its Draw mechanic doesn't always help (some cases are literal wasted draws, where I'd just as soon let the card fall off than cast it), but it's fun for me. When raids are released and AST's abilility (or lack thereof) to deal with heal checks becomes readily apparent, the community is going look to SE for help if the job is truly a lost cause.

Considering that it's the first addition of a new healing class that's trying to break into a very established paradigm of WHM/SCH, it's not surprising that balancing it was probably very challenging. Players are going to spend hours and hours toying with the class, trying to push it to its limits. It will take time to see exactly where AST stands. It's easy to say that AST is bad simply because it has lower potency heals and no way to buff its own healing. It's not as easy to say why AST is good, which means there's a distinct dynamic that some are missing, or it needs some help. SE will have to see this, because it is a flashy class in a popularity contest. If it's not up to snuff, there's going to be a lot of discontent in the ranks. Classes have been adjusted quite fairly through 2.0, and we ended with largely a very balanced pool of jobs. We can only hope for the same level playing field in the time coming, otherwise you really will see AST jumping ship for serious content, which would be a right shame.

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Originally Posted by RoseM

This is not true. I used Selene when I first clear T4, T7, T8, T9(first half), T11, T12(first half), T13(first half).

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But you are probably on ts with a good whm by your side. I'm talking your typical sch.

This thread should be directed at the Tanks and DPS as they are the ones who are directly affected by Astros heals n buffs or lack thereof. Seems like all we have here are main'd healers bitching n moaning. If a Tank proclaims "I have no problem with their heals." and a DPS says "I love the buffs, actually." Will the butthurt end? No? K. Go back to your WHM and Selene then. If you feel the urge still, I think the Tank forums are comparing the DRK to the WAR and Pally. Maybe you can rage there instead.

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Originally Posted by Arcana

I'll try to complete your text^^;

WHM: Burst Healer.
SCH: Mitigation-Support Healer.: Sacred Soil, E4E, SS 3%, 20% magic defense, cure potency 20%, etc... :3
AST: Support Healer(?)

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I have all 3 healers and I have main SCH for 2 years.
AST gives buffs to actually effect your combative skills.

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Originally Posted by kupokage

This thread should be directed at the Tanks and DPS as they are the ones who are directly affected by Astros heals n buffs or lack thereof. Seems like all we have here are main'd healers bitching n moaning. If a Tank proclaims "I have no problem with their heals." and a DPS says "I love the buffs, actually." Will the butthurt end? No? K. Go back to your WHM and Selene then. If you feel the urge still, I think the Tank forums are comparing the DRK to the WAR and Pally. Maybe you can rage there instead.

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Or you know, let people express how they feel. In the end SE will make the final decision to tweak things and I hope they do.
It's a forum, we are allowed to discuss.

I play all three healers and here are my first impressions so far.

To begin with, the proc system "Enhanced Benefic II" needs to be reworked. Its completely useless. It does literally nothing except make Benefic II instant cast, which if you were already casting or just cast any spell to begin with (AKA 90% of the situations in any content) you're already working around the gcd which lines up pretty well with cast times like these. So making it instant cast while we stand around for the GCD is completely useless OTHER than the initial cast. Which doesn't usually happen with how little AST potencies are, chances are you're spamming spells just to keep everyone alive, so you're working around a GCD 24/7 regardless if its instant cast or not, because you're still waiting, whether its for the cast time of benefic II or the gcd. Comon square, you should know your own games systems -_-.

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Originally Posted by kupokage

This thread should be directed at the Tanks and DPS as they are the ones who are directly affected by Astros heals n buffs or lack thereof. Seems like all we have here are main'd healers bitching n moaning. If a Tank proclaims "I have no problem with their heals." and a DPS says "I love the buffs, actually." Will the butthurt end? No? K. Go back to your WHM and Selene then. If you feel the urge still, I think the Tank forums are comparing the DRK to the WAR and Pally. Maybe you can rage there instead.

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DRk 58 Tank here. I had many moments of "oh shit" with WHM and some Wipes with him too. Lesser on the SCH. But not a single wipe or death since Heavensward Release with AST. And im not a a "Pro"-Tank.

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Originally Posted by Krixus

But you are probably on ts with a good whm by your side. I'm talking your typical sch.

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Yes. But what are u trying to prove? War clears fight with a good pld, DPS clears fight with other good dps.. When you are doing cutting-edge contents everyone in your party should be "good", including yourself.

All of our skills from 50-60 except Time Dilation and maybe Synastry are gimmicks. None of them help AST with their job (Which should be healing) whatsoever. Time Dilation is pretty good, I wish the cool down on that was lower, but like all AST abilities there's something REALLY stupid about it. In this case its that it cannot be used on YOURSELF to buff your own buffs. I guess this makes sense from a coding standpoint because this ability affects any of your buffs on anyone so technically since you can buff yourself with some cooldowns you could extend them by targeting yourself. If that wasnt bad enough it reduced your magical potency by 25! Lol. Essentailly you are gimping yourself when you turn this on, with our already low healing potencies. Thats Lightspeed in a nutshell, gimping yourself. So essentially we can't time Dilate our self, and we probably dont want to Lightspeed ourself.

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Originally Posted by Hypie

DRk 58 Tank here. I had many moments of "oh shit" with WHM and some Wipes with him too. Lesser on the SCH. But not a single wipe or death since Heavensward Release with AST. And im not a a "Pro"-Tank.

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Then you had a bad WHM, WHM has much higher healing capabilities than the AST does.


A Good AST is better than a poor WHM.

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Originally Posted by Krixus

Astro can heal better aoe than sch yes, have you even played the job yet?

Sch has one aoe strong burst then its on CD and you gotta rely on shitty ass succor spam or hope you have a whm helping. Astro has all the same ability's as whm... So yup.

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AST doesn't have Divine Seal or Presence of Mind. It's AoE heals are good, don't get me wrong, but WHM has a way to make theirs even better, without consuming MP. However, I too have seen a lot of Eos use in progression content, it makes for more forgiving recovery, and I think the HoT power between them and AST would work well together. If the group isn't constantly failing to DPS checks and doesn't need help pushing a phase, there's no reason to jeopardize failing heal checks while learning content for buffs where AST can buff. Then, once the party becomes familiar with the battle, people gradually start to overgear it, and Selene becomes more readily viable, resulting in a buffing storm from both AST and SCH.

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Originally Posted by kupokage

This thread should be directed at the Tanks and DPS as they are the ones who are directly affected by Astros heals n buffs or lack thereof. -snip-

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People have been asking for support classes. I wonder if AST is SE's way of doing that? We don't have a slot labeled "support" so ostensibly it has to be a healer, just with nice buffs and such. And its buffs seem like exactly the sort of thing that you would find on a dedicated 'support' role in older games.

In line with Acana's post... if people want raw healing output, they should play WHM. If they want tons of mitigation tools and options, SCH's the way to go. AST... needs more time to be fully figured out, I think, but it has a place. Yes, the healers have been made more similar, but they're still not the same.

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Originally Posted by Kiaris

Then you had a bad WHM, WHM has much higher healing capabilities than the AST does.


A Good AST is better than a poor WHM.

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I'll add that WHM has a lead time in almost all of its healing. If someone takes an unexpected big hit (or eats optional damage, as happens so often in the new dungeons), they don't have lustrate nor dignity, and benediction is on a 5 minute CD. Tetra helps but only once they hit level 60.

All that said, Good healer of any class > poor healer.

Scholar lose their fey glow/light BTW, replaced by Fey Caress(area Esuna) and Fey Wind(3% attack speed increase, much lower than AST's arrow, but area)

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

People have been asking for support classes. I wonder if AST is SE's way of doing that? We don't have a slot labeled "support" so ostensibly it has to be a healer, just with nice buffs and such. And its buffs seem like exactly the sort of thing that you would find on a dedicated 'support' role in older games.

In line with Acana's post... if people want raw healing output, they should play WHM. If they want tons of mitigation tools and options, SCH's the way to go. AST... needs more time to be fully figured out, I think, but it has a place. Yes, the healers have been made more similar, but they're still not the same.

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It is.
People are being blinded to death by saying "THERE IS NO SUPPORT JOB"
just because Yoshi didn't spell it out for us doesn't mean it isn't.
BRD is a SUPPORT/DPS but people swear up and down it's not. It's annoying lol.
Maybe we need more time to see how AST is but I feel like we're missing something lol.

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Originally Posted by Mhikail

It is.
People are being blinded to death by saying "THERE IS NO SUPPORT JOB"
just because Yoshi didn't spell it out for us doesn't mean it isn't.
BRD is a SUPPORT/DPS but people swear up and down it's not. It's annoying lol.
Maybe we need more time to see how AST is but I feel like we're missing something lol.

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DRK is also getting a lot of crap right now but I've seen some potential for it to shine at 60. So yes. Really I think we just need more time to see how things play out and settle. Let the data flow in. Etc.

The only job I'm really concerned for is MCH. Even in the best cases their level 60 parses have been damning and I haven't seen anything to indicate hope so far. But even for them, there could be a key element missing in their not-rotation or something that could change that. Time will tell.

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Originally Posted by Seryl199

AST doesn't have Divine Seal or Presence of Mind. It's AoE heals are good, don't get me wrong, but WHM has a way to make theirs even better, without consuming MP. However, I too have seen a lot of Eos use in progression content, it makes for more forgiving recovery, and I think the HoT power between them and AST would work well together. If the group isn't constantly failing to DPS checks and doesn't need help pushing a phase, there's no reason to jeopardize failing heal checks while learning content for buffs where AST can buff. Then, once the party becomes familiar with the battle, people gradually start to overgear it, and Selene becomes more readily viable, resulting in a buffing storm from both AST and SCH.

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Right there.. With your own words.. of why AST isn't a progression healer..

SCH and WHM can both outheal AST. And the buffs AST give aren't enough to give up healing. As SCH could use their pet.

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Originally Posted by AmiraHargal

Scholar lose their fey glow/light BTW, replaced by Fey Caress(area Esuna) and Fey Wind(3% attack speed increase, much lower than AST's arrow, but area)

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we didnt lose it, its now in 1 skill and we got a bonus AE dispell

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Originally Posted by Kiaris

Right there.. With your own words.. of why AST isn't a progression healer..

SCH and WHM can both outheal AST. And the buffs AST give aren't enough to give up healing. As SCH could use their pet.

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We don't know what the heal checks of the next iteration of raids is going to be. I've readily admitted in previous posts that if burst healing is extremely prevalent in Alexander raids, AST is in trouble. I've played some level 50 content next to SCH, and we're able to top groups up without difficulty, I can sneak in DoT's and the SCH still has plenty of room to DPS. Let's wait to see what Alexander is bringing before we call it a wash.

Id also like to point out Medica II has a 20y range. AST only has 15y I noticed as I was used to Medica II hitting a lot farther but my AST AOE Hot wasn't..

Imagine a world without the WHM and SCH and the comparisons stop. The AST heals n buffs aren't so weak all of a sudden. ONLY in comparison to the others does it feel that way. That being said, what do you see wrong with the Astrologian? Whatever your answer is to that question is what SHOULD be discussed. Not this whole thing about "WHM and SCH can do it better. Selene this, Presence of Mind that. Rabble rabble rabble." No one's asking for more burst damage from a SUM because it's fellow DPS, the BLM, puts them to shame in that category. No. So why compare ANY class and use that as basis for tweaks, buffs and/or nerfs. Call out the AST for its lack of potency and fail card system by all means, but do so without dragging the WHM or SCH into the conversation. If you can.

I'm a career healer in game and love what I do. I'm very good in raids, I learn quickly and can play WHM and SCH equally well. I was very excited to level AST during early access. As I grinded my way way to 50 I kept thinking "It will get better.. just keep going." It never got better. At lvl50 I was 130 and bis (augmented ironworks wpn though) and doing hard mode dungeons (nearly impossible to speed run btw). Between DRKs that didn't spec properly and the weak heals of AST, it was a bloodbath. AST needs help. There is no raw healing power there. There is nothing that impresses. All content in this game should be accessible to any job/party make up so long as it falls within the pre-established SE parameters for the content.

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Originally Posted by OpheliaHeartilly

I'm a career healer in game and love what I do. I'm very good in raids, I learn quickly and can play WHM and SCH equally well. I was very excited to level AST during early access. As I grinded my way way to 50 I kept thinking "It will get better.. just keep going." It never got better. At lvl50 I was 130 and bis (augmented ironworks wpn though) and doing hard mode dungeons (nearly impossible to speed run btw). Between DRKs that didn't spec properly and the weak heals of AST, it was a bloodbath. AST needs help. There is no raw healing power there. There is nothing that impresses. All content in this game should be accessible to any job/party make up so long as it falls within the pre-established SE parameters for the content.

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You shoulda been fine in hard modes. AST is almost like healing as a WHM without the healing buff cooldowns at 50.

Creating a healing class with "support" abilities is a great idea-- as long as the raw healing is comparable to the other jobs (it's not) and the support abilities can be used on demand (they can't). This is where the problem is. I find the cards gimmicky. The fact that you can "shuffle" and draw the same card that you just put back because you didn't want it is not cool. Can you imagine if some of your abilities as a DRG, BRD, or MNK could only be used randomly? Or could never be used unless they proc'd? "Oh I can't use blood for blood now because the button isn't there...maybe it will appear a bit later..." "The party is going to need mantra soon for big aoe damage... I hope it procs at the right time!" Benefic II proc for insta cast but with same MP cost? What is the point of that? lol. I feel that SE underpowered AST so it wouldn't outshine WHM or SCH out of the box-- but it really needs some buffing.

You mean AST is like SCH without a pet and without the ability to dignity three times. Also lower healing potencies, and a much crappier shield (if you use that useless sect.).

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Originally Posted by Kiaris

You shoulda been fine in hard modes. AST is almost like healing as a WHM without the healing buff cooldowns at 50.

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Not at all with DRKs that PIE specc'd (is that really a thing??) and pull 8 mobs like they are running on their PLD. Losing hate to the DPS all over the place-- on WHM or SCH I could have kept up. AST just didn't have the juice.

So right now it sounds almost like we're being judged on how terrible the tanks are. I will admit I haven't done end game content, I've been healing Sohm Al recently and for the most part it's been fine. I had a level 60 paladin in tanking it and it was perfect, everyone did what they were supposed to do and it was the smoothest run I've had in a long time. I think that the astrologian will have a place in future content to be a viable end game healer, it's just getting used to this, that and the new things before we hit the same point that WHM and SCH are at.

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Originally Posted by Krixus

I almost never see selene being used in serious content until it becomes farmable. So pleeeease stfu about Selene's haste, as in the content we are talking about, you would have eos out. It is very obvious this discussion is lacked full of casuals. Also all the people that arnt even 50 yet just stop talking, it means nothing under 50 with you i40 gear.

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You'll be using Selene if you have 2 SCHs, actually, and that has happened to me numerous times in raids.

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Originally Posted by Hypie

So basically a lot of ppl are to lazy and not up for the challenge ast provides. I've seen mayn AST's in Heavensward and they where all really good. You should talk about it when you hit 60.

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1. We've been hearing from some people who have it to 60.

2. We can't just say "Wait until 60" because the class needs to be a solid healer before 60 as well.

The problem is that AST's buffs aren't worth it's lack of healing potency. Being able to have one extra tank cooldown 17% of the time isn't worth it, especially when you have healing classes that have reliable cooldowns they can use WAY more than 17% of the time (eye for an eye, for example).

The card buffs need to be stronger and better overall. MP/TP REGEN would be decent, but MP/TP usage reduction hinges on an AST knowing that the buff target is A) going to be using a lot of TP or MP shortly and B) isn't a competent enough player to manage their own TP/MP in the first place, and if B is true, why are they there to start with?

Wow a career healer struggling in easy content with BiS, thanks for the good laugh. I could heal HM speed runs as a blm.... Go practice.

I am certainly not against buffs for astro, but I've yet to feel the need for them. Currently 56, looking forward to the vault, as people are saying its the true astro test I guess. Though if those saying this is hard, are already 60 astro, I find it hard to believe they already hit 60 on sch or whm. So they probably haven't healed it as one of those jobs, maybe it is just a difficult fight for any healer? What are you comparing to?

I just feel like i want to point out, its not that we struggle or cant heal, or wipe in content as the guy above me keeps pointing out. It's the fact, that SCH and WHM are safer and better bet, and in progression, people want reliable healers and reliable buffs. I dont wanna hurt my statics progression if i know, we could get further faster with me playing sch and not astro.

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Originally Posted by Krixus

Wow a career healer struggling in easy content with BiS, thanks for the good laugh. I could heal HM speed runs as a blm.... Go practice.

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Who are you referring to?

I'm assuming it's not me because I never said anything along the lines of being a "career healer", nor did I say anything about healing easy content in BiS gear.

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I am certainly not against buffs for astro, but I've yet to feel the need for them. Currently 56, looking forward to the vault, as people are saying its the true astro test I guess. Though if those saying this is hard, are already 60 astro, I find it hard to believe they already hit 60 on sch or whm. So they probably haven't healed it as one of those jobs, maybe it is just a difficult fight for any healer? What are you comparing to?

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I'm not saying anything subjective. Only that OBJECTIVELY speaking, raid leaders aren't going to want to bring ASTs in their current state because their heals are weaker and the card buffs don't bring enough to compensate.

And I LOVE the AST playstyle. It's got some neat tools, but at the end of the day, it's a crappier WHM with unreliable buffs that wouldn't shift the tide of a battle anyway.

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Originally Posted by Krixus

Wow a career healer struggling in easy content with BiS, thanks for the good laugh. I could heal HM speed runs as a blm.... Go practice.

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The struggle is real, and it has nothing to do with me or any other healer being a bad player. Your rudeness and baseless supposition seemingly indicates a desire to flame rather then draw attention to the facts: Speed run = big pulls. AST has lower potency heals. You often need to heal fast and big especially if you are toggling cleric stance and helping to dps mobs. The tools that AST has to work with do not as easily permit that. Those are facts. Please link a video of you healing an HM speed run on your BLM for reference please. This sounds very interesting. Also, telling ppl to "stfu" has no place on the public forums.

Edit-- Just looked up your info on the Lodestone. You don't even have BLM levelled up. lol