Pay for your inventory.

Bank space is charged for in f2p mmos all the time this really isn't something new for mmos. SE wants to make more money with retainers, they even said they wanted to charge for them way back in 1.0 so it probably is fine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rath

I was a 4 star crafter about 3 days after they came out. I just don't stuff my retainers full of crap materials (that I can buy anytime on the MB). You don't stuff your home full of all your baby clothes, baby food, last years dirty socks, etc., or you get called a hoarder. Just because you do it in-game, doesn't mean it isn't hoarding.

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What you call Hoarding is actually called Collecting and Completing, 2 fundamental parts of every and each RPG or MMORPG. If the game fails to give proper room for this activities without charging for them, is nothing more than just P2W. Not to mention, retainers are more than just inventory, as such 4 star crafter you are, you should understand how abusable would be to have up to 8 retainers to farm shards and to play markets. That would be absolutely insane P2W, right away.

More considering how buying raid runs and such are such a common activity, this is called P2W here and in china, it would be ok if this was a F2P game, but it isn`t.

And of course you are.
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/1492154/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Bank space is charged for in f2p mmos all the time this really isn't something new for mmos. SE wants to make more money with retainers, they even said they wanted to charge for them way back in 1.0 so it probably is fine.

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FF14 is an F2P now o.O

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

What you call Hoarding is actually called Collecting and Completing, 2 fundamental parts of every and each RPG or MMORPG. If the game fails to give proper room for this activities without charging for them, is nothing more than just P2W. Not to mention, retainers are more than just inventory, as such 4 star crafter you are, you should understand how abusable would be to have up to 8 retainers to farm shards and to play markets. That would be absolutely insane P2W, right away.

More considering how buying raid runs and such are such a common activity, this is called P2W here and in china, it would be ok if this was a F2P game, but it isn`t.



And of course you are.
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...890.1433120936

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You realize that people have multiple characters and can choose which to show on lodestone so people like you can look them up and not stalk them right? right?
See, now all your see is an alt created during beta when I could not log into the NA servers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rath

You realize that people have multiple characters and can choose which to show on lodestone so people like you can look them up and not stalk them right? right?

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And you realize that post is not about you right...?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

And you realize that post is not about you right...?

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O.o You realize that it's the same person, yeah?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

And you realize that post is not about you right...?

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Actually it is, you quoted him :P He just changed his character. Same forum user.

seeing how they're trying to move crafting jobs towards more specialized roles instead of omincrafting, i can't really be angry at this. The only reason my current 2 retainers are full is because i stockpile crap for other crafting jobs, most of which i dont even use.

Well my two retainers are basically empty and my normal inventory is basically empty as well. At least they provided an option for people.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Actually it is, you quoted him :P He just changed his character. Same forum user.

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I know who he is, and i still repeat it, that post is not about him. If both of you don`t get it.... xD

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

I know who he is, and i still repeat it, that post is not about him. If both of you don`t get it.... xD

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I don't understand, you said he wasn't a 4star crafter and linked his lodestone? I don't think you know what you are saying lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

I know who he is, and i still repeat it, that post is not about him. If both of you don`t get it.... xD

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How is linking a lodestone profile of him, with the words "And of course you are.", not about him? Are you thinking about what you are typing?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

What you call Hoarding is actually called Collecting and Completing, 2 fundamental parts of every and each RPG or MMORPG. If the game fails to give proper room for this activities without charging for them, is nothing more than just P2W. Not to mention, retainers are more than just inventory, as such 4 star crafter you are, you should understand how abusable would be to have up to 8 retainers to farm shards and to play markets. That would be absolutely insane P2W, right away.

More considering how buying raid runs and such are such a common activity, this is called P2W here and in china, it would be ok if this was a F2P game, but it isn`t.

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Main body of the post, or, what the post says and is about.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

And of course you are.
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/1492154/

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A little insignificant extra that many people, with a serious reading issues would think is the post about.

Is it possible for us to stay on topic? Some of us really care about this issue and would prefer if things would be a bit more civil. Thank you

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Main body of the post, or, what the post says and is about.
A little insignificant extra that many people, with a serious reading issues would think is the post about.

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Perhaps you should avoid posting "insignificant" material that you know will be misconstrued by many people.
What possible motive could you have for posting such material?

For me it's pretty clear , more space for "free" (not paying more than we already pay monthly) is good for everyone or at least will not be a problem for no one. If the space is enough for you , let the people who thinks is not enough complain if the devs listen and add it to everyone I think it is a good thing. Why someone would argue against it?

Bumping. This is important to me, please take your paying customers wishes into account SE.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Darkshade

Bumping. This is important to me, please take your paying customers wishes into account SE.

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But which customers' wishes? If its more free storage than count me in, I haven't maxed out the retainers I have, but more storage doesn't hurt. But if is just harping on SE for charging for extra retainers, I see no problem with SE doing it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Darkshade

Bumping. This is important to me, please take your paying customers wishes into account SE.

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Sure, take them into account, and ignore them when appropriate.

Too many games have been ruined by short-sighted "paying customers" who just want what they want and don't understand or respect the reasons why their wishes are a bad idea. Want a win button, anyone? Or direct purchase of gil from SE with $$$? Yeah, some paying customers wish for those things.

Stick to your vision, Yoshida-san, your track record speaks louder than all the choruses of "gimmee gimmee gimmee" on the internet. I have faith in you because I beleive you love this game at least as much as any of us do; it's your masterpiece, after all. I look forward to wherever you choose to take us.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Not everyone wants to sell mass quantities of cheap items. There's plenty of fun and profit in expensice stuff.

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Trust me I know how to work the market board. I didn't get a medium house selling 1 item at a time! The expansion is 1 day away. Just think about all the $$$$$$ you can make the first 90 days. I am not going to put up 1 item at a time and hope it sells.

P.S. If you don't see a problem going from $13~$15 and month to adding 2 retainers for $4 a month to adding 4 more retainers for another $8 a month. Then good luck to you because trust me they are not going to stop at $25~$27 a month. The are going to find a way to charge you for more and who knows how much you are going to be paying then!

FYI: I know its a option but as a full time crafter you need those extra spaces and they know it or they wouldn't have offered it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

[B]Stick to your vision, Yoshida-san,

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Nice vision a sub mmorpg with f2p micro transactions to nickel and dime the players to death.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blissa

FYI: I know its a option but as a full time crafter you need those extra spaces and they know it or they wouldn't have offered it.

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Stop hoarding junk mats.

My retainers are packed too, but if push came to shove, I could easily get rid of most of it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Stop hoarding junk mats.

My retainers are packed too, but if push came to shove, I could easily get rid of most of it.

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Same here. A lot of it is just stuff I'm holding onto in case the price goes higher after Heavensward.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blissa

Nice vision a sub mmorpg with f2p micro transactions to nickel and dime the players to death.

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This 100%.

Well, if you truly unsubbed, when you havent logged in for 14 days, you wont be able to post on the forums anymore.

My sub never ran out but i didn't log in for a month due to real life and got logged out of the forums.

I don't really care about the retainers. I just emptied one of my two in preperation for new stuff. I had 4 at one point, but decided I didnt need to hoard everything anymore. Just waiting to turn in a bunch of gear for GC seals and my other retainer will be fairly emptied.

Just keep the important, hard to get mats, and get rid of the easy stuff.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blissa

Trust me I know how to work the market board. I didn't get a medium house selling 1 item at a time! The expansion is 1 day away. Just think about all the $$$$$$ you can make the first 90 days. I am not going to put up 1 item at a time and hope it sells.

P.S. If you don't see a problem going from $13~$15 and month to adding 2 retainers for $4 a month to adding 4 more retainers for another $8 a month. Then good luck to you because trust me they are not going to stop at $25~$27 a month. The are going to find a way to charge you for more and who knows how much you are going to be paying then!

FYI: I know its a option but as a full time crafter you need those extra spaces and they know it or they wouldn't have offered it.

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Exactly, and people were saying this when minions came out. "oh it's ok it's just cosmetic don't worry" blah blah you don't have to buy it blah blah, and i personally still think it's wrong that the main characters are paid cosmetic features but that's not the point. The point is if you don't speak up now, things like this will keep happening, just wait!.

Next feature!. We have been listening to feedback about armory space, and boy do we have something special for you!. Extra armory space for the low low price of 3 extra $ per month.

I'm honestly curious... people who have more than 2 retainers, what are you even storing on them? I ask because I have multiple gear sets (every single available set for DRG minus a few pieces here and there plus a bunch of sets for other jobs), multiple weapons (Primal & Coil), dyes (all of the retainer venture ones), glamour gear, rare/expensive crafting mats, and various and sundry other things on mine and I still have plenty of space left.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Honey_Tailtwitcher

I think $30.00 a month or anything approaching that, is insane. There's no reason a game should rival my internet bill in cost.

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I want 30$ a month internet /cry.. mine is $105/month.

Crap...didn't know I was forced to pay for extra retainers. Did not see this gun pointed at me to buy it. Woah...SE took me by surprise there.

Ok, so I held off saying this for a while but enough is enough and I encourage everyone to complain and put their foot down on this type of thing.

First they sold fantasia in the Mog Store which was borderline ok. Other games that charge a subscription have you pay for realm transfers and re-doing your character. Personally, though I felt this should be something you could buy in game instead.

Then SE started selling stuff in the Mog Station from old seasonal events you used to be able to buy with gill when they came around again. Here they removed the option of being able to buy things with in game currency to get items. This is where it started to go too far and really going in the wrong direction. Adding additional retainers for a cost was another bad move and a big one. People who are paying subs for the game SHOULDN'T have to pay extra real money for inventory space or to get any items in the game cosmetic or otherwise.

And now instead of solving the inventory/glamor problem they are adding an option to buy more retainers. A service that should be part of the game already covered by the subscription fee. I'm buying an expansion and should get more inventory space as part of that purchase not "hey thanks for buying our game you have now unlocked the ability to spend more money and buy storage."

I love this game but this is getting ridiculous and SE too greedy. Be happy with being one of the only games besides WoW that can retain subscriptions and don't bite the hand that feeds you by playing these stupid games.

I for one don't want this game's cash shop to grow any bigger and would actually like to see a reduction. This isn't a free to play game it is subscription. It also isn't WoW and I hope it never degrades to the point where WoW is right now with its cash shop. Paying for Fantasia and the upgrades to the eternal bonding ceremony makes sense. Paying for more character slots is grudgingly ok and has precedence with FFXI. Charging for inventory space and to buy in game items that should be rewards for playing or basic features is NOT ok.

I really hope the producers listen to their player base on this one. The whole thing just gives me a bad taste in my mouth. Also, I've never heard any other game talk about having so much problems with data storage before. I don't understand why this is such a big problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Owatatsumi

I really hope the producers listen to their player base on this one. The whole thing just gives me a bad taste in my mouth. Also, I've never heard any other game talk about having so much problems with data storage before. I don't understand why this is such a big problem.

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You give them an inch, they take a mile.
This is what happens when you kept asking for crap in Mog Station because
OF COURSE they'll put it in Mog Station...Now some people here are seeing the wrong in it
and having second thoughts. Far too late now friends.
Sometimes you have no choice but to hold the MOG flag because otherwise they don't listen.

Edit: I mean you in general, not you yourself Owatatsumi.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hyouretsuzan

Crap...didn't know I was forced to pay for extra retainers. Did not see this gun pointed at me to buy it. Woah...SE took me by surprise there.

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There is no gun but the fact remains that SE is charging money for a basic feature that should be included in the game and covered by the sub we already shell out each month. In addition to this with an expansion, and the increase in items that come with it, it is customary for games to give players increased storage as part of the purchase. Are they forcing us? No but they aren't delivering on what has come to be expected and the norm for MMO expansions and aren't treating their customers very well by doing so. Just because they aren't "forcing" you to do something, doesn't mean they aren't manipulating the situation to make it more likely you pick a certain result. Storage in a game, especially like an MMO is a big quality of life thing and is important to a lot of people.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mhikail

You give them an inch, they take a mile.
This is what happens when you kept asking for crap in Mog Station because
OF COURSE they'll put it in Mog Station...Now some people here are seeing the wrong in it
and having second thoughts. Far too late now friends.
Sometimes you have no choice but to hold the MOG flag because otherwise they don't listen.

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I agree, which is why I cringed when people kept asking for Fantasia in there. Nothing should be in the Mog Station besides your subscription and maybe extra eternal bond packages. I've been against it since the start and can't agree more though I'd like to be optimistic against all hope if enough people complain they'll do away with some of it and stop this slippery slope. Unfortunately I was quite busy in my life outside of the game when they first started the shenanigans so I wasn't able to address it and voice my opinion at the start.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Owatatsumi

for a basic feature that should be included in the game and covered by the sub we already shell out each month.

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Whats this? Are my 2 retainers supplied by SE as part of the game figments of my imagination? O.O

Storage will always be an issue for those that choose to horde. Even if SE gave us an extra free retainer, or even 10, it will only be a matter of time till certain players max out that space as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Owatatsumi

snip

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Oh, I'm sure what you said is valid. I just can't seem to care enough. For starters, people will not have the same state as mind as you. You want SE to stop charging for additional services? Simple solution would be to show it to them. Say it on the forums, or just not make any purchases. But just like how there are people like you who share similar opinions, there are those that simply relish in the fact to pay extra money for optional items. From what I gathered from this thread is that people are dissatisfied that they HAVE to pay extra for storage space. Soo....even though you don't like it, you're still gonna buy the service? That will tell SE. My stance in optional pay stuff is neutral. If it gets too absurd, I will bounce ship. For now? I'll see how this will go. But keep in mind that there are people that will always buy items. Think SE wants to lose that extra cash flow?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LunaHoshino

I'm honestly curious... people who have more than 2 retainers, what are you even storing on them? I ask because I have multiple gear sets (every single available set for DRG minus a few pieces here and there plus a bunch of sets for other jobs), multiple weapons (Primal & Coil), dyes (all of the retainer venture ones), glamour gear, rare/expensive crafting mats, and various and sundry other things on mine and I still have plenty of space left.

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Then you don't have as much as you think? I have one retainer entirely filled with weapons and gear for potential glamours, and one entirely filled with mats. It's not exactly difficult.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FriendlyUncle

SE designed these systems, specifically glamour which didnt need to use inventory, to consume inventory spaces and with each update and expansion the available maximum inventory remains the same while the number of usable items increases in addition to glamour armor which according Live Letters the developers and Yoshi P are totally into and behind. So much that they design items SPECIFICALLY for glamour then yes, they need to take this issue seriously.

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This. Seriously, it's just the same as Miqo'te and now Au Ra with their tails, like, "well we have these races available for you but we don't really care about accomodating their body features, so have your tails clipping through 95% of all the clothes/armour!"... (yeah, different scale, different problem, but the core is the same)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Sure, take them into account, and ignore them when appropriate.

Too many games have been ruined by short-sighted "paying customers" who just want what they want and don't understand or respect the reasons why their wishes are a bad idea. Want a win button, anyone? Or direct purchase of gil from SE with $$$? Yeah, some paying customers wish for those things.

Stick to your vision, Yoshida-san, your track record speaks louder than all the choruses of "gimmee gimmee gimmee" on the internet. I have faith in you because I beleive you love this game at least as much as any of us do; it's your masterpiece, after all. I look forward to wherever you choose to take us.

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...hoooooooly Menphina, do you actually hear what you're saying?? (Well, see what you type?) White knight in the shiniest of armours, if I've ever seen one.

And how many - not even games, but entire franchises have been ruined by short-sighted "money money money" corporate suits who just wanted to see their profits climb? Want a win button or direct purchase of gil from SE with $$$? Yeah, the road we are on now leads to those things. Because some people, people like you, will defend everything SE does and don't mind being double-dipped and spending money on things they should not be spending money on.

For the record, I do love Yoshi and I have such huge respect for him. He did do amazing things to this game, even after and beyond "simply" turning it around from the mess of 1.0. I also love him as a person, I love how he's this #1 man of such a huge game, yet is completely chill and dresses like some half-blood j-rocker. But certain company decisions he went ahead with (or had to go ahead with) just made me not want to believe what he says anymore, and be apprehensive about everything he announces. The way housing was handled - see my signature, and see how it turned out - first break of trust. Then the Eternal Bonding thing, most of the coolest stuff gated behind a paywall - second break of trust. And now this - being told time and time again how problematic increasing inventories is, and then this sort of reveal of how they really have no issues with it actually - third break of trust. For someone who's admittedly so aware of the trust lost with 1.x and wanting to re-build it so badly, these are some very ... interesting steps he's taken. And I'm not at all convinced they fit into that vision. Sure I still want to believe, and I do still stick around, because I do believe, but I'm just more and more scared of this path we've been walking with this game for a while. It was mentioned somewhere, I think, that they're "testing the waters" of how far they can go with extra charges (ie. cash shop and its equivalents) - if we never voice our dislike, if we just passively accept everything they charge us extra for, they'll never stop "testing the waters", they'll just continue to throw us in deeper and deeper (cess)pools.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Storage will always be an issue for those that choose to horde.

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Funny, wasn't a problem for me in XI, or WoW, or GW2, or any other game I invested a decent chunk of time into. I was always able to keep what I gathered and save for what I use in crafting. They gave us the ability to use all crafts/gathers/jobs in this game; it is not unfair to ask for the storage space to match.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by seida

Then you don't have as much as you think? I have one retainer entirely filled with weapons and gear for potential glamours, and one entirely filled with mats. It's not exactly difficult.

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But why do you need an entire retainer for mats? The only mats I keep around are the rare/expensive ones that aren't easily obtained. Otherwise, I just buy what I need off the MB, craft whatever it is I wanted to craft, and then resell the rest. I don't keep mats precisely because they're a huge waste of inventory space when I can just go buy what I need when I need it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BreathlessTao

This. Seriously, it's just the same as Miqo'te and now Au Ra with their tails, like, "well we have these races available for you but we don't really care about accomodating their body features, so have your tails clipping through 95% of all the clothes/armour!"... (yeah, different scale, different problem, but the core is the same)




...hoooooooly Menphina, do you actually hear what you're saying?? (Well, see what you type?) White knight in the shiniest of armours, if I've ever seen one.

And how many - not even games, but entire franchises have been ruined by short-sighted "money money money" corporate suits who just wanted to see their profits climb? Want a win button or direct purchase of gil from SE with $$$? Yeah, the road we are on now, leads to those things. Because some people, people like you, will defend everything SE does and don't mind being double-dipped and spending money on things they should not be spending money on.

For the record, I do love Yoshi and I have such huge respect for him. He did do amazing things to this game, even after and beyond "simply" turning it around from the mess of 1.0. I also love him as a person, I love how he's this #1 man of such a huge game, yet is completely chill and dresses like some half-blood j-rocker. But certain company decisions he went ahead with (or had to go ahead with) just made me not want to believe what he says anymore, and be apprehensive about everything he announces. The way housing was handled - see my signature, and see how it turned out - first break of trust. Then the Eternal Bonding thing, most of the coolest stuff behind gated behind a paywall - second break of trust. And now this - being told time and time again how problematic increasing inventories is, and then this sort of reveal of how they really have no issues with it actually - third break of trust. For someone who's admittedly so aware of the trust lost with 1.x and wanting to re-build it so badly, these are some very ... interesting steps he's taken. And I'm not at all convinced they fit into that vision. Sure I still want to believe, and I do still stick around, because I do believe, but I'm just more and more scared of this path we've been walking with this game for a while. It was mentioned somewhere, I think, that they're "testing the waters" of how far they can go with extra charges (ie. cash shop and its equivalents) - if we never voice our dislike, if we just passively accept everything they charge us extra for, they'll never stop "testing the waters", they'll just continue to throw us in deeper and deeper (cess)pools.

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The things this man/woman say are important. Listen to this guy.