What era of design was your favorite?

Class design? Stormblood
Story? Shadowbringers

Stormblood was great. I loved all raids in Stormblood and Summoner was still great to play. It is only expansion I keep my sub from beginning to end and I have played this game now nearly 12 years.

If damage stance had locked you out of healing spells and had any real impact, I would agree with you, but guess what.. the only downside was you were healing 20% less. Much wow..

As for spells, you had pretty much the entire kit we have today, minus benediction (I think), lilies, and tetra? Oh no.. more healing spells to give you something extra to do... and feel like a healer since you only have 2 dmg spells anyway.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

incorrect.

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki...l_Fantasy_XIV) (might wanna link that better next time)

cleric stance has a 5s recast, and it's not like you had to constantly switch between stances to even feel it. You had phases with bosses pretty much like you have today. Damage phase, Heal phase. NOTHING special. The fact that you had the 5s attached to it was absolutely irrelevant. It wasn't like you were spamming it back and forth. Cleric's stance wasn't transpose.. the f you talking about?

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It basically was, though. Things could go downhill fast because boss auto-attacks could just randomly crit and deal a ridiculous amount of damage. It made runs more predictable and things actually could go downhill fast in those 5 seconds if you weren't careful. It required fight planning with some contingency in mind.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

dropping dex/strenght was simply shit, why did bosses even had dex or str base to begin with?

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It, uh, still works like this. Bosses still have stats. You don't think that they genuinely removed stats from every boss in 6.0, do you?

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

as for rouse " Increases healing magic potency and damage dealt by pet by 40%." Where in the world does it imply it's SMN's damage spells? hahah

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My guy meant the summon pets damage skills, in case it wasn't obvious enough.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

so anyway.. let me sum it. You are arguing for the sake of arguing about an era you didn't even fully understand how it worked, only lament and tilt yourself with the good ol' days.

Okay, you want a cookie?

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Kohashi, with all due respect, it's okay to disagree and prefer modern era, but to say he's arguing about it because he "doesn't understand it" isn't it. You're also arguing from a place of clearly disliking pet jobs, but you know what we said back in the day? If you don't like the pet jobs, there's other jobs to play.

This is fine. You're fine. You prefer streamlined games that tell you what to do and require the least button presses. And that's okay.

But that wasn't the FFXIV these guys enjoyed. A more complicated XIV. No, it wasn't *that* much harder to resolve everything. I personally won't argue that. It was, however, harder to resolve everything in the most efficient way possible. The jobs had weird shit to them that you had to play around, and it gave simpler jobs a reason to exist as well for those that, you know, didn't enjoy that. And, yeah, that did mean that some buttons go completely unused, but then you also act like there's not a bunch of skills in the game right now that have virtually no use in any scenario whatsoever. Leg Graze? Foot Graze? Sleep and Repose? All extremely situational skills the average player won't ever use. But I haven't seen you complain that these are still in the game either.

Having extremely situational skills is part of an RPG. That's just it. Not every skill needs to be pressed all the time.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

If damage stance had locked you out of healing spells and had any real impact, I would agree with you, but guess what.. the only downside was you were healing 20% less. Much wow..

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It also swapped INT and MND in Heavensward, which is the iteration you're talking about based on the Alexander Savage video. Healer damage was still scaling off the INT stat of which they naturally had none, so using Cleric Stance while DPSing was integral while being in Cleric while healing was basically worthless since you'd be using your non-existent INT stat to heal. Cleric Stance changing was a hot topic at the time too. This is why people are saying you don't understand what you're talking about.


On the thread's actual topic, I enjoyed Stormblood the most, being subbed beginning to end. I started in Heavensward, so I only experienced some of it, only being able to see its endgame for about a week before things changed. My FC at the time did take me through a lot of their favorite fights in the week leading up to Stormblood, and regaled me with tales of the old days no sooner than the first day after Stormblood launched, but Stormblood is where my favorite iteration of Bard lived, my favorite raid series and alliance raid series and some of my favorite trials in the entire game.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

If damage stance had locked you out of healing spells and had any real impact, I would agree with you, but guess what.. the only downside was you were healing 20% less. Much wow..

As for spells, you had pretty much the entire kit we have today, minus benediction (I think), lilies, and tetra? Oh no.. more healing spells to give you something extra to do... and feel like a healer since you only have 2 dmg spells anyway.

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It flipped your mind and intelligence so in practice it was a 95%+ reduction (to healing when cleric stance was on and to damage when it was off)

See this is what I’m saying, you genuinely have no idea how any of these skills work so you are extrapolating off a flawed base

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

incorrect.

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki...al_Fantasy_XIV)

cleric stance has a 5s recast, and it's not like you had to constantly switch between stances to even feel it. You had phases with bosses pretty much like you have today. Damage phase, Heal phase. NOTHING special. The fact that you had the 5s attached to it was absolutely irrelevant. It wasn't like you were spamming it back and forth. Cleric's stance wasn't transpose.. the f you talking about?

dropping dex/strenght was simply shit, why did bosses even had dex or str base to begin with?

as for rouse " Increases healing magic potency and damage dealt by pet by 40%." Where in the world does it imply it's SMN's damage spells? hahah
https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki...al_Fantasy_XIV)


so anyway.. let me sum it. You are arguing for the sake of arguing about an era you didn't even fully understand how it worked, only lament and tilt yourself with the good ol' days.

Okay, you want a cookie?

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You know, it' clear by these statements you understand nothing about how the game played before and, what's worse, you don't want to understand how it works when people that played it before are explaining it to you. Just reading the tooltips of skills that don't exist in the game anymore won't give you the experience of how it was to manage them in your rotation. It's night and day compared to now, a lot of things today is pretty much on rails, especially SMN.

I can only reach the conclusion that you're just here trying to pass the "I don't see any of the differences you're talking about, there's nothing of that, it's all in your head, stop complaining in the forums!" in roundabout way. I don't like to go about assuming things but, given the amount of explaining we did and you don't understand it, then like I said before, if nothing is different to you, why we stretching this discussion even further? Also this thread is not even for that purpose.

At this point, just live with the fact that you can't understand what was like to play in ARR/Heavensward. A lot of us do and we are complaining about this decline in variety and complexity of job and encounter design we see and not agree with, as we have the right to do so in a constantly changing game that can be influenced by player feedback. You can disagree with us but not try invalidate our feedback.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

It flipped your mind and intelligence so in practice it was a 95%+ reduction (to healing when cleric stance was on and to damage when it was off)

See this is what I’m saying, you genuinely have no idea how any of these skills work so you are extrapolating off a flawed base

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ermm? excuse you? what 90% reduction? If our current stats were the thing back then.. yes.. but... yeah no..
https://imgur.com/Cax7rJt

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Originally Posted by Dahlinea

You know, it' clear by these statements you understand nothing about how the game played before and, what's worse, you don't want to understand how it works when people that played it before are explaining it to you. Just reading the tooltips of skills that don't exist in the game anymore won't give you the experience of how it was to manage them in your rotation. It's night and day compared to now, a lot of things today is pretty much on rails, especially SMN.

I can only reach the conclusion that you're just here trying to pass the "I don't see any of the differences you're talking about, there's nothing of that, it's all in your head, stop complaining in the forums!" in roundabout way. I don't like to go about assuming things but, given the amount of explaining we did and you don't understand it, then like I said before, if nothing is different to you, why we stretching this discussion even further? Also this thread is not even for that purpose.

At this point, just live with the fact that you can't understand what was like to play in ARR/Heavensward. A lot of us do and we are complaining about this decline in variety and complexity of job and encounter design we see and not agree with, as we have the right to do so in a constantly changing game that can be influenced by player feedback. You can disagree with us but not try invalidate our feedback.

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My dude. I don't give a F about how people perceived something back then. memory and how people remember things is highly inaccurate, and susceptible to bias. I read unbiased, and I have something to compare it to. What you probably miss is a feeling or experience which dates from back then not the actual class design and how horribad was.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

My dude. I don't give a F about how people perceived something back then. memory and how people remember things is highly inaccurate, and susceptible to bias. I read unbiased, and I have something to compare it to. What you probably miss is a feeling or experience which dates from back then not the actual class design and how horribad was.

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Well considering you read cleric stance so wrong that you completely missed why it was such a contentious skill I don’t think being “unbiased” means anything when you apparently don’t understand anything about the skills

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

ermm? excuse you? what 90% reduction? If our current stats were the thing back then.. yes.. but... yeah no..
https://imgur.com/Cax7rJt

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Once again you don’t understand the images you link. Int and mind scaled roughly evenly with each other with levelling gear in ARR (because ARR’s leveling gear isn’t role specific, it’s DOW/DOM), look at the stat distribution on any gear above ilvl 100

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

My dude. I don't give a F about how people perceived something back then. memory and how people remember things is highly inaccurate, and susceptible to bias. I read unbiased, and I have something to compare it to. What you probably miss is a feeling or experience which dates from back then not the actual class design and how horribad was.

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Says the person who's only reading tooltips of skills, guessing the feeling (perception) of how they would work with their bias of current design philosophy and reaching the wrong conclusions.