Please reconsider 7.0 BLM changes

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Originally Posted by SeverianLyonesse

I don't play BLM, but are mains mad that BLM is just getting more fire? A slightly bigger fire blast seems kinda lame after so many other fire upgrades, and an entire dumb gauge devoted to fire and more fire seems like a slap in the face to me.

Paradox was nice. I feel like that was a better direction to take the job, like a convergence of fire, ice, and lightning.

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The non Standard are, who complains (i didnt even kmowed, that something like that existed).

The change looks to be nice.
You allready needed ice attacks to fill the slots, and be able to cast as many fire attacks as possible. Without ice would you burn up your mp to fast.
That the ice attacks give now mp looks logical. Because whe was allready supposed to do that. And i noticed it in the last few days, that it is weird, that it was not allready the case.

What whe now need to know is, how strong the mp recovery will be.
For now are whe have to wait and are able to cast around 2 ice spells, maybe 3, until the mp is full.
Its now the question, if whe need only 2 attacks to do that. Or, will it take more time now.

Aside of that do i agree, that i would like some variation in magic attacks to. Luke firewall / fire beam, as line attack.
Even the new thunderspell is a bit sad.
Its looks impressiv and is a nice idea, with multiple thunderballs, who are creating a thunder rain. But, it feeled more satisfied, to shoot one Ball, who is than expanding.

I just don’t really see any benefit to this

The lore states umbral ice is a state of rest and recovery, not specifically channeling ice magic helps recover mana, I don’t really see why xenoglossy in ice phase is any different to blizzard 4

As for standard vs non standard I don’t really see the point in removing non Standard because full standard is still completely viable. In the current balance non standard optimised to hells and back is about top DPS while full standard BLM is still around average for a melee, that’s basically how BLM balance has always been. What’s the point of removing optimisation for those who want it

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

No it’s a combo of 2 things

1) to get this new skill you must press 6 fire 4’s, this means “short lines” (ie rotation loops where you don’t get umbral hearts so you don’t have enough mana to cast 6 fire 4’s) are pretty much gone since you basically need to do 6 fire 4’s now
2) you now need to cast a spell (presumably an ice spell) in umbral ice to get mana back rather than just being in umbral ice. Most of the “non standard” play in BLM involves transposing into umbral ice then casting large gain spells like thunder 3 or xenoglossy to skip casting weak ice spells like blizzard 3 and blizzard 4

The changes in DT are removing both of these situations

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It surely feels like it was not intentional of them, am I right?

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Originally Posted by Valence

It surely feels like it was not intentional of them, am I right?

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Oh no it 100% feels intentional

If you asked me “what two changes could we make to BLM that would most effectively kill non standard lines” this is exactly the two changes I would suggest and I’m not even a good BLM, I just have more theoretical knowledge of BLM optimisation than I should for my skill in the job

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I just don’t really see any benefit to this

The lore states umbral ice is a state of rest and recovery, not specifically channeling ice magic helps recover mana, I don’t really see why xenoglossy in ice phase is any different to blizzard 4

As for standard vs non standard I don’t really see the point in removing non Standard because full standard is still completely viable. In the current balance non standard optimised to hells and back is about top DPS while full standard BLM is still around average for a melee, that’s basically how BLM balance has always been. What’s the point of removing optimisation for those who want it

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The reason is simple: There exists a player that both cares about being optimal and also enjoying the job fantasy to the fullest. Having non-standard being the meta potency denies this player their maximum satisfaction just to please people who like to parse highest and don't care about job fantasy.

The aforementioned player is the most important player in the game. Obviously what they desire should be meta. Not casting ice magic and casting way less fire 4 is an abomination to that player. If you don't see why xenoglossy isn't any different to blizzard 4, you're not that guy pal.

It's not complicated. Non-standard being the most optimal way of playing the job was a waste.

Yeah it's definitely intentional. what's not intentional is the current nonstandard play.
The game doesnt have elemental strength/weakness mechanics, so BLM whose identity is hitting enemies with the elemental spells they're weak against, need something new to make their elemental spells relevant. Their solution is make all the different element spells have their own use, so we have a reason to use all the different element.
And so they decided to make it like this:

lightning element: DoT
fire element: pure damage
ice element: MP recovery

on paper it looks good. but in practice, with the current job mechanic that relies on mp ticks, ppl find a way to recover MP without casting the ice spells. which defeats the purpose of making the ice spells recover MP.
So the point is they want all the 3 elements used properly, instead of having the ice spell avoided due to the nonstandard play.

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

The reason is simple: There exists a player that both cares about being optimal and also enjoying the job fantasy to the fullest. Having non-standard being the meta potency denies this player their maximum satisfaction just to please people who like to parse highest and don't care about job fantasy.

The aforementioned player is the most important player in the game. Obviously what they desire should be meta. Not casting ice magic and casting way less fire 4 is an abomination to that player. If you don't see why xenoglossy isn't any different to blizzard 4, you're not that guy pal.

It's not complicated. Non-standard being the most optimal way of playing the job was a waste.

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The “the job fantasy is the way to the best DPS” and not “the optimiser is the way to the best DPS” is the most important person why exactly?

Especially given almost all the modern jobs are an affront to the lore they are built on, hell a job like SMN doesn’t even have lore anymore but it’s better because it “feels” like a SMN

I can scarcely think of a job that actually fits its lore at this point yet lore enjoyers are apparently most important

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Originally Posted by Ianmaru

yeah it's definitely intentional. what's not intentional is the current nonstandard play.
the game doesnt have elemental strength/weakness mechanics, so blm whose identity is hitting enemies with the elemental spells they're weak against, need something new to make their elemental spells relevant. Their solution is make all the different element spells have their own use, so we have a reason to use all the different element. They make lightning element: DoT, fire element: pure damage, ice element: MP recovery. on paper it looks good. but in practice, with the current job mechanic that relies on mp ticks, ppl find a way to recover MP without casting the ice spells. which defeats the purpose of making the ice spells recover MP.
So the point is they want all the 3 elements used properly, instead of having the ice spell avoided due to the non standard play.

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Here is an example of the job not fitting the lore. The lore states umbral ice is a rest phase to recover mana. It’s the act of being in umbral ice that recovers mana not casting ice spells specifically. So which is it? Is the lore more important or the “feel of he job”

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

The “the job fantasy is the way to the best DPS” and not “the optimiser is the way to the best DPS” is the most important person why exactly?

Especially given almost all the modern jobs are an affront to the lore they are built on, hell a job like SMN doesn’t even have lore anymore but it’s better because it “feels” like a SMN

I can scarcely think of a job that actually fits its lore at this point yet lore enjoyers are apparently most important



Here is an example of the job not fitting the lore. The lore states umbral ice is a rest phase to recover mana. It’s the act of being in umbral ice that recovers mana not casting ice spells specifically. So which is it? Is the lore more important or the “feel of he job”

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Why? Because they try the hardest on top of playing the game for fantasy. People who care about non-standard are trying to break the game for higher numbers and couldn't care less about the satisfaction of the job design or spells that the devs created. If the highest potency was to press one button, the non-standard player would play that way.

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Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

Why? Because they try the hardest on top of playing the game for fantasy. People who care about non-standard are trying to break the game for higher numbers and couldn't care less about the satisfaction of the job design or spells that the devs created. If the highest potency was to press one button, the non-standard player would play that way.

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Except non standard doesn’t break any lore conventions because as I said umbral ice is what restores MP, not channeling ice magic specifically, this is explained in the like level 5 THM quest

If you oppose non standard lines it sounds like you actually oppose skills that facilitate their ability to exist (which is mainly transpose and xenoglossy) because remember the lore states there is no functional difference between xeno and blizzard 4 when in umbral ice because its umbral ice itself that allows for mana regen (same reason astral fire cancels natural MP regen)

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Here is an example of the job not fitting the lore. The lore states umbral ice is a rest phase to recover mana. It’s the act of being in umbral ice that recovers mana not casting ice spells specifically. So which is it? Is the lore more important or the “feel of he job”

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i would say its not 'not fitting', more like something thats not stated clearly.
even if the lore states umbral ice is for mp recovery, but then the context is you need to cast ice spells and be casting ice spells during the phase, then it goes without saying that you need to cast the ice spells. but then making it based on MP ticks is clearly an oversight from the developers because again they intention is to make the different element spells to be used, not avoided. then the lore was written to fit the job mechs, which was made with the oversight.