Make healers DPS with four or five healing actions

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

I would like if they leaned more into pushing healers to use the right tools for the particular mechanic. More party wide DoTs to force healing over time, some mechanics that require burst healing, some mitigation intensive ones, more use to delayed/compounding heals Astro has, etc. At present, shield healers are outclassing regen healers in every way and we have a ton of healing buttons that never see use.

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A really big problem I feel is the disparity between how healing resources are used in normal content vs hard content. I mentioned this earlier, but in normal content as a Sage, I heal almost entirely with two buttons plus the free healing from Kardia: Kerachole and Ixochole. These cooldowns are so short, and Addersgall is generated at such a rapid pace that fight design cannot keep up. I waste more Druocholes on myself just to regain MP than I actually heal with Kerachole and Ixochole. The entire rest of my healing library is almost completely ignored--reserved only for mistakes that I can't resolve with Kerachole and Ixochole, and even then, we're talking about a single Physis II or Pneuma on rare occasions. Then if we look over to savage, you will use at least most of your healing resources regularly and potentially push you to use GCD healing on occasion.

These two experiences feel like different games, when it wasn't always like that. Because we weren't drowning in healing cooldowns once upon a time, it felt like even though normal content would demand healing at different frequencies than harder content, both created environments where the majority of your healing had a place. You'd have a few healing cooldowns, but you'd need to rely on healing spells as well even in normal environments. You'd heal with them less than you might in savage, but every tool had a purpose. Now, we're swimming in healing cooldowns and DPS refunds.

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Originally Posted by vetch

Yes, it does force me to use them, because I don't like being a non-contributing member of the group. It is very much not optional; there is no such thing as an optional DPS button in this game. You either press your buttons or you're not helping as much as you could be.

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Then it is similarly not optional to perfectly optimize your DPS uptime / perfectly minimize your number of GCD heals.
You either press your DPS button at every opportunity theoretically possible under optimized play, including whatever opportunities have to be made per fight-specific memorizations, or you're not helping as much as you could be.

(Which, btw, will tend to be more impactful than the use of those new tools.)

If you aren't getting berated/scorned/kicked for using an occasional GCD heal, you aren't about to be scolded for frequently forgetting about those additional tools.

Especially if they're on the GCD and therefore come at cost to filler damage, the margin is pretty small compared to the optimizations available already / even without them. AST has two attack Spells, and still gets ~90% of its damage even when sticking to just a single button among that Spell damage kit (Fall Malefic). That's all of some 1.5% of raid dps, less than the damage margin from a standard deviation of Crit/DHit.

Inb4 "they need more than Malefic for 90% of their damage."...

Spells = GCDs. Spell damage = Damage available via GCDs.
Abilities = oGCDs. Ability damage = Damage available via oGCDs.
CD Damage = Damage available from anything with a CD on it, GCD or oGCD.
Magical/unaspected damage = damage that is magical/unaspected...

Anyone who has read a caster tooltip or three should be familiar with this nomenclature.

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Originally Posted by Connor

They could give healers actual gcd buffs, debuffs, utility spells, ways to break up the constant downtime that aren’t just direct damage buttons or more 30s set-and-forget DoTs. And that doesn’t mean they can’t also have more damage, or that every healer needs to suddenly become a buffer/debuffer.

But I’d like to see a healer that focuses more on the supportive role. Like, weaker personal dps and healing than the other jobs, but making good use of buffs to compensate for that weakness (i.e 2.0 Scholar, at least in theory lol)

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This deserves to stay on the current page and is IMHO the solution SE have been overlooking pretty much since AST didn't go further down the buff rabbit hole after HW.

I still think the simple act of taking a healer's DPS potency, packing it up in buff form and then being able to slap it on someone else is the party trick that would solve a bunch of issues all at once. There absolutely has to be a way to do that in a manner where it doesn't spiral out of control with buffs any more than existing 2 minute buff windows already do.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

This deserves to stay on the current page and is IMHO the solution SE have been overlooking pretty much since AST didn't go further down the buff rabbit hole after HW.

I still think the simple act of taking a healer's DPS potency, packing it up in buff form and then being able to slap it on someone else is the party trick that would solve a bunch of issues all at once. There absolutely has to be a way to do that in a manner where it doesn't spiral out of control with buffs any more than existing 2 minute buff windows already do.

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That's what I've been saying.

The trick is not relying on % boosts to the target's damage, or stats like critical hit. It's creating flat potency damage that technically comes from the caster, but is executed by the target, and to make the job functional in solo, that target can also be the caster. I've beaten my engine building concept to death, but how about a slightly different example.

What if Astro had a spell that summons six stars around the target of the spell. Each time that target attacks an enemy, a star is consumed to deal a 100 potency attack that technically comes from you; this can occur once per 3 seconds. You can only apply this buff on 3 characters at a time. Something like that would make a lot of your GCD gameplay build around targeting other players instead of enemies, and you could try and build on that concept more. Because replacing Malefic spam with this doesn't fix the problem, it just redirects it, so you'd want some other support to give more variety to your gameplay, but that could be a place to start.

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Originally Posted by Katish

Ideally, would all healers want that? Personally, I would rather them just make things unique (still focusing on the damage aspect though). I understand the whm philosophy is alright but for all healers they should all excel in something the other doesn't. For whm that would be bursting, sge maybe dots, ast buffs, sch debuffs? Maybe.

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I'm sure not every healer would want that, it's moreso a personal preference since it puts more emphasis on the GCD heals in the kit instead of the oGCD heals. Every healer of course should go about it differently, and should also have a different emphasis on healing styles, like SGE being the 'damage healer', AST being a 'delay/over time healer', WHM a 'burst healer', and SCH a 'mitigative healer', or whatever people find more compelling. At least, that's how I'd handle it, and their lily-like systems reinforce their different ways of dealing damage, WHM bursts with Misery, SCH could get a big DoT, AST could get a party buff, and SGE just deals the damage with the heal similar to current Pneuma. It doesn't have to be a full refund of the damage either if we want healing to have some cost associated with it, making optimized damage an actual risky venture, also any refund mechanic like lilies would need to be time-gated in some way, back-to-back Misery-like attacks would be a nightmare for encounter designers and would encourage heal-spamming rather than thoughtful heal usage.

That said, I just want downtime broken up more often, and for downtime to be more interesting than Glaroilificosis spam. oGCD heals just exacerbate and encourage the spam while making the other half of our kit gather dust most of the time.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

That's what I've been saying.

The trick is not relying on % boosts to the target's damage, or stats like critical hit. It's creating flat potency damage that technically comes from the caster, but is executed by the target, and to make the job functional in solo, that target can also be the caster. I've beaten my engine building concept to death, but how about a slightly different example.

What if Astro had a spell that summons six stars around the target of the spell. Each time that target attacks an enemy, a star is consumed to deal a 100 potency attack that technically comes from you; this can occur once per 3 seconds. You can only apply this buff on 3 characters at a time. Something like that would make a lot of your GCD gameplay build around targeting other players instead of enemies, and you could try and build on that concept more. Because replacing Malefic spam with this doesn't fix the problem, it just redirects it, so you'd want some other support to give more variety to your gameplay, but that could be a place to start.

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That... honestly sounds far more dull even than basic single-target damage buffs?

If I deal flat potency each time a target ally attacks, that has no reward for knowing the output dynamics of my team. That seems even less "support"-like. It's like Brotherhood, but without actually getting to actively do anything with the resources the party produces.

And if there's no CD on the star-summoning, then it just gets incredibly spammy if it includes oGCDs, or if triggered by GCDs only, then your choices just become MCH w/ Heat > MNK > NIN > BRD during Paeon > SAM > BLM w/ Lines > the rest.

I'd honestly take a more powerful GCD Draw over that.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

That... honestly sounds more dull?

If I deal flat potency each time a target ally attacks, I'm no longer rewarded for knowing the output dynamics of my team. That seems even less "support"-like. It's like Brotherhood, but without actually getting to actively do anything with the resources the party produces.

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Then you have 3 spells, one that does more damage when the target inflicts melee physical damage, one for physical ranged damage, and one for magic damage.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Then you have 3 spells, one that does more damage when the target inflicts melee physical damage, one for physical ranged damage, and one for magic damage.

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But that's still timing-insensitive. It's just yet another wonky Ranger/Caster-Healer/Rest distinction. Except, since it's based on the damage type instead of the job's type, it then penalizes any hybrids (DRK, RDM, NIN, PLD, etc.), especially if there's no CD on the star-summoning or they're only active for a short time.

I just don't get how a turret-aura would feel "Support"-like in XIV, regardless of whether that it only fires when an ally does. It's less intuitive despite having a lower reward ceiling for knowledge/awareness than just plain %Damage, %Haste, etc. buffs.



Before attempting turret-reloading GCDs or the like on AST, I'd far rather just revert Cards to a better-balanced version of their Stormblood design concept and then empower them a bit further in compensation for putting Draw (not Play) on the GCD. Buff Astrodyne's output and functionality a bit to make up for the lost APM, with Royal Road, Spread, and returned charges to Redraw (not merely a proc from Draw) taking up the rest.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

That... honestly sounds more dull?

If I deal flat potency each time a target ally attacks, I'm no longer rewarded for knowing the output dynamics of my team. That seems even less "support"-like. It's like Brotherhood, but without actually getting to actively do anything with the resources the party produces.

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I saw it more as a core mechanic than being the actual ‘rotation’ itself. But using the same scenario there could be things like buffs that only affect the ‘Astrologian-dancer-partner’ targets, mitigation/shields/regens associated with the ‘ast/dance-partner’ buffs to balance out spamming it on dps, increased or adjusted card effects based on who has the buff. Plus they could do things like having each consumed ‘star’ give a stacking buff to the Astrologian for ‘big potency attack’, and possibly a competing ‘big potency heal’ (not that we need any more lol).

It’s not much so that simple buff/debuff/utility skills themselves can make healers enjoyable, it’s the way in which they could be utilised to create a healer contribution that ends up more ‘support’ oriented than the ‘direct personal damage’ we have now. Essentially, moving healer dps (in various aspects depending on which job etc) from being less oriented on personal damage output and more on managing party damage output (rDPS?). This is assuming an ideal world where things aren’t ruled so strictly by the ‘120s burst cycle’ and so there’s more freedom in choosing when to leverage things like party buffs

It adds skill expression as it requires situational awareness that isn’t as necessary when output is focused purely on personal dps. And arguably you could even say it raises the skill floor, as having situational awareness is already something any healer is going to possess (albeit in varying amounts lol). But since it still calls on situational awareness over rotational / mechanical awareness, I’d argue it’s easier for healers to adjust to that style than one that’s more dps oriented, if not just because you’re looking at similar things (I.e party list, where they’re positioned, which attack is coming next etc). Plus, rewarding that situational awareness also gives people an incentive to indirectly improve their healing skills too, since ultimately good healing is about not just being able to react to set rotations but adjust healing as necessary depending on the situation (including minimising it)

And as aforementioned, none of that precludes any healer from also having interesting and fun dps options. Especially for Sage, which naturally falls into the ‘more dps oriented healer’ category for players who’d rather play a more ‘selfish-dps’ style healer. The current iteration doesn’t exactly fit what they set out to do but it could easily be adjusted through things like aoe Kardia, varied Kardia effects, more dps options between Phlegma/Toxicon/[Eukrasian] Dosis, and generally more of a ‘rewarded for aggressive play’ style

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

But that's still timing-insensitive. It's just yet another wonky Ranger/Caster-Healer/Rest distinction. Except, since it's based on the damage type instead of the job's type, it then penalizes any hybrids (DRK, RDM, NIN, PLD, etc.), especially if there's no CD on the star-summoning or they're only active for a short time.

I just don't get how a turret-aura would feel "Support"-like in XIV, regardless of whether that it only fires when an ally does. It's less intuitive despite having a lower reward ceiling for knowledge/awareness than just plain %Damage buffs.

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Then you have a spell that puts the symbols of the Twelve on the ground, and whichever one you stand on, your buff enhances the damage dealt by any players who's patron deity matches that symbol. So if for example, two players have the patron deity of Rhalgr in your party, standing on the symbol of Rhalgr will make your spell stronger on those two characters.