Paladin needs to be overhauled

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Originally Posted by Valence

Don't play coy, I actually also hate when people use the perfect play argument without taking into account the actual effort balance behind.

I'm saying that if a target is dropping low and tries to run away, it's a prime target for a stun, because odds are your team is pummeling them pretty hard right now. It doesn't even need coordination, the coordination comes from YOUR end, which is identifying such targets and punishing them for overcommitting by preventing them to escape and securing kills.

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You might hate it but it doesn't negate its validity even now you're still using it, no shit if a target with low health is running any class would pursue for the kill this isnt unique to PLD in this scenario you haven't fully thought about, what's stopping these "amazing" teammates of a vague makeup that have been pummeling the opponent to use their debuff? Is the match-up 1v4 if so why isn't the opponent dead already?
I can go on but unless you decide to actually use PLD more I don't think these examples you come up with hold any water and lastly

"the coordination comes from YOUR end, which is identifying such targets and punishing them for overcommitting by preventing them to escape and securing kills"

this is a playstyle/tactic you wish to impose much like the 1st person who replied said PLD should be a distraction or how about the idiots who say PLD should only move the crystal, now granted of course the coordination comes from me when this opportunity presents itself from the same way when it comes to guardian and I'm keeping on eye on ally' hp & location, however again it's also incumbent upon my team to coordinate as well this isn't a one way street

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Originally Posted by Valence

PLD was actually one of the best if not the best AoE tank in ShB. I should know, I kept having the best damage tallies in feast up to diamond. Confiteor was just that good for it.

Which are what...? RPR and DNC LB?

And what does Confiteor have to do with purify?

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So you're telling me if you're PLD LB is at the 100s mark and you get a debuff, your supposed to just wait and hope no one attacks you? And yeah those LBs too

Maybe I'm wrong but it sounded like you said confetti is a good substitute from previous PLD aoe if I am my apologies

You're telling me that you don't understand the insane advantage a CC or stun is on a target that's out of resources? Even with high HP? If it's being bursted down by your team, it's gonna drop in 2s if stunned. If you're not able to identify such targets and shield bash them, you'd be better off playing a different job I think. That your teamates use their debuffs and CC is totally irrelevant to that point, since yours is already ENOUGH to secure kills on its own. And yes indeed, I also that on other jobs as well, because that's how you should play stuns (Air anchor ready? Frozen ready? Silence is up? Polymorph? Keep and eye out for over exposed enemies that are being attacked by your team, stun them, watch them die instead of getting away). Shieldbash is one of those, and for that point alone, it makes it strong.

There is no playstyle I'm trying to impose, you're free to play however you like, but that is how the job is designed to perform the best. If you don't want to play it like that, then don't, but then don't complain that you're underperforming with it.

You can keep attacking my own experience with the job that you have literally no idea about as much as you want, it's just showing how unsecure you are about your own.

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Originally Posted by RyanCousland

So you're telling me if you're PLD LB is at the 100s mark and you get a debuff, your supposed to just wait and hope no one attacks you? And yeah those LBs too

Maybe I'm wrong but it sounded like you said confetti is a good substitute from previous PLD aoe if I am my apologies

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If you get a debuff, you use purify, that's as simple. Use LB if possible when Purify is ready. Purify will cleanse it and will give you 5s of cc immunity. If you get hit by miracle of nature, sucks to be you, like any other job, because that crap is broken, but at least you're still invulnerable and the best effects from your LB are still going on while they waste crap on you. Else, the only things I can see are those LBs (and MNK but lol if a MNK actually wastes theirs on you), and imo they're spending their LBs and not a spammable stun, so I consider this a decent trade. And using a long charging LB like Contradance during an enemy Phalanx would be totally stupid and wasted anyway.

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Originally Posted by Valence

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There is no playstyle I'm trying to impose, you're free to play however you like, but that is how the job is designed to perform the best. If you don't want to play it like that, then don't, but then don't complain that you're underperforming with it.

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In no way has it been disclosed that this job was designed around this function, you're just making things up at this point

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Originally Posted by Valence

You can keep attacking my own experience with the job that you have literally no idea about as much as you want, it's just showing how unsecure you are about your own.

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Same can be said about you and anyone else

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Originally Posted by Valence

You're telling me that you don't understand the insane advantage a CC or stun is on a target that's out of resources? Even with high HP? If it's being bursted down by your team, it's gonna drop in 2s if stunned. If you're not able to identify such targets and shield bash them, you'd be better off playing a different job I think. That your teamates use their debuffs and CC is totally irrelevant to that point, since yours is already ENOUGH to secure kills on its own. And yes indeed, I also that on other jobs as well, because that's how you should play stuns (Air anchor ready? Frozen ready? Silence is up? Polymorph? Keep and eye out for over exposed enemies that are being attacked by your team, stun them, watch them die instead of getting away). Shieldbash is one of those, and for that point alone, it makes it strong.

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Where are getting this notion that I don't understand how critical stun is? Even tho I'm pretty sure I said how important it is, and how exactly is it irrelevant? Or will your reply be "It just is"

https://youtu.be/0QDcwUQ1RQE

Even tho every fiber is telling me not share this I do so because this will help illustrate my point with the next video
Also I'm aware of the mistakes I made i.e relying way too much on confetti, not using HS in the beginning of my dive, and targeting the GNB but tbf I wanted the whm but my targeting setup is kinda screwy

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Originally Posted by RyanCousland

In no way has it been disclosed that this job was designed around this function, you're just making things up at this point

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You said it yourself, I quote: "this is a playstyle/tactic you wish to impose"

Again, I'm telling you that shieldbash is intended to be played that way, and it's very good for the reasons I exposed. If you want to keep dodging them and diving down on your usual ad personam, then feel free though, but without me. You're not worth my sanity.

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Originally Posted by RyanCousland

Where are getting this notion that I don't understand how critical stun is? Even tho I'm pretty sure I said how important it is, and how exactly is it irrelevant? Or will your reply be "It just is"

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I quote again: "You might hate it but it doesn't negate its validity even now you're still using it, no shit if a target with low health is running any class would pursue for the kill this isnt unique to PLD in this scenario you haven't fully thought about, what's stopping these "amazing" teammates of a vague makeup that have been pummeling the opponent to use their debuff? Is the match-up 1v4 if so why isn't the opponent dead already?"

All i've been saying is that shieldbash is a hard stun with no delay, and it makes it very good by those two facts alone. You keep deflecting on how your team sucks, but your stun doesn't need your team to use their own stuns. Your stun is doing what it is doing the best already: securing kills. If you're not happy with what a stun does, then all stuns and crowd control in pvp are equally bad or worse, and that doesn't make any sense.

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Originally Posted by RyanCousland

https://youtu.be/0QDcwUQ1RQE

Even tho every fiber is telling me not share this I do so because this will help illustrate my point with the next video
Also I'm aware of the mistakes I made i.e relying way too much on confetti, not using HS in the beginning of my dive, and targeting the GNB but tbf I wanted the whm but my targeting setup is kinda screwy

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Very first part I'm actually surprised you managed to survive charging in so deep like that. You're literally closing the door to any hope of retreating. Fortunately the opposite team seem to be crumbling pretty hard in terms of damage and skill gap... You used a good shieldbash to secure a kill on a DRG I think after, which is a good use of it. Later your team reaches the point and gets nuked out of the sky by 3 game changing LBs at the same time (SMN, BLM, WHM). Not much you could do but die. That's how stupidly overtuned LBs are when combined together.

Your team comes back and does mostly the same with a couple of LBs, albeit less fast because not the same combined punch, on top of securing the life of your team with phalanx and cover. Then you secure another kill on a fleeing BLM, good. Good use on bash again on stunning a GNB and killing him with the wind gusts.

Then you pretty much win because your team is literally crushing them.

Can you remind me what was the point again and what this is trying to show in specific? Your use of the job and what the job can do in this game seems pretty solid to me, even though that's just one game among many.

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Originally Posted by Valence

You said it yourself, I quote: "this is a playstyle/tactic you wish to impose"

Again, I'm telling you that shieldbash is intended to be played that way, and it's very good for the reasons I exposed. If you want to keep dodging them and diving down on your usual ad personam, then feel free though, but without me. You're not worth my sanity.

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my apologies, when you said "that is how the job is designed to perform the best." i assumed you meant from a position of authority or dev perspective/intent because it seems we're arguing 2 different subjects youre talking about stun(the skill) im talking about PLD as a whole.

Your comment "I'm saying that if a target is dropping low and tries to run away, it's a prime target for a stun, because odds are your team is pummeling them pretty hard right now. It doesn't even need coordination, the coordination comes from YOUR end, which is identifying such targets and punishing them for overcommitting by preventing them to escape and securing kills" isnt PLD exclusive any job can have this responsibility