MSQ Difficulty and Exclusion

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Originally Posted by Mosha

I mean sure there are examples of such. but my point was that data includes a lot of people who only care about candy crush and have no interest in MMORPGs making it a bad argument to use when talking about ffxiv.

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We agree on that, Mosha. I was talking more on a broad basis..mobile gaming is kinda a separate market and yeah there is some wiggle room.

I concede the point.

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Originally Posted by Eraden

The OP is demonstrating a classic elitist mindset. MSQs are too easy for the OP so ramp up the difficulty of the MSQs regardless of whether or not others are adversely affected and/or even excluded. This is classic elitism at its finest. Making the game harder so that only the OP and fewer and fewer people can participate. You don't have to be at the top of the game charts to be elitist. You only need to be willing to exclude others below you.

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This is a ridiculous exaggeration.

While I disagree with aspect of the OP's post, your comparison to Savage is jumping to the opposite extreme. We could see an uptick in the MSQ content difficulty, or casual content in general, without it being anywhere close to Savage. Right now, the MSQ and most dungeon content is borderline fail-proof. There's a decently large middle ground between so comically easy it takes effort to fail and Savage. Whether you agree with the OP or not, their stance is moving closer to that middle ground where dungeons can actually hurt you compared to now where a single pulling tank is quite literally useless. None of that is elitism either because the OP gives examples of content casual players have already cleared en masse. The only players "excluded" would be those who want to put in almost no effort yet still expect a clear.

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None of that is elitism either because the OP gives examples of content casual players have already cleared en masse. The only players "excluded" would be those who want to put in almost no effort yet still expect a clear.

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Reread his post...OP wanted to exclude people over a certain age group.

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While I admittedly haven't had the time to read each post in this thread, I just wanted to chime in and say that I'm not sure that making MSQ content easier in order to not exclude older players is a good thing. Why would someone in their late teens or early 20s want to play a game that was also designed to accommodate for the reaction times of someone significantly older? I do think that having a set target demographic in terms of age is a good thing, especially in terms of difficulty level.

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Wanting to exclude people because they dont meet his "standards" isnt elitist...?

Yes..yes it is.

There was also another commenter in another thread that bluntly said disabled people shouldnt even play.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Reread his post...OP wanted to exclude people over a certain age group.



Wanting to exclude people because they dont meet his "standards" isnt elitist...?

Yes..yes it is.

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Now re-read mine; specifically where I said say, they OP gave examples. Let's look at those, shall we?

"Titania
• All 3 NieR raids
• All 3 Ivalice raids
• Delubrum Reginae"

Titania is far from difficult. She simply can kill people expecting a complete faceroll.

While partly subjective, the Nier raids are among the easiest introduced. Yoshida even acknowledged as much, saying they were designed to be easier than normal because they wanted to appeal towards Nier fans potentially unfamiliar with FFXIV.

That leaves the Ivalice series and Delubrum. The former is more or less average in difficulty. The bosses can kill you, which is more than one can say about any dungeon boss. Nevertheless, they aren't walls even in their heyday. The exception being Thunder God Cid before the massive nerfs that completely neutered him. Delubrum, on the other hand, is where I'd disagree with the OP. Those bosses have more intricate designs and mechanics better fit for Normal modes.

All in all, these examples largely don't lineup with excluding the vast majority of players given it's all content that currently exists and has been cleared by a significant amount of players, especially Titania.

I willingly concede on difficulty.

Ivalice Im not really a fan of, I preferred the CT series tbh in terms of mechanics etc plus its fun ( I wish we had more to do inside the tower truthfully, explore more of its innards and maybe more lore what is can do and why...) , Ivalice is okay but not my favourite.

Nier, yes I agree..but the last one was somewhat..annoying....with some of the mechanics..then again, maybe thats more of a case to do with me needing more practice than the mechanics themselves..so yes, Ill agree on that as well.

Good point.

Titania is the exception as it IS an MSQ raid (Ill add here that Nier and Ivalice arent tied to MSQ...Ivalice is to unlock Bozja , with the counterpoint Bozja is NOT part of the main MSQ...I think you see what I mean on that one.

The key element here is we NEED to separate what is in the MSQ as opposed to what is not...maybe thats where the comparison falls over, Id like your thoughts on that. Delubrum is again not main MSQ, its part of Bozja and is optional content if you are after a relic weapon....sooooo..Delubrum vs say Dying Gasp as a contrast?

MSQ on its own should NOT be a bloody brick wall, the OPs attitudes on older players actually grates on me..I was actually astounded that ANYONE is still stuck in a 2004 mindset..but I am sure he means well, bless his gentle, kind heart.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

This is a ridiculous exaggeration.

While I disagree with aspect of the OP's post, your comparison to Savage is jumping to the opposite extreme. We could see an uptick in the MSQ content difficulty, or casual content in general, without it being anywhere close to Savage. Right now, the MSQ and most dungeon content is borderline fail-proof. There's a decently large middle ground between so comically easy it takes effort to fail and Savage. Whether you agree with the OP or not, their stance is moving closer to that middle ground where dungeons can actually hurt you compared to now where a single pulling tank is quite literally useless. None of that is elitism either because the OP gives examples of content casual players have already cleared en masse. The only players "excluded" would be those who want to put in almost no effort yet still expect a clear.

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There is a considerable amount of content that bridges the gap between the MSQs and Savage tier content. There is no need to force the MSQs to be harder if you are looking for any other sort of challenge. It already exists. MSQs, more specifically the trials, are NOT easy for me to do. Titania was quite difficult for me to get done. Does that mean that in your eyes I should be excluded because I don't want to put in any effort? Well newsflash: by the time I got finished doing Titania I was shaking like a leaf. I was trying my damnedest to do everything right and barely got it done. I have a few friends who also have difficulty getting the trials done. But in your eyes we are people "who want to put in almost no effort yet still expect a clear". I am going to chalk this up to you being grossly ignorant of what people like myself go through when playing this game, rather than you trying to outright libel me. I am hoping that you are not that malicious. The simple fact is there will be people who will be excluded from this game if the MSQs are made harder and not all of those people are lazy like you seem to suggest.

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Originally Posted by Eraden

What an ridiculous conclusion that is. It is a FACT that some people will be excluded if the MSQ content is made harder. For some of us, the MSQ content is already at our limits. People WILL be excluded if the content is made harder. And your argument is....that's good? As long as you get your challenging content it's ok to exclude some of us? What a selfish person you are! There is already challenging content for you. Leave the MSQs alone so that more of us can play.

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They're saying they don't like being thrown under your generalized umbrella of what you believe those with disabilities to be capable of or uncapable of. They dislike you using them as a part of your argument as you're dehumanizing them.

MSQ in FFXIV has never really been challenging though. it's the appropriate difficulty when you take into account the target audience for the MSQ, honestly.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

They're saying they don't like being thrown under your generalized umbrella of what you believe those with disabilities to be capable of or uncapable of. They dislike you using them as a part of your argument as you're dehumanizing them.

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Good God are you ever trying to reach. Everything in your post is a complete fabrication and it's disgusting. I made no generalizations of the kind you suggest. There will definitely be some people who will be excluded from MSQs. Not all people with disabilities or who are aged fall into this category and I never made such a statement. I was referring to people such as myself and others that I know of who have similar difficulties playing this game. Do you even understand English? Do you not understand that some of us does not mean ALL of us? Again with the strawman arguments and gaslighting. If you want to call out someone for making a sweeping generalization, you should be calling out ForteNightshade for claiming that the only people who would be excluded by making MSQs harder would be those "who want to put in almost no effort yet still expect a clear". And for you to claim that I am USING people who are aged and/or have disabilities and dehumanizing them is a bloody lie and an insult. I KNOW of other people like myself who struggle to play these games. None of them want to give up playing. None of us consider any of us to be less than human. You are the only one here who is tossing out this idiotic argument.

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Originally Posted by Eraden

Good God are you ever trying to reach. Everything in your post is a complete fabrication and it's disgusting.

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ah yes my own emotions are a fabrication.