the normal content is too easy

When people hear this, they jump to 'EXTREME/SAVAGE/ULTIMATE' and "DARKSOULS" way too quickly. What about midcore content, if you want to enjoy a challenge without having to watch 30 minutes of guides and partyfinder a coordinated group? You can make engaging content that can still be cleared in one or two tries. For example, what about (Hard) dungeons from ARR/HW? Those had interesting and unique mechanics that weren't immediately obvious but fun to figure out, and punishing, but not so much that failing a single mechanic immediately wiped the run. Why not do something actually interesting with expert dungeons again since they're OPTIONAL content? Why apply the same cookie cutter design to them to make everyone ages 5 and up able to clear them when they're optional? I'm fine with the core MSQ content being baseline easy mode, but the midcore of the game used to exist and now it does not and this is a problem that can absolutely be solved with slightly more complex optional content. So why don't they?

I would like content to remain the "difficulty" it has on release or getting a just little bit easier through better gear over the years, but not to the amount how it currently is.

On the other side, how would it be if, let's say, the final endwalker trial on release would be of the same "difficulty" an older trial has where mechanis almost doesn't matter anymore.
I just don't like that content is literally just made to be played within the first few months after release and after that "the way it's meant to be played" isn't really possible anymore because of the scaling systems the game has, even if you take the hurdles on you to find enough players to do it MINE.

The normal modes will always be easy because in the past they weren't and the result was that vast numbers of players couldn't experience the stories that go with them

Players on here deal only in extremes. When players ask for something more engaging then faceroll, the first answer is "do savage", why cant there be anything between faceroll and savage/extremes. If a tank can solo a dungeon or raid, maybe consider addressing this. We don't ask for a tank nerf we ask for something more engaging.

Why cant 4 man content be tuned to the point it needs 4 ppl to work together, is it to much to ask for this on lv 80/90 after you done about 200 duties and have like a 50-75hours in combat? Let players who are here solely for the story do the dungeon with trusts but anything else including roulettes should not be doable by 1-2 ppl and 2 players afk. That way they can get their story done on easy mode, they wont need tome gear if the hardest thing they do is a dungeon with trusts.

Imagine doing a EXPERT dungeon that needs a healer. Difficulty in a game should always be a incline, we are not asking for a wall we ask for a incline after hundreds of hours of combat. In FFXIV combat starts as a incline and eventually it becomes a straight line.

Up the difficulty of "normal" content and give players who are not up for that an option to enter with 100% echo for no tome reward and no raid reward. If all you want is the story, you don't need the gear anyway.

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Originally Posted by Voidedge_Ragna

Players on here deal only in extremes. When players ask for something more engaging then faceroll, the first answer is "do savage", why cant there be anything between faceroll and savage/extremes. If a tank can solo a dungeon or raid, maybe consider addressing this. We don't ask for a tank nerf we ask for something more engaging.

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This right here.

As a Savage and Ultimate raider, I don't want the normal modes or dungeons to be blisteringly hard but simply more engaging. Weeping City and Dun Scaith on release were some of the most fun I've had and either were some immense challenge. In fact, Weeping City was my very first 24 man. Final Steps of Faith is another stand out as is Alexander. Unfortunately, all of them are a shell of themselves nowadays due to job changes and no consideration whatsoever for balance below 80. Weeping City completely melts now. Even fights not that old like E3 and E4 fall over before any of their major mechanics happen. Speaking of, a good number of these encounters don't have fundamentals they really should. Why even bother introducing a tank swap debuff in E4N when it's so pathetically weak tanks won't swap? Why have stack markers that two people can survive with barely a scratch?

Expert dungeons are probably the stand out example of simply poor design. We've reached a point where healers literally aren't required. Naturally, this is partly because tank sustain is enormous this expansion but it's still ridiculous that dungeons are such a joke an entire role can be omitted without a second thought.

When people ask for the game to be harder, they aren't wanting Savage or even Extreme difficulty. They're wanting to feel engaged. Going into a dungeon or trial you know you'll utterly obliterate isn't all that fun for a lot of people. It also leads to poor habits being formed. Why dodge an AoE and lose uptime as a melee DPS when you know it'll do next to nothing damage wise? We see all these arguments about YPYT without discussing the actual reason people do it. They can. A healer isn't threatened by three mobs with the ferocity of a six month old kitten.

All in all, making the game easy and approachable is perfectly fine. There is, however, a middle ground between easy mode and "so incredibly safe a toddler could clear."

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

As far as normal content goes, this has been the case since (and inclusive of) Heavensward, excluding the major story trial. E.g. Shinryu, Hades, Endsinger on launch. I don't really see why they should maintain or gravitate towards incremental difficulty curves for normal mode content. From experience, at any point we've had 'difficult' normal content, people have only ever generally avoided it at all costs. See the number of people trying to avoid anything beyond Weeping City by shafting their own item level. Also referring to Shinryu here where people would go as far as either AFK on entry, or duty leave for a 30-minute penalty on release. Granted, the community has come a long way, but personally, I don't really see many people standing by this directive beyond just platitudes.

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ilvl cheesing has nothing to do with difficulty but efficiency. Tower of Paradigm Breach gives the exact same rewards as Syrcus Tower. One takes upwards of 40+ minutes while the other takes 10-15 tops with zero chance of wiping. If all you care about is EXP, which most people ilvl cheesing do, then why would you want to double your time required for the same reward?

Since someone brought it up, Steps of Faith also suffered from a similar problem: the rewards simply didn't outweigh the time investment. Prior to being nerfed into the ground, it could take upwards of 15+ minutes, and unlike every other fight in the game, had no wipe condition. Which meant if you failed the Dragon Slayer mechanic, you had to wait until Vishap reached the end and gave you a Duty Failed before trying again. Adding insult to injury, the DPS check was incredibly high. You either needed two Slayers to hit or absolutely insane DPS to clear. All of this meant taking the 30 minute penalty was often better as you may actually be waiting less than if you stayed. We've seen this exact scenario play out with MSQ Roulette. People constantly leave Castrum because Praetorium gives double the EXP for only 15 minutes more "effort".

If they nerfed Crystal Tower's EXP; forced us to be synced properly so the raids aren't laughably easy or buffed the EXP in the higher level raids, you'd see far less people cheesing their ilvl because it wouldn't matter anymore.

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Originally Posted by Soxxx

When people hear this, they jump to 'EXTREME/SAVAGE/ULTIMATE' and "DARKSOULS" way too quickly. What about midcore content

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Originally Posted by Voidedge_Ragna

Players on here deal only in extremes. When players ask for something more engaging then faceroll, the first answer is "do savage", why cant there be anything between faceroll and savage/extremes.

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We are getting Criterion dungeons through this expansion.

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Originally Posted by Kyrj

You follow someone who knows what they're doing and learn that way, next time you're in there you can lead. There's no "math" or w/e involved. It's a rotating floor, not rocket science.

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For the normal version, yes. For extreme it's different because it combines two of them at once forcing you to work out the safe spot with no telegraphs. For extreme, it seemed evident that the people I talked to in parties did not learn to lead after only one clear, but after enough clears where they actually tried to identify the safe spots themselves.

One thing I wouldn't mind is: try to have the story content always be around as difficult as it was at release. The old stuff is far too easy these days.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

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iLv cheesing also gives plenty of leeway to skipping potentially difficult mechanics that can serve as a barrier. E.g. Judgement Nissi in A4S, or giving you a larger vitality buffer pool allowing you to outright ignore mechanics that may otherwise kill. You take away the potentially stringent DPS checks, in addition to a much larger health pool and mechanic skips due to disproportionately high DPS than what the encounter otherwise requests then yes it becomes easier because it invariably potentially strips away the components of the fight which made it difficult in the first place. Once again, refer to A4S, and Ravana Ex - Whether artificial or otherwise. So yes, it has as much to do with difficulty as it does with efficiency. You'll have an incredibly hard time convincing me there's no relevance between iLv cheesing and difficulty, practically everything that happens as a result of cheesing can translate onto the difficulty. Shinryu doesn't exactly emanate the same level of threat or challenge when you do the encounter in full Valerian/Atiquated AF, versus when you do it in Scaevan, or even Ryumyaku for that matter Tidal wave is the only mechanic expressing any real potential threat unless you elect to ignore the ATE, diamond dust doesn't even exist anymore, really.

I don't even disagree with the other points because that is what I was attempting to highlight. Nobody is going to do encounters when the rewards aren't proportionally adequate. Especially if a more efficient viable alternative exists. This is the problem with making normal content incrementally difficult. In the end, nobody cares for that thirst for challenge versus the ease and efficiency with which they complete it when it comes to doing roulettes, and making something engaging is different from encounters being too difficult, or too easy. Again, this is the problem with these statements beyond platitudes. Going back to your own example. Why is someone going to do something like Paradigms Breach, or even the Stormblood 24-man raid series when a much more efficient viable solution exists in shafting your own item level and completing easier and more efficient duties in a fraction of the time. If we speak in terms of leveling here, then why would people bother with roulettes in any circumstance? I could effectively get the same, if not a better reward for time invested by doing something such as Bozja. People will seek efficiency regardless of whether you place it there, or somewhere else. 40 minutes of time yields much better rewards by doing Bozja than what it would doing Paradigms Breach - Heck at this point even open-world FATEs would.

Edit (for middle-ground):
Would I enjoy something that nicely fits between Extreme and Savage difficulty? Or even between story difficulty and Extreme difficulty? Yeah, sure. But would I want that to be the norm of content, inclusive of roulettes? No, not really. There are much better approaches they could elect to take. Story content and levelling content are just that. It's a chance for people to experience the story or level of jobs and classes they aren't as experienced with. They need an extra layer, and personally, I don't see that extra layer of difficulty coming at the expense of upscaling the norm of content barring certain trials, and nor should it, I don't think.

My main question for you really, is you mention it not being blisteringly difficult, which I think is a given. But what is your difficulty? AR-level difficulty? A bit beyond? Extreme difficulty without enrages? Or just the current difficulty except rewarding you for potentially utilizing your full toolkit? (e.g. stun, silence), and beyond that could you really see the community not being torn by it? Harder content ultimately comes at the expense of people being more woefully underprepared or ill-equipped for it <- This is personally why I don't advocate for it to be the new norm, versus a separate, optional system entirely at endgame. Sorry for the lengthy reply. Seemed like an interesting and reasonable topic of discussion.

Everyone talking about normal content being hard or not, but has anyone asked if the hard content is normal enough. Just food for thought.

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Originally Posted by ValStryder

Um...Stuns are NOT interrupts. They do interrupt, but they are not the same. Creatures that are immune to stuns can still be interrupted. How do you not know this as a tank? Interrupts also function differently mechanically. An interrupt will trigger a longer cooldown for the enemy than normal, whereas with a stun the enemy has a fair chance to immediately attempt to re-cast the ability once the stun expires.

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Stuns are interrupts. Can't think of any game I've played where a stun is not considered an interrupt.

But when since early coil have I ever needed to Interupt anything??

It's a skill that's absolutely useless in 99% of content.and in the small amount of content where an interrupt has been required shield bash or something usually does the job...

It's like how many healers don't even slot esuna on there bars these days. Because debunks either can't be cleansed at all. Or are cleansed a different way. Like a full heal cleanses dooms. Or they drop off in 4 seconds anyway.so by the time you finish your current glare / broil / whatever the debuff has dropped off anyway so pointless casting esuna.