At this point I wouldn't be surprised if in future expansions, enmity was just baked into the tank mastery trait and they changed tank stances to be DPS stances because newer players can't seem to grasp the idea of pressing one button to gain aggro.
I think the game moved past the point of 2.0-4.2 tank design. At this point I would just like to see auto cleaves from bosses again to teach dps to respect the front of the boss and to teach tanks how to face the boss away from the party.
Multiple things are to blame with how easy and simple tanking has become at the cost of accessibility but I think better tool tips would help as the first step. An instance at like lvl 30 that "tests" you current job role would go a long way in acclimating newer players. Nothing crazy just a simple game of hold aggro and keep mobs away from a target.
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02-11-2022, 09:18 AMMarxam
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02-11-2022, 01:04 PMZairavaI think I would prefer them to do that than actually bring back old enmity management, and in hindsight, would've been a much better way to go about it imo. I'll take back dps stance back with open arms. We have shirk and provoke if we need to pass it to another tank (bearing that in mind, would be nice if we could use shirk on other tanks in alliance raids...)Quote:
Originally Posted by Marxam
I agree on bringing back auto cleaves too, I've started to see dps stand with me more often now and get erased in certain dungeons/raids and not others...it would be a welcome return to let dps know as far as I'm concerned. -
02-11-2022, 01:11 PMUndeadfireTell that to cure 1 spammers who still insist Freecure is good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marxam
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02-11-2022, 01:15 PMZairavaGives me conniptions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Undeadfire
Do they even have a reason they keep Freecure in the game instead of just evolving Cure I to Cure II? -
02-11-2022, 01:55 PMSauteedIndeed it moved "past" that.. or regressed. But semantics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marxam
Onto the 2nd thing you mention here.. I actually would like to see more non floor marked bosses like pre-nerf coincounter from Aurum vale but the fact they implemented a "nerf" to him like like 8 years later tells me it's "cool" to blow engaging content that makes you desire to pay to attention out the window for the sake of people who are going to play the game for a month and unsubscribe because random "asian mmo grinder" came out and MMORPG.com said it's the greatest thing they ever got a chance to play because screenshots. With double thumbs up editor approval.
I'd like to see more bizarro "boss" encounter design. Don't be afraid to get a little weird. And when I'm saying weird, imagine having to fight a kraken style boss underwater, and people that are sufficiently leveled as monk get the ability to use specific actions to restrain tentacles, so the dps have an easier time dps'ing.. or things like that.
Instead what we get is extremely telegraphed hur durr yawnfest for 7-12 mins per "queue". yeah occasionally I derp step into yellow markers in the floor after drinking like 9 beers or something on the weekend but, they willingly show they gut content that's been there for nearly a decade just totally randomly and out of the blue, while going forward and making everything in a dungeon as extremely boring as humanly possible. This trend will continue, and people like me will continue to bitch. Nothing will change except some new tier of making this the most mind numblingly dumb ass experience possible will come to fruition. And people will continue to praise the 'accessibilty" of the game. I mean if I wanted mind numbing non-interactivity I'd watch CSI or something dumbassness on the tele. I want to be mentally stimulated and engage in "content" if i'm gonna play a video game. Not laugh because I didn't move out of an aoe and took like 7% overall health damage from the main boss of a dungeon. -
02-11-2022, 01:56 PMShurrikhanI mean, I'd go for that anyways. One less button-press of bloat outside of multi-tank content in which I'll have more burst than the other tank but don't actually want to tank for... reasons? (And even that could just be handled with Provoke leaving a persisting enmity modifier, with only one instance of the debuff possible per target. Voila.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Marxam
Generally, we'd less often have reason to have our enmity mods off than on, so making the more commonly useful state the passive and the more situational the choice seems plenty reasonable. -
02-11-2022, 07:06 PMMerlinCrossI don’t agree with the sentiment, but I agree currently there’s no point anymore. Just put the fork in it and call it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shurrikhan
I mean at this point we only have this pseudo aggro because “oh we need to make sure the tank is the one eating damage, cause trinity”.
Through if they make the stance give increased DPS like what Marxam suggested, haven’t we just Gone in a circle somewhat? Both tanks are going to slam that DPS gain MT or OT so why have the stance at all? -
02-11-2022, 07:33 PMAtreides
Why is this in the tank forums? Aggro management belongs into the DPS forums because it was hardly our responsibility in endgame content. By removing that they made it easier on the DPS and tanks don't suffer from bad DPS not knowing how to use it anymore.
This is coming from someone that has played Ninja in ARR/HW and MT since end of HW until today. I had more responsibility on Aggro when I played NIN than I had ever on tank. -
02-11-2022, 08:04 PMMerlinCrossI could give you reasons but I’m just done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atreides
If people hate aggro, care only for DPS, the bosses do most the tank work by themselves now, and DRK is still held up as best tank but weakest at it; why does the tank role exist?
Because DPS can’t? Weeeee. Riveting experience for all.
I’ve brought this up before; remove Trinity, make it a free for all rocket tag dodge style system. They won’t of course, if for no other reason than Healers must heal it seems.
But Tanks must tank? Show me how we do so, please. I’m missing where the tanks are. -
02-11-2022, 08:23 PMAtreidesI don't know what kind of content you've been doing but tanking has it's own responsibility, position bosses, tankbusters aswell as mitigating AoE damage, FFXIV has plenty of mechanic heavy fights that keep you busy, granted aggro management is not a big concern unless you bork a tankswap somehow...Quote:
Originally Posted by MerlinCross
But this thread is named "bring back..." there is nothing to bring back outside of ressource management, because other than that aggro was a group efford not a tank efford, we had aggro combos yes but we did it maybe once in our opener and thats it. DPS had to use Diversion, Shadewalker etc... to funnel us with enmity. So bringing back aggro management implies to bring back DPS responsibility for aggro. That would require a huge rework yet again.
Other than that, yes I couldn't care less about aggro management, if it's there I deal with it, if it's not then I have no issues either. I can adapt, the reason they made aggro so easy is mostly because others tried to mimic the good tanks and tried to deal more damage but failed. SE doesn't want to cater to the few good players but casuals.