Tired of Zenos (spoilers)

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Originally Posted by Naoki34

Zenos was a terrible bad guy, he was impressing by his relentless power during Stormblood's MSQ, but in the end, with his selfish aim to have fun in front of a powerful enemy, and making a complete mockery of the symbolism of the sacred katana of the samurai spirit, just by the fact that he had 3 of them. No need for 2 swords for the samurai's code. The nito style (2 swords) invented by Miyamoto Musashi was considered dishonourable before he was later taken as a national hero.

His end was +/- epic by his fighting, and he committed suicide instead of assuming. And SE thought he was too cool, as a villain let's make him come back thanks to the scenarium. He transcends death thanks to a technological copy of the power of the WoL.

And here he is as the headliner for Endwalker, it doesn't hype me at all, and even less with the other old joker type cheap joker, having as appearance and body that of Stormblood's worst second villain...

It's really not great. SE showed us that he was able to make cool baddies with great ideals for their races in Shadowbringer, but here...

No hype, although I'm curious to know what the WoL is going to do on the moon !

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Him making a mockery of something like the Katana is fits him though. It is literally just a tool to him. It has no meaning to him beyond that. It fails him, hence he breaks it to find another better tool.

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Originally Posted by Edax

And who is the arbiter of what conflict is unnecessary or not? Were the animals wrong to aggressively defend the forest? Were the humans wrong to try to make a living in the forest to defend themselves? And who truly started this conflict in Princess Mononoke? Who is the evil party in the conflict?

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That would depend on the story. I am only responding to you saying they are rebelling just because they don't like a form of government that you say is not ruled by an evil person. That means the rebellion is unnecessary.

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Just because you disagree with their viewpoint does not mean you should automatically see them as evil.

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It's not a matter of disagreeing. It's a matter of the conflict they are causing.

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Originally Posted by linayar

That would depend on the story. I am only responding to you saying they are rebelling just because they don't like a form of government that you say is not ruled by an evil person. That means the rebellion is unnecessary.

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Velvet Revolutions are extremely rare, working within the system to overthrow an autocracy is not exactly realistic. Conflict is often the best option out of many bad options. That does not mean the conflict is evil.

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Originally Posted by Edax

Velvet Revolutions are extremely rare, working within the system to overthrow an autocracy is not exactly realistic. Conflict is often the best option out of many bad options. That does not mean the conflict is evil.

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Yeah. When the system has things stacked against you, playing by the rules those in power lay out for you isn't a good way to free yourself. Take FFXIV for example we don't free ala mhigo and doma by working within Garlemald's corrupt system. In Stormblood the good guys are the proactive ones instigating the conflict to free these provinces, and the empire is more reactionary to what the rebels are doing to maintain an injust status quo.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

An irredeemable evil villain can be fun at times. I like Kefka, the Emperor from Star Wars etc. But Zenos just never had any appeal for me. Not every villain needs a sympathetic motive, but he never felt legitimately threatening becuase of how his boss fights were handled/lack of consequences for losing to him and his personality is just kind of dull IMO.

Without any sense of actual danger that bad things might actually happen because of him or an interesting personality etc I just had nothing to latch onto.

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The consequences were we couldn't kill him and he kept killing, leaving us alive to pick up the pieces and get more pissed at him as time went on. It's little different than joining a pvp game and getting permadominated by a player who hasn't been outside in the last year and a half. So of course we had to "git gud" or the freak wasn't going to stop.

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Originally Posted by EgilTheStressedMage

The consequences were we couldn't kill him and he kept killing, leaving us alive to pick up the pieces and get more pissed at him as time went on. It's little different than joining a pvp game and getting permadominated by a player who hasn't been outside in the last year and a half. So of course we had to "git gud" or the freak wasn't going to stop.

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If by he 'kept killing' you mean he goes and sits on his throne and doesn't really do much but wait for us to come to him.

And as for the 'git gud' thing that's another thing.

He soundly kicks our asses twice, then suddenly at the end we're able to fight him for no other reason than 'whoops it's climax time time for the WOL to win this one.' At no point did we go out of our way to do anything to become stronger. We didn't do anything to develop a counter to his abilities or a strategy to face him. We were able to beat him for the most boring of reasons: we kept doing the same stuff we'd done all through ARR and HW and our numbers went up.' Even Shinryu falls victim to this. In 3.55 he was such a big deal a character gives his life just to stall it awakening and we risked unleashing Omega rather than fight him ourselves, at the end of 4.0? We just stroll up and kill it like any other primal.

SE, I'm begging you, model swap zenos with a bear and be done with it. His character is best casted as just a really annoying grizzly bear.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

If by he 'kept killing' you mean he goes and sits on his throne and doesn't really do much but wait for us to come to him.

And as for the 'git gud' thing that's another thing.

He soundly kicks our asses twice, then suddenly at the end we're able to fight him for no other reason than 'whoops it's climax time time for the WOL to win this one.' At no point did we go out of our way to do anything to become stronger. We didn't do anything to develop a counter to his abilities or a strategy to face him. We were able to beat him for the most boring of reasons: we kept doing the same stuff we'd done all through ARR and HW and our numbers went up.' Even Shinryu falls victim to this. In 3.55 he was such a big deal a character gives his life just to stall it awakening and we risked unleashing Omega rather than fight him ourselves, at the end of 4.0? We just stroll up and kill it like any other primal.

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I was talking about through Stormblood. Also keep in mind we wouldn't even be able to get to him without amassing an army of our own to break through the door to Ala Mhigo. The only reason he didn't finish us off is because he was mildly curious about how long we lasted compared to everyone else. I would also remind you that it's literally the job of the WoL to kill primals, and this one was summoned from the dying prayers of Ilberd, his army, and both of Nidhogg's eyes which btw we didn't have access any longer to Hraesvelgr's eyes. Shinryu also could have been greatly wounded by Omega as when we meet the latter he's perfectly fine while FFV monster in a box over there was captured. We would have killed it eventually, but it's hard to take on a level 70 when you're level 63.

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Originally Posted by Edax

Conflict is often the best option out of many bad options. That does not mean the conflict is evil.

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Yes, it is, when you default to think it's ok to just overthrow an existing government because you felt like it. That's anarchy.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Yes, it is, when you default to think it's ok to just overthrow an existing government because you felt like it. That's anarchy.

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I just said it is often the best option out of many bad options, I didn't say you default to it. And why is overthrowing an existing government definitively "evil"? And why is anarchy definitively "evil"?
Do you consider the United States definitively "evil" for overthrowing British rule? Is it really all so simple?