Change The Rules For Leaving Dungeons (aka Why People Insta-Quit Castrum Meridianum)

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

Waiting a couple of seconds for a new person to join screws the group?

You're not entitled to that specific person's time. You're not entitled to anyone's time. If the person decides to leave for any given reason, the devs have put the option there. There's no arguing about it. And the "well, if they queued for it, they must be forced to run it" comes from a place of, honestly, butthurt.

Again, the devs put there an option for anyone to leave any duty, for whatever reason, and no one is entitled to anyone's time. You don't get to dictate what people do with their time and if them leaving offends you, it's your choice to get offended over it.

There's also the ridiculous notion of people here expecting others to lose their account, just because they left one dungeon right at the beginning.

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If it's a necessary role then yes, it screws the group. Can't make different rules for different classes, though.

Obviously we're not entitled to any specific persons time, nor is any specific person entitled to waste our time. If you don't want to run or can't run then don't queue. If you don't want a specific dungeon then don't join a random roulette. If you do queue you're expected to do the run, and are punished if you don't. That's how it's setup; a punishment to deter leaving. If the existing punishment isn't adequately deterring it then more punishments may be necessary.

I'm not saying anyone should lose their account.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

If it's a necessary role then yes, it screws the group. Can't make different rules for different classes, though.

Obviously we're not entitled to any specific persons time, nor is any specific person entitled to waste our time. If you don't want to run or can't run then don't queue. If you don't want a specific dungeon then don't join a random roulette. If you do queue you're expected to do the run, and are punished if you don't. That's how it's setup; a punishment to deter leaving. If the existing punishment isn't adequately deterring it then more punishments may be necessary.

I'm not saying anyone should lose their account.

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In that case, I am entitled to good performance, and all bad players should get penalties for wasting people's time.


Same principle.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

If it's a necessary role then yes, it screws the group. Can't make different rules for different classes, though.

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If another player of the same role can join right afterwards, no one's getting screwed. Given that's an option in every DF-initiated duty, that's a non-argument. People waiting 5 seconds or a couple of minutes for someone to join doesn't screw anyone except people who think they're entitled to anyone else's time.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Obviously we're not entitled to any specific persons time, nor is any specific person entitled to waste our time. If you don't want to run or can't run then don't queue. If you don't want a specific dungeon then don't join a random roulette. If you do queue you're expected to do the run, and are punished if you don't. That's how it's setup; a punishment to deter leaving. If the existing punishment isn't adequately deterring it then more punishments may be necessary.

I'm not saying anyone should lose their account.

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Leaving at the beginning doesn't waste anyone's time. You haven't even started the run, they didn't leave halfway during a pull or during a boss. It's the least intrusive way to leave a dungeon if you have to, for whatever reason. Would you rather them sabotage the run, because they we're forced to run the dungeon they didn't want to? Because there are miriad ways to do it, that don't scream "sabotaging a run".

And like I said earlier, harsher punishments will just hurt queues. People will just stop queuing for the "annoying" roulettes, if they can't use the functions the devs put there for that specific purpose (otherwise, they'd have disabled the button when running roulettes).

Leaving is a players right, by no means should it be an expectation for players to run content they do not enjoy even if it is a roulette.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

In that case, I am entitled to good performance, and all bad players should get penalties for wasting people's time.


Same principle.

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If players are intentionally playing poorly to screw the group then sure. You can already report and/or kick people who are AFKing or coasting.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

If players are intentionally playing poorly to screw the group then sure. You can already report and/or kick people who are AFKing or coasting.

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Except you can't mind read people to find out if they're playing poorly on purpose, or if they just have that skill level.

Same way with anyone who leaves a duty

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

If players are intentionally playing poorly to screw the group then sure. You can already report and/or kick people who are AFKing or coasting.

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People get upset if you talk to them about their performance, because "it's just a game you elitist" so I propose the game automatically penalizes people who play under a certain threshold. If you are doing say, half the dps or less of the highest dps in the group, you get booted from the instance with an hour long penalty. That give you enough time to figure out what you did wrong before queuing again.

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

If another player of the same role can join right afterwards, no one's getting screwed. Given that's an option in every DF-initiated duty, that's a non-argument. People waiting 5 seconds or a couple of minutes for someone to join doesn't screw anyone except people who think they're entitled to anyone else's time.

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Bailing wastes peoples time, even if it's minutes. The more people are allowed to do it the more of everyone's time it wastes. If leaving didn't screw over people they wouldn't punish it; they'd let people drop and requeue as much as they want.

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Leaving at the beginning doesn't waste anyone's time. You haven't even started the run, they didn't leave halfway during a pull or during a boss. It's the least intrusive way to leave a dungeon if you have to, for whatever reason. Would you rather them sabotage the run, because they we're forced to run the dungeon they didn't want to? Because there are miriad ways to do it, that don't scream "sabotaging a run".

And like I said earlier, harsher punishments will just hurt queues. People will just stop queuing for the "annoying" roulettes, if they can't use the functions the devs put there for that specific purpose (otherwise, they'd have disabled the button when running roulettes).

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Obviously you can't force people to stay, but you can punish them for leaving; which is what's happening. People who simply plan to bail not queuing any more would be a good thing for everyone. If you don't plan to bail then worse punishments are a complete non-issue for you.

I'm not sure that people bailing is a prevalent enough occurrence to warrant more punishment, but if people are leaving frequently because they feel like it then worse punishments are justified.

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

Except you can't mind read people to find out if they're playing poorly on purpose, or if they just have that skill level.

Same way with anyone who leaves a duty

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You can tell if a player is putting in effort, even if he's performing poorly.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

People get upset if you talk to them about their performance, because "it's just a game you elitist" so I propose the game automatically penalizes people who play under a certain threshold. If you are doing say, half the dps or less of the highest dps in the group, you get booted from the instance with an hour long penalty. That give you enough time to figure out what you did wrong before queuing again.

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Nah, you only punish people who queue up with the intention of screwing over their group. If the DPS is trying then they're clearly not intending to hurt the run, even if they are.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

they'd let people drop and requeue as much as they want.

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*Flashbacks to ARR Tanks/Healers instant withdrawl fishing for incomplete runs