OH GOD NO...

I'm fine with exploratory missions returning, but on two big conditions:

1. They really need to introduce whatever special mechanic/gimmick the content uses early. Logos actions in Pyros are a lot of fun, but I think Eureka as a whole would have been much more warmly received if these were made available as early as Anemos.

2. They need to introduce a way to sync your character down at will, to make it easier for players to help their friends catch up. I started in Eureka a lot earlier than most of my friends, and because I was usually 10+ levels higher than they were, there wasn't really anything we could work on together in the content. When a few of us are online and want to do stuff in FF14, we never consider Eureka, because the lack of a level sync meant we couldn't actually work on the same things.

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Originally Posted by Baxcel

Incorrect, you have a 100% chance of getting logograms from Sprites of your level or higher.. You also get upgraded logograms if the sprite mutates or adapts. Every sprite that gives you logos gives 5 of them and on chain of 10 you get 10.. 15 at 15 chain. 20 at 20.. 25 at 25 and 30 at 30.

The only one required for bunnies is offensive logos which i Havnt even gotten but I've already made it to the required 30 for my weapon.. I've out item leveled the armor which is only thing you need all 50 for.. But ill still probably get it since the logos are so easy to earn.

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Except when you are level 50 sprites of the same level are hard to find or only appear on certain wind conditions. Add to that the the whole time I was in Eureka Pyros I couldn't get a single party that was grinding on Sprites.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

You're probably doing something wrong if it cost you that much, while I got it for free in just 5 days. In fact, I made over 18 mil from the stuff I got there in those 5 days. But then again, it's like ARR and HW relics never cost any gil at all right? Not everyone has DoL/DoH classes all leveled up. So they will either grind for that (much worse than grinding for bunny fates) or buy the needed items from the MB.

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Yeah you got it for free in 5 days by grinding stupid bullshit off in the middle of nowhere. To that I say no thanks, I'll spend the 5 mil. I get that you probably only really spent 2-4 hours on it. I'd still rather spend the money than spend 2 hours or 1 hour just griding on trash in any context.

The rest of your post was 4 paragraphs that can all be summed up as, "well that RNG isn't relevant to you getting your glamour weapon and therefor it shouldn't matter" and to that I say you are wrong. It does matter. It is grating to have been in Pyros for 20ish hours and still not have gotten the yeti mount. The relic weapon may be the only reason I am in there, but every other aspect still affects my perception of the content.

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

1. 2. 3....

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There we go, now we have points that are actual issues with Eureka. I don't consider it to be a perfect content, so I should state that at first. As for points 2,4 and 5. I agree with you 100%. The EXP loss system is not something good for the casual player. I enjoy dark souls games but I know that not a lot of people would enjoy that kind of punishment in FF. So I agree that it shouldn't be there (although I know some that love it). The level syncing is something I've been asking for to be implemented for a long time. It would greatly help new players who wants to form a party. And being an instanced zone is also another thing I didn't like. I would have preferred it being an open world zone instead.

Now as for point 1. I really don't have anything to say about it since I'm the type that likes traveling more than just teleporting. But I wouldn't consider it a deal breaker for me if it wasn't. I can't say much what others think of this.
As for 3, if people are willing to farm dungeons for tomes, farm EX primals for 99times (someone did Suzaku for 524 times lol), and run A1s hundreds of times for light, then I wouldn't be surprised if the devs think they like it. The NM train that people came up with breathed more life in the content than chaining (Pagos was not a punishment lol). But let's ignore the NM train for now. The logos actions created another fun aspect while fighting mobs. Take a look at reflect parties where you can easily chain mobs 6 levels higher than you (and you can solo sprites very easily this way too). But hey, I wouldn't reject to them adding more fun content to do besides chaining as I suggested in another thread. Adding quests, for example, can be a good start for EXP and rewards.
For the soloing part, the content was designed as a group content (although there are ways to solo stuff). Many who liked Eureka liked it for this reason. People bashed out on BLU cuz it was said to be a solo content job.

Please, please, for the love of Zodiark SE, do not do this.
Don't take the forums or Reddit as proof. Their opinion on Eureka is not getting better because of changes made in Pyros. The ratio of praise to complaints is only getting higher because most of the playerbase is currently trying to forget that Eureka exists.
You *have* to have the real numbers on Eureka. *Have* to see how low the participation rate is. *Have* to see how many fewer people have these relics than HW's or ARR's.

I know that even if player opinion actually was unanimous, if more Eureka has been planned for Shadowbringers, it's far too late for it to not happen. But there's two things I beg:
1) If you absolutely have to tie the relic to Eureka - put in a second relic questline that never goes there! Or allow the Eureka pieces to be bought for obscene amounts of tomestones instead. I hate Eureka having destroyed my favorite solo content!
2) Prioritize other content with your resources! Make Eureka 5.0 basically re-use Eureka 4.0's maps and models, or whatever else would lower dev time. I know I'd much rather have 2 dungeons every patch - or another attempt at innovative content - or both! - than more Eureka...

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

Yeah you got it for free in 5 days by grinding stupid bullshit off in the middle of nowhere.

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Not really. I'm a fan of the NM train. And it was really fast to level up when you're in a party of 8 in the train. I remember shooting up in the levels when I was 48 and killing the moths to spawn Penny. Right now I deleveled myself to 48 again cuz of how quickly I can jump back to 50. That's where level syncing would have been a great addition to this content.

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

"well that RNG isn't relevant to you getting your glamour weapon and therefor it shouldn't matter"

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True, that is the basis of my argument. Since the majority of people here were saying "I wouldn't have done it if it wasn't for the relic weapon". And these other things that are in there are just like any other stuff locked behind RNG (deep dungeon loots, EX mounts, BLU actions etc.). So I wouldn't tie my perception of the content to them unless they affect my progression in them. For example BLU primal skills was mind numbingly annoying. Having to do one for more than 115 times to get the skill to drop so that I can use it in the carnival is the kind of RNG I would stand against.

Having made a big effort post on why I think Eureka is terrible, I may as well make an effort post on how I would fix it.

1. Don't apply the Eureka concept in an instance. The overworld of FF14 is gorgeous but you have very little reason to be out in it once you've done all the quests there. Overlaying Eureka into the overworld zones would be a solid way to breathe life back into the overworld. Grinding monsters under certain conditions to spawn overworld bosses is something already done for hunts. Slapping 10-20 new hunts into a zone applying similar spawn conditions but Eureka speed respawns doesn't strike me as impossible to implement.

2. Ditch elemental levels entirely. They don't really add anything interesting and nothing gives this way more than being able to toggle the elemental swaps automatically now. It's pretty much just another bar you fill and more or less only functions to block off travel options, which ideally I don't want blocked off to begin with. No exp loss either, obviously.

3. Loot boxes go from being a relatively common drop to being rare, let's say 1 every 30 minutes to an hour and they only contain the good stuff. No more opening dozens of lootboxes for fireworks and materia.

4. All of this good stuff is also purchasable via a currency you get for doing Eureka related things so that you will get it eventually even if RNG conspires against you. Same for monster specific drops.

5. I actually think Diadem 2.0 was a step in the right direction and I would like to see a return of the basic gameplay loop. An in zone npc that you can go to who will assign you some random tasks that culminates in a boss fight and takes about 15 minutes to complete and gives you some of that eureka currency and tomestones and maybe some other things like old map crafting materials. Or hell, old Eureka drops too since that content will probably be super dead come Shadowbringers. Can still use duty finder for this now, thanks to the world visit mechanic. Essentially a downtime filler like the bunny fates with more variety to it and a more pointed goal than to run off somewhere and chain grind monsters.

6. If you absolutely must have a bar to fill, make it a reputation bar, same as beast tribes. Can't unlock the mount for purchase until you grind the eureka rep out.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

Except when you are level 50 sprites of the same level are hard to find or only appear on certain wind conditions. Add to that the the whole time I was in Eureka Pyros I couldn't get a single party that was grinding on Sprites.

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Delevel yourself.. Once you have the mount ability unlocked you can't lose it, there's no reason to not delevel with the extreme amount of Exp you get per NM fate.. Also if you look for a map online you can see what weather an location the sprites spawn for your level.. And of course the weather effects the sprites its part of the whole elemental system being thrown out of wack for Eureka or did you skip all the story elements?

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

Not really. I'm a fan of the NM train. And it was really fast to level up when you're in a party of 8 in the train. I remember shooting up in the levels when I was 48 and killing the moths to spawn Penny. Right now I deleveled myself to 48 again cuz of how quickly I can jump back to 50. That's where level syncing would have been a great addition to this content.

True, that is the basis of my argument. Since the majority of people here were saying "I wouldn't have done it if it wasn't for the relic weapon". And these other things that are in there are just like any other stuff locked behind RNG (deep dungeon loots, EX mounts, BLU actions etc.). So I wouldn't tie my perception of the content to them unless they affect my progression in them. For example BLU primal skills was mind numbingly annoying. Having to do one for more than 115 times to get the skill to drop so that I can use it in the carnival is the kind of RNG I would stand against.

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To the first bit, there are logograms that only come from heated lockboxes and those only come with chaining some specific things that I don't remember because I said lol nope not doing that back when I was starting Pyros. Those are the ones I bought, and a couple others I just had some bad luck with. Probably wouldn't have been necessary but I wanted all 50 skills in case that somehow mattered in the future because you never know.

To the latter part, I don't farm ex primals, or deep dungeon and I have been shitting on blu since it's release for this exact reason.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

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Were you solo in the NM train? Cuz it's very easy to get full credit killing mobs when you're in a full party even by one hit if it was your party's target. It's easy to power level that way without it being a chore. This wasn't designed to be a solo content. That's why Pagos was more severe and punishing for solo gameplay, which we all agree was the worst one of all three (the dev team stated that they didn't take any feedback from Anemos into pagos. It was already completed before they could do anything). But when you talk about the logos actions I will disagree here. If they are such a chore, you wouldn't see the MB flooded with them. The only ones that are harder to get are offensive and mitigative ones which you need very little of (while you can get an abundance of them quite easily if killed some sprites at level 45 IIRC). And these actions gave us a good way to break from the traditional class role mold. Some of them even make soloing content very easy (like killing sprites with reflect).

Running dungeons to me seems far worse. You move the same linear path, same monsters and mechanics that you can sleep walk the entire dungeon. As for Eureka, if you're staying in the same spot for hours, you're doing something wrong. It's also more sociable in shout chat due to the number of players present (how an MMO should be). Not just running the same dungeon for 20 times while being silent.