Would you be ok with no new tank or healer in 5.0?

I'd be fine with no new jobs at all.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

This is something to consider. A new healer would mean that they have to work harder to differentiate the healers and make them unique. Right now, every healer can do pretty much everything without any drawbacks (with the exception of WHM and aoe mitigation). Perhaps a new healer will help them realize that the current ones are just too solid for their own good.

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I mentioned this in one of the many myriad of healer threads but what I'm hoping for, if S-E remains dead set on this "main healer" and "mitigation healer", I am hoping that the injection of a fourth healer would mean we have two clearly defined "man healers" and two "mitigation healers" so healers are balanced between two instead of three. Bonus points to S-E if they can make a particular pair of main healer and mitigation healer compliments each other well, and the remaining pair also compliments each other well so there are some natural synergies to work with.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

If they add new classes then the communtiy better grow a pair and accept blame if it throws things further out of balance. Blame SE for the current classes not being balance but dont blame them if new classes added at your request make it worse..

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1. SE are staffed by big boys and girls who should know how to accomplish what they get paid to do- we can absolutely blame them if healers are still imbalanced on the cusp of a new expansion.
2. We have every right to call foul if they decide to not add healer/tank jobs due to the same imbalances that they claimed mea culpa for before SB launched over two years ago.
3. We all know by now that SE does not take fan requests seriously unless the staff feels they can manage it, so if they take on the task of adding new class options and can't balance around them, then they probably should find new day jobs.
4. Why in the world are players not allowed to complain if SE mucks it all up and lets us down? They're a major game company with the resources to float the #2 MMO in the world- I have no pity if they can't even match f2p titles when they charge a sub + buying the game at a minimum.

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Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

1. SE are staffed by big boys and girls who should know how to accomplish what they get paid to do- we can absolutely blame them if healers are still imbalanced on the cusp of a new expansion.
2. We have every right to call foul if they decide to not add healer/tank jobs due to the same imbalances that they claimed mea culpa for before SB launched over two years ago.
3. We all know by now that SE does not take fan requests seriously unless the staff feels they can manage it, so if they take on the task of adding new class options and can't balance around them, then they probably should find new day jobs.
4. Why in the world are players not allowed to complain if SE mucks it all up and lets us down? They're a major game company with the resources to float the #2 MMO in the world- I have no pity if they can't even match f2p titles when they charge a sub + buying the game at a minimum.

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Community is also big boys and girls who know balance is off and is asking for something they know may throw it off further. Balance is a open wound and your asking them to dump lemon juice: new classes on it knowing it may hurt. When it does hurt you turn around and scream at them for dumping juice on the wound when you asked them too. They can't seem to solve the balance issue but its ok lets make it worse and add new classes..

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Community is also big boys and girls who know balance is off and is asking for something they know may throw it off further. Balance is a open wound and your asking them to dump lemon juice: new classes on it knowing it may hurt. When it does hurt you turn around and scream at them for dumping juice on the wound when you asked them too. They can't seem to solve the balance issue but its ok lets make it worse and add new classes..

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Gee it sure would be great if they worked on an expansion that didn't include any tanks or healers for the sake of balancing the ones we do have. Oh...

Look how well that turned out? Do we go 2 expansions of no new healers and tanks? 3? 4? When do we expect this "balance" you speak of? To be fair the balancing is better than it was but DRK and WHM still need a looking at but it isn't as doom and gloom as you speak of. They just need to dig themselves out of this hole they've dug when it comes to mitigation and raw healing which again is something they've had years to solve.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Also [balancing the ratio of jobs] has been proven to be wrong. ARR had 2 tanks for example. and comprised something like 16% of the player pool.
HW added dark night and tanks still only made up something like 16% of the player pool.

adding dark didnt magically mean more people playing tanks. it just meant the number of people playing tanks was split across 3 jobs and not 2. but the number of tanks in circulation remained largely the same..

yoshi published some numbers on this in one of the live letters when he was explaining why they werent adding a tank in 4.0.

they could add 10 shiny new tanks in 5.0 but the number of people playing tanks would still be exactly the same

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What is the 16% stat based on though? People playing tank in any instance in the game? Leveling? Endgame? People who would say on a poll that they choose to play tank?

I'm thinking in terms of people leveling all their classes over time. I don't consider myself a tank player, but I've leveled all my classes. I've had to run enough roulettes to level my tank classes - and my healers, and a lot to level my DPS. Because there are more of them and they get less EXP per roulette without the 'in need' bonus.

I don't know what proportion of players do level everything versus sticking with one or two classes, but for every person that does it, the ratio of time spent playing the different classes is inherently skewed to needing more time spent as a DPS.

When I get my tanks to max level, I stop playing them. Give me an additional tank class and I will spend more time playing tank.

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Originally Posted by Mesarthim

Gee it sure would be great if they worked on an expansion that didn't include any tanks or healers for the sake of balancing the ones we do have. Oh...

Look how well that turned out? Do we go 2 expansions of no new healers and tanks? 3? 4? When do we expect this "balance" you speak of? To be fair the balancing is better than it was but DRK and WHM still need a looking at but it isn't as doom and gloom as you speak of. They just need to dig themselves out of this hole they've dug when it comes to mitigation and raw healing which again is something they've had years to solve.

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How can they dig themselves out when people are asking for them to dig deeper? Or do you consider them adding new classes digging themselves out? Never spoke of doom and gloom either just pointing out the hypocritical nature present in the thread. Can spin it however you want, there is no escaping that you are asking them to increase balancing difficulty by adding more classes.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

How can they dig themselves out when people are asking for them to dig deeper? Or do you consider them adding new classes digging themselves out? Never spoke of doom and gloom either just pointing out the hypocritical nature present in the thread. Can spin it however you want, there is no escaping that you are asking them to increase balancing difficulty by adding more classes.

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To which I say: if they can't balance the jobs, they don't deserve thier jobs. Also you are making a very wrong-headed assumption in that SE dev team will bend over backwards to accommodate player demand to the detriment of the game as a whole. This is definitely not the case or else we would have houses for everyone, super customizable character appearances, unlimited inventory, a much more robust glamour system, etc. ...

SE will introduce what they feel the game needs and they are capable of balancing. They certainly don't need you to pre-emptively defend them from hypothetical backlash because some players want nice things despite some imbalance in the game's current state. There will always be cries of IMBA and BETTER BUFF WAR/SCH, those types of complaints won't stop any competent developer from adding more variety.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

How can they dig themselves out when people are asking for them to dig deeper? Or do you consider them adding new classes digging themselves out? Never spoke of doom and gloom either just pointing out the hypocritical nature present in the thread. Can spin it however you want, there is no escaping that you are asking them to increase balancing difficulty by adding more classes.

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You can spin it however you want too. See? I can say that too! They've had YEARS to fix this nonsense for the classes that currently exist. One could say there's been balance problems since as far back as 2.0. They still added ninja, dark knight, machinist, astrologian, samurai and red mage.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

Blue Mage would be more "hype" than Gunblade.

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Not really when Squall and Lightning exist